Nasty Healer Tricks.

[Brevis]

Well back in my lvling days, I would do my best to protect the healers/shammies, but I dont think you handled it the best way like that.

If a mob adds I let the tanks deal with it and stay on main mob, if i see the healer/shammie getting aggro i move from main mob to the the one bashing the healers head in, one swing with the taunt style, back to main mob after that one swing to collect the aggro.
Then the healer has a choice because any rogue can take 2-3 hits from a red/purp (or there about).
Mezz it (if the rogue continues to beat away at the mob trying to solo it, its pointless and letting him die is the only way to learn him how to fight in a grp)
The other choice is just letting the rogue get beaten to death, which in my opinion is a bit of a stupid thing to do. I can understand it if there is no other way (resisted mezz etc) but not even trying is a poor performance.

 

[old.Ayam Ganbatte]

Originally posted by old.Blood|Prydwen


You sir, are a twat!

Thanks Blood, I've always felt mutually the same about 90% of stealthers. The most spoilt people tend to play them. On personality alone that's got to merit the first justifiable death.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Fingoniel basicly asked the mainquestion here. And the one i was going for. I play like i play and i was asking what others might do. Perhpas the tanks didn't move, perhaps the hunter didn't stay on the mainmob like he should but in any case, it's all about what is your choice.

I didn't intend this to become "Hmm, now there's a fight, let's analyze!" and i noticed, now that i looked at the initial post that it might have looked like it. I jsut gave an example but in a poorly worded way.

Just to say in my defense that it was a close fight anyway since it was a rather new group to the whole game, a level 5 warrior with no protect, and such. Can't be reall judged but anyways, i saved the rest.

 

[Fafnir]

Seen it many times, Tanks with protect but dont use it, healer draw aggro fast. Rorhan a little kobbie warrior knows how it works. Protect on healer and if he is only tank he put guard on the next one that pulls most aggro. Was my sb in this case. But thoose runies, sm's that like to nuke away like they do, are dam hard to peel of, once they get aggro. And like a great sm of our realm said in another thread they get 2 hits at lvl 50

 

[old.Trine Aquavit]

Personally, I heal whoever I can as best I can. I'd probably try to mez as soon as the add aggroed, a failed mez doesn't generate much aggro, the tanks are more likely to peel from me than the hunter, and I can take a fair bit more damage than a hunter. Once the tanks have aggro I'd try to re-mez.

Of course if it all goes tits up then I'm the first to start legging it

 

[old.Tohtori]

One thing i forgot to clear up.

The add didn't mean that two mobs came with one pull, it just came out of the blue. Anothing aggro might be appropriate wording.

 

[old.tRoG]

i would rather let one die and let the rest live than sacrafice the whole group.

at least then you only have one person CHANTING 'FFS OMG j00 fukking n00b! HEAL MEH!!! FSS!!!! OMG OMG!!!!!!!'

 

[Damon_D]

Only one's I dont heal are SB's who again and again stand so they take first hit, even after been told to stop it, and low hp / defense peopel who grab agro again and again causing me to burn all my power for no good reason. i will tell peopel to stop it 2 times , and then I'll let them die.. hoping that will teach them.. if it dossent.. I'll either kick them , or tell the group I'll leave if its not stop'd

 

[Tealeaf]

Hmm, given the monster involved, maybe other factors were at play here.

Fressen sits on a boat far away from other monsters except for Trolki, his companion, who just happens to drop a nice one-time drop hammer, the Red Bludgeoner.

If not done properly, Fressen will always add when Trolki is attacked.

So I'm just wondering, how did your group members get so close to aggro them (which is kinda dumb), or were you there for the hammer and perhaps when things went bad decided to sacrifice a group member so you could still get it?

I mean to say, Nalliten is so close it is damn easy for the whole group to sprint there and have the guards deal with Fressen. Sure, you lose a little time as a group, but much less than an individual who loses exp.

Of course, I wasn't there so I don't know exactly what happened, but without the details (and the other players' sides of the story) it sounds a bit dubious.

 

[-dewey-]

Thanks Blood, I've always felt mutually the same about 90% of stealthers. The most spoilt people tend to play them. On personality alone that's got to merit the first justifiable death.

Wow, you just made an idiot of yourself with such a stupidly unjustified statement......

