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ab_fluid
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- #61
and i was being totally serious.....
and i was being totally serious.....
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chrstffr
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- #62
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Freppe^^
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- #63
Hotrats, you clearly see on the movie, their dmg wasnt enough, cus they got interupted pretty much, 1 chanter moc'ed u say? Still your healers didnt do much.
It looked like when the dude whos on screen moc'ed, the chanters had allready moc'ed, and had a few sec left of it. As you might notice, they started pbaeing, the healer on the screen healed once in his moc, then started dding. Basicly, hes fault your guy died. Otherwise none of you would be dead for sure. After their moc, or the chanter that moc'ed, they were pretty much screwed yes. They just stood there, waiting together to be able to qc and possibly get one down. And so they did, cus once again, your healers are doing nothing, running around doing other stuff. Sure its gr8 that he tries running around interupting em, but its him to blame for lossing 2 ppl in that fight.
Basicly all i wanted to say from start, was that it was pretty cheap, to use SoS like that. Tbh, you allways do that, try fighting without it, and show em that your not in any need of them RA's then. Like for sure hibs are, at least pbae grps.
And no hotrats, i dont have a film of it, but remember telling Wot-do directly as it happend, perhaps got logs left of it. Was amazing, so easy. And yes puppet, rr5+ is kinda cool, but it isnt cool for a rr5+ grp to wtfpwn a rr7+ hib pbae grp. Thats just utter bs. Sure, perhaps we played so good that they didnt have a chance at all. But in this movie, you didnt play at your best, and in no way, should you kill em that easy. Which it was.
Anyways once again this is just my personal opinion.
It looked like when the dude whos on screen moc'ed, the chanters had allready moc'ed, and had a few sec left of it. As you might notice, they started pbaeing, the healer on the screen healed once in his moc, then started dding. Basicly, hes fault your guy died. Otherwise none of you would be dead for sure. After their moc, or the chanter that moc'ed, they were pretty much screwed yes. They just stood there, waiting together to be able to qc and possibly get one down. And so they did, cus once again, your healers are doing nothing, running around doing other stuff. Sure its gr8 that he tries running around interupting em, but its him to blame for lossing 2 ppl in that fight.
Basicly all i wanted to say from start, was that it was pretty cheap, to use SoS like that. Tbh, you allways do that, try fighting without it, and show em that your not in any need of them RA's then. Like for sure hibs are, at least pbae grps.
And no hotrats, i dont have a film of it, but remember telling Wot-do directly as it happend, perhaps got logs left of it. Was amazing, so easy. And yes puppet, rr5+ is kinda cool, but it isnt cool for a rr5+ grp to wtfpwn a rr7+ hib pbae grp. Thats just utter bs. Sure, perhaps we played so good that they didnt have a chance at all. But in this movie, you didnt play at your best, and in no way, should you kill em that easy. Which it was.
Anyways once again this is just my personal opinion.
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Freppe^^
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- #64
And no, a chanter cant drop any class in 5 sec. Ive played alot with mine before and had 3 rr7+ ones assisting on mid healers, you think they died? No they didnt. Instead mostly we got pwned.
Anyways, chanters aint that good as ppl think they are, they pretty much utter crap.
Anyways, chanters aint that good as ppl think they are, they pretty much utter crap.
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Freppe^^
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- #65
Originally posted by hotrat
Finally if exc albs are that bad how did we manage to beat NP in a alb caster group with a few low rr players, when they are in their top notch rr9+ group (sorry NP I couldnt resist)
And how many times have they won against you? You're counting one win against em, while they have 10000 against you. Sure, we did beat NP's fotm grp pre 1.62 with 7 players. Luck, yes. Ppl play bad from time to time, even them? Yes. Just bragging from your part imo, wonder how it would be if they would brag on every fg grp they pwned. Gjeez, whole forum would be full.
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Stallion-
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- #66
dude this has nothing to do with you, but about what you wrote. wich I think is so naive.
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Freppe^^
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- #67
Try writing your opinion instead then, instead of some +1 post. Thx.