 

[old.Patrick-S]

Originally posted by old.Ayam Ganbatte

Thanks Blood, I've always felt mutually the same about 90% of stealthers. The most spoilt people tend to play them. On personality alone that's got to merit the first justifiable death.

lol i hope thats a joke and what are you on about 'spoilt' people ? dunno bout everyone else but i only made a nightshade cos i was told hib needed them are you a descriminatory about age gender and race as well?

 

[Meatballs]

Originally posted by Runolaz

You sure he wouldn't use detaunt, and the tanks use taunt?

hitting a mob even with detaunt is a silly thing to do if its a fresh undamaged mob. one swing from a tank and aggro would be transferred.


moral: blame the crap tanks.

 

[old.Normengast]

Just fight as good as you can, try to save everyone, and if you get a wipeout in the end, you can always blame the hunter

Honest, just kidding.

I don't understand why people complain so much about dying. If it happens three times in five minutes, then I can understand.

 

[Damon_D]

Originally posted by fl3a
well, as my shammy i usually try to save everyone who needs saving. usually a friggs might do (if the tanks manage to get aggro off the hunter) to get the hunter back to full hp.

i have even tried getting aggro off the lower hp members by just melee (considering that a troll shammy has quite a lot of hp + chain + the ability to block shots). though it is usable in these situations when the first mob is low on hp (so that only a few more hits will finish it off), it still might save someone.

basically, when i am the main healer (although a cave shammy), and as usual the grp leader (even if i came last i tend to take over leading) i follow these rules:

healer must live at all costs
noone gets left behind (which means unless they want to, i wont tell anyone to 'go and sacrifice yourself for our good!')

even with my warrior i follow these rules. maybe i am such a lowbie cuz i dont care if do i die or not, i just wanna save everyone.

Much like i play all my chars..if im not the only rezzer , i'm usaly the one hitting several mob and dying , to get the rezzer an escape option..I dont like to let peopel die.. except if they act silly again and again as statet in my above post. Iplay both a healer and a shammy.. and both has tool's to let other peopels escape if they choose.. the healer his mezzes and his insta agro magnets.. ehh I meen group heals.. the shammy has castable version.. even thoo low agro maker combined with aoe root and if that fails aoe dot.. I usaly can focus a bad pull on me and let another seer get away..I'f im the olny one.I'll try to aoe root and then leg it to rezz the fallen..I't might not be the bestt thing..but its better than /release anyday

 

[Slinker]

Tealeaf , he said the warriors were like lvl 5 , no way could they be going for the bludgeoner , lvl 10 otd iirc been a long time since I did it , but yeah , why where they so close to uber Fressen at lvl 5

 

[kayless]

Well, the way I play is this.. I see it as my job and I'd like to think ppl appreciate this, that I'll do my hardest to keep all members of a group alive. If someone dies on my shift I view it as a failure on my part, most of the time.

In this case I would have healed the guy, an extra set of damage on the mob and it goes down quicker, if I was OOP I woulda sat and threw back in the little heals over time, then, If I was the only rezzer, maybe ran with the rest

If there's another healer in the group I would've burn an insta on him, EVEN if he's 'only a hunter' Usually instas are a one way ticket for me but I'd glady take a dirt nap for the team. I see it as part of my job <shrugs>

But, like some1 else said we don't know the whole story If you've been telling a guy to stop getting aggro and buring POW on him maybe I'd change my tactics, hehe

 

[old.moriath]

Originally posted by old.Ayam Ganbatte

Thanks Blood, I've always felt mutually the same about 90% of stealthers. The most spoilt people tend to play them. On personality alone that's got to merit the first justifiable death.

OMG Ayam .. I always thought you were a nice bloke .. but to make a statement like that ... DOH!!

I think anyone who has played a rogue will tell you how hard it is to get groups and to lvl it. Spend hours firing arrows at oracles in ygg cause you can't get a group anywhere.

I think to get a hunter to 50 .. ( unless you have a guild pl you) means that you know that char inside out.. how not to take agro (cause you know 90% of the time the healers not gonna be able to save you).

It took me 43 days played to get my hunter to 50 and a lot of that is to do with the attitude ppl like you spread around the game so we find it really hard to get groups.

I think next time you should think a bit before you start typing.

And as for healing ... damn remember its a game and everyone is out to have fun. To constantly pick the rogue as the sacrificial lamb in your group is not just letting a char die .. but making someones night a little less fun. So consider the people and not just you exp/hour.

Damn i think some people need a reality check sometimes.

 

[old.Ayam Ganbatte]

Originally posted by old.moriath
I think next time you should think a bit before you start typing.

I did, then I remembered this is Barrysworld!

Doesn't change the fact that a high proportion of stealthers I've met have been literally spoilt to the teeth so I stick by my generalisation quite stubbornly.

And as for the fellow who wondered if I discriminate on age and sex, yes I do, my fetish for 90 year old women means I treat the rest of you like idiots.

 

[Archeon]

Healers as a class are faced with a fairly challenging role...

We decide who lives and dies in a group, this is especially tough when your the only healer in an 8 person group and you get a super-shitty pull.

In all honesty i don't like it when you pick one over the other based on the grounds that he was a stealther class, at the same time i can respect that as a low lvl healer you don't have many options open to you (No Insta heals, no MCL, no group heal?).

I feel that if you have the time to think in that sort of situation then it really isn't that bad, there have been times in lair when i've totally fucked up the mezzing and G insta'd on purpose so i can draw the aggro off low HP classes (lets be honest, with Con, Str/con buffs my HP is lvl with a hybrid tank quite easily) and then prayed to god my G2 counterpart lands an amnesia


Still it was your judgement call, and yours along. for people to flame the way you go about doing things is wrong because unless they have been in exactly the same position they really can't make a just comment

 

[old.Normengast]

He asked for our opinion, not for a verdict.

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by Archeon
<snip>
there have been times in lair when i've totally fucked up the mezzing and G insta'd on purpose so i can draw the aggro off low HP classes (lets be honest, with Con, Str/con buffs my HP is lvl with a hybrid tank quite easily) and then prayed to god my G2 counterpart lands an amnesia
<snip>

hmmmmm.

I'll ignore any advice from a healer who does that, if you don't mind

 

[old.moriath]

Originally posted by old.Ayam Ganbatte

I did, then I remembered this is Barrysworld!

Doesn't change the fact that a high proportion of stealthers I've met have been literally spoilt to the teeth so I stick by my generalisation quite stubbornly.

And as for the fellow who wondered if I discriminate on age and sex, yes I do, my fetish for 90 year old women means I treat the rest of you like idiots.

Define spoilt .. you mean the people behind them in real life or spoiled as a class.

if its point one how can you possibly tell (I agree some of them have an elitist attitude, mainly the ones who reached 50 in a couple of months from release and then proceeded to gain x million rp before the nerf bat struck. But i only know a couple here still that fall into that category) and point two I will refer you to the nerf bat that hunters as a class have been hit with pretty much every patch in one way or another.

Also i think if you get a rogue to lvl 50 you can be justified in feeling proud of your achievement because as i stated before they are the hardest class's to lvl in the game.

And i know some nice SB's too ... don't judge everyone by the Azal's of this world.

 

[old.chesnor]

Healers and assassins/hunters. Two opposite ends of the spectrum. When you choose that class at lvl5, you are basically saying as a healer "I want to keep people alive". As a archer/assassin you are saying "I want to kill people."

Basically those 2 classes can do little else. The reason I sympathise with Ayam is because I have been whined at by rogue classes more than anyone else in this game, by a long way. I know how hard it is for you guys to lvl to 50. But you made the choice. You rolled a class with absolutely ZERO utility for groups, low hp, crap armour but high dmg output. It is obvious you will die first in a group. Most people won't let the healers die, otherwise that = no healing. Most people won't let the casters die, otherwise that = no PBT or CC. Noone wants to see the tanks drop dead = no meat shield. What impact does it have on the group if the asassin/archer dies. None.

People don't let archers/assassins die deliberately, but people who play those classes must realise that they are generally the least important group member in terms of utilty. When did you last join a group that was saying "you know, we really need a hunter, then the group would be perfect".

Archers/asassins are rolled with 1 object in mid. To gank people in RvR. They are daocs premium selfish class. they offer nothing to anyone else except the person behind the keyboard. About as different to playing a healer as you can possibly get. This is why I agree with Ayam, just....

 

[Gabrial]

I got a 37 cleric, a 21 scout, used to have a 24 infiltrator and a 24 wizard aswell. Also got a 27 armsman, 22 paladin so I got a fairly good idea of how different classes work together.

What people are saying is correct - the stealth classes are insanely difficult to level without help (well, someone is bound to disagree here but I think they are) To say they are spoilt is, well, wierd. I'm guessing you mean they are spoilt in so much that they are alts of high level characters and wander wound the BG with glowing weapons?

However, clerics often have it rough aswell. I've stopped playing mine now for a while after getting abuse for not healing people in a couple of groups. i've already posted about it elsewhere - i had basically taken agro so could'nt heal. This got me flamed. Not my fault and I actually died shortly after.