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Stallion-
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Ehm whats the problem with SoSing in the beginning? Mindrat got a smaller amouth of them mezzed, Medicca insta rooted FC/BF.. Sos both to get away from incomming bard mezz & get a overhand in the beginning, SoS dosent have to be used as a defensive way but in an offensive one.
So hibs never use GP you mean?
Well RAs arent supposed to be anytime buttons, sure its maybe unlucky, but it might have won them the fight b4 this 1?
I think those good grps out there usaly balance their ways of using RAs.But anyway you cant whine about RAs beeing down, cuz now your just saying 2 things that are totaly against each "Seriously, ive seen lotsa movies, its like albs record movies when they got all their RA's up or whatever, cus otherwise they would get mezzed and pwned." and then stating that Knuddens MoC was down..that sure hell is an RA aswell.
Dont know about the bard rly, Grizlas is pretty even I think, About the casters you have Firestone rr8, Vylette rr6+ and her Boyfriend!!! Lafe.. id say any caster combo sitting on LAN > 2 super high rr chars sitting on distance (might be wrong)
Dunno what movies your refering to. This is one of the few from a clerics point of view.. and Id say Noretn did a damn good work
:great: Lafe didnt have moc , stil you have 2 that have, and afaik with 3 pbers in a grp you rarly use all mocs at once
1 is enough when its needed..depending on situation ofc but here it seemed like it did.lets say none has moc up, you have 3 pets.. 2 druids, 1 chanter, Vylette has dps debuff. Thats 4 targets interrupted.. thing is why you would have to moc would be #1 if sorc/minstrel was free & keep chain/mezz rooting for interrupts. Sorc is kinda easy to disable, #2 would maybe be if all had a tank on themselfes,wich means they wouldnt have assisted.. aslong as you got those ae interrupters under control, moc aint needed afaik.. in 8v8 perspective.. 1 caster have the tank train on them, 2 are free, even 1 is enough to deal some serious damage & get the tanks to back of for a while.
And now once again you say that MoC wasent up, or you didnt have moc.. when you 1 post ago blamed albs for just recording movies when their RAs was up..
im sure you could say that about all realms..if hibs play crap ofc your right.. and thats always the case?
a good guarder can keep your casters alive a long time even if their interrupted.. use pets & debuffs/root osv to lose the ae spamming & moc aint needed. MoC is nice ofc, but as you said having to pwn cuz an RA is ? skilled?
ehm? basicly what your saying is, get a better bard and you wont need GP, get some better playstyle and dont use Moc... RAs are meant to help.. just cuz u dont know what to do when they sos, dosent mean its overpowered.. hib pbae boxes were impossibe to break thru til mids now started to use an extra healer for amnesia spam..beats moc..
adapt.. Not sure how, but sos has never been a problem in my eyes, just some nice utility.
Maybe not their best, but it was enough, and it wasent easy afaik, was asemi long fight with lots of RAs used
sure we can
if u had 4 chanters assting you, once the debuff went off theres no healer left..so might have been your assisting/interrupting rather then a chanter issue..
Chanters are a verry powerful tool at range, thats why you use em combined with elds.. quickly taking out ranged targets.. and having pbae
its you playing the class not the class itself its you who make your class. Im sure some animist could wtfPWN blabla.. and what do ppl think about animists except in pve & large/keep fights?
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Freppe^^
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- #69
Originally posted by Stallion-
Ehm whats the problem with SoSing in the beginning? Mindrat got a smaller amouth of them mezzed, Medicca insta rooted FC/BF.. Sos both to get away from incomming bard mezz & get a overhand in the beginning, SoS dosent have to be used as a defensive way but in an offensive one.
So hibs never use GP you mean?
Well RAs arent supposed to be anytime buttons, sure its maybe unlucky, but it might have won them the fight b4 this 1?
But anyway you cant whine about RAs beeing down, cuz now your just saying 2 things that are totaly against each "Seriously, ive seen lotsa movies, its like albs record movies when they got all their RA's up or whatever, cus otherwise they would get mezzed and pwned." and then stating that Knuddens MoC was down..that sure hell is an RA aswell.