Clerics do have to make tough choices sometimes but often mine are based on who has the aggro, not what class they are. Also depends on my available POW, the HPS remaining on each mob in combat, what other people are doing, which mobs are mezzed, how much POW the wizards have, do I have my instas, is anyone else nearby that could help etc. If i see another rezzer nearby i will go down with the team.

Anyway, Im rambling

 

[Gabrial]

Originally posted by old.chesnor
Healers and assassins/hunters. Two opposite ends of the spectrum. When you choose that class at lvl5, you are basically saying as a healer "I want to keep people alive". As a archer/assassin you are saying "I want to kill people."

Archers/asassins are rolled with 1 object in mid. To gank people in RvR. They are daocs premium selfish class. they offer nothing to anyone else except the person behind the keyboard. About as different to playing a healer as you can possibly get. This is why I agree with Ayam, just....

Cant agree here sorry

I've played my infiltrator in BG (true, not real RvR but never-the-less) and I would as often as not defend other players (e.g. casters, lone tanks resting, healers etc) rather than go off farming RPs. Maybe its just me but I like the company and the thanks I get for protecting them from other stealthers more than the few rps I could gain solo.

I know RvR would be different though

 

[old.chesnor]

I am sure asassins protect casters & healer in the battlegrounds, and "real" RvR. I know I did with my infiltrator. But that wasn;t the reason I rolled my infiltrator. I rolled my infiltrator because I could turn invisible and kill enemy mages in 1 hit.

If you want to play a class whose job it is to protect healers & caster, roll a s&b tank. They do the job faaaaaar better than asassins.

 

[old.Tohtori]

A few answers to few questions:

A: Don't know where the hell Fressen did come from, we were killing spindly crabs near him but nowhere that near.

B: Not saying i always let the hunter go, this just happened to be an incident where the hunter did get the aggro.

C: Running to Nalliten would have been an option but with Fressens root/mez/dom still atleast one would've died.

D: Yes, hunters/sb's are rather pissy. Not all but some, dunno why and not saying in general here. I repeat, not all but most. Sorry but it's a fact. PIssy people in all classes but usually in stealther.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by old.Tohtori

D: Yes, hunters/sb's are rather pissy. Not all but some, dunno why and not saying in general here. I repeat, not all but most. Sorry but it's a fact. PIssy people in all classes but usually in stealther.

Depending on the age of the character... old old SBs probably are nicer people than the latest crop, older Hunters will be less likely to be nice blokes than the ones being rolled now...

Glory-seekers are rather pissy

 

[old.Tohtori]

True, true. I know a lot of hunters/sb's that are actually friendly

Must be the first impression of über that strikes some.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Going back to the original topic...

Agro from high con mobs is always a tricky one: no 2 situations are exactly the same.

If I'm playing as shammy: root it, con no object. That git that DARED hit one of da team is going down. A DoT with best wishes usually soon follows. If a healer, SM or skald is present, I wait to see if they mez. (Skald best, though short its insta and buys time for a longer lasting cc option or buys just that little time the group needs and lets face it, there isn't a shortage of skalds in Midgard)

However, all of these are just delaying tactics to buy time. In the end the tanks must peel. No peeler, dead group, its a matter of time.

I feel sorry for a low level group with new players in it, they don't know a lot of the things you can do and support chars don't always have the wide range of abilities that come at higher levels.

Rogue types that can't avoid getting agro (UNLESS the mobs are going down so fast they don't have time to damage rogues) are the enemy of all seers and groups that want to level. However, I've met very few that fall into this category. Tip: take buffs off rogues if they are getting agro. My shammy swaps the ones they want for the ones that keep them alive quite ruthlessly in xp groups.

A hunter that takes on a purple con willingly to buy the group time gets respect because he should know he was due to be face down very soon. If he didn't know, then he's on the learning curve we all go on and just found some of the limitations of his character. If he then abuses the seer... muppet.

I couldn't be ruthless enough to disband someone, though I've seen people do it to save the group and I've done it myself on occasions EDIT: I mean disband myself from the group. I've rarely had to make a decision who lives and dies in xp groups. However, the primary tank gets the most urgent and constant attention at all times because in conjuction with the seer(s), this person will keep the group alive alongest.

I'd also hesitate to criticise someone for reacting to a situation where you have precious few seconds to decide how to save the group. You don't always make the best choice, but its better to do something than have a wipeout.