Dont know about the bard rly, Grizlas is pretty even I think, About the casters you have Firestone rr8, Vylette rr6+ and her Boyfriend!!! Lafe.. id say any caster combo sitting on LAN > 2 super high rr chars sitting on distance (might be wrong)
Dunno what movies your refering to. This is one of the few from a clerics point of view.. and Id say Noretn did a damn good work
Lafe didnt have moc , stil you have 2 that have, and afaik with 3 pbers in a grp you rarly use all mocs at once
lets say none has moc up, you have 3 pets.. 2 druids, 1 chanter, Vylette has dps debuff. Thats 4 targets interrupted.. thing is why you would have to moc would be #1 if sorc/minstrel was free & keep chain/mezz rooting for interrupts. Sorc is kinda easy to disable, #2 would maybe be if all had a tank on themselfes,wich means they wouldnt have assisted.. aslong as you got those ae interrupters under control, moc aint needed afaik.. in 8v8 perspective.. 1 caster have the tank train on them, 2 are free, even 1 is enough to deal some serious damage & get the tanks to back of for a while.
And now once again you say that MoC wasent up, or you didnt have moc.. when you 1 post ago blamed albs for just recording movies when their RAs was up..
im sure you could say that about all realms..if hibs play crap ofc your right.. and thats always the case?
a good guarder can keep your casters alive a long time even if their interrupted.. use pets & debuffs/root osv to lose the ae spamming & moc aint needed. MoC is nice ofc, but as you said having to pwn cuz an RA is ? skilled?
ehm? basicly what your saying is, get a better bard and you wont need GP, get some better playstyle and dont use Moc... RAs are meant to help.. just cuz u dont know what to do when they sos, dosent mean its overpowered.. hib pbae boxes were impossibe to break thru til mids now started to use an extra healer for amnesia spam..beats moc..
Not sure how, but sos has never been a problem in my eyes, just some nice utility.
Maybe not their best, but it was enough, and it wasent easy afaik, was asemi long fight with lots of RAs used
sure we can
if u had 4 chanters assting you, once the debuff went off theres no healer left..so might have been your assisting/interrupting rather then a chanter issue..
Chanters are a verry powerful tool at range, thats why you use em combined with elds.. quickly taking out ranged targets.. and having pbae
As i said, i thought it was cheap, to use SoS like that. Mindrat got them mezzed, cus they used SoS. Since the cleric runs away from fight you cant really say if the bard woulda won mezz or not. Thats the thing, i feel that SoS is just a lets say, i-win-mezz-button or whatever.
And medicca only insta rooted one, single target root, otherwise you shoulda seen the GFX on the cleric. If he did ae insta that is.
Hibs, pbae style fgs, are really in need of RA's in fights like that imo, without Moc, theyre nothing. Which albs are not according to puppet, therefore i felt like its a cheap thing to do. Fight em fair and square instead.
Wasnt any rr8 there, was before but nm doesnt matter.
A good guarder like the one on the screen, still cant do anything. You'll still get heavy interupted and wont be able to do pretty much in a fight.
And stajj, we've tried that on healers before, was me with squark, rr7l4 them, lokiana rr7 and i think it was aeleea. All assiting on one healer, You wont be able to do that amount of dmg fast since their other healers, will still be able to heal more than you do as dmg.
Anyways, good thing that you posted your opinion, im going now tho, keep on replying and possibly i can reply tonite.
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hotrat
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- #70
Ok well SoS is not very deadly at all in a mage group, its only use is maybe if you get jumped and a lot of casters have purge down so the minstrel purges + SoS so you can run around till mezz runs out the reform the pbae box.
BoF and MoC both nice of course.
The trouble is albs have so few useful RA's for fighting against hib pbae groups, SoS has limited use, good if tanks get slammed in the box, pets will still keep up with support though cus of gay bugs. BoF is useless, the only really good RA is MoC on sorc and clerics, I used my MoC at the very start of the fight to chain ae root the hib pbae box. Only reason I had to use it was the 2 or 3 pets on me.
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hotrat
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- #71
I got all of em mezzed at the start fyi, Medicca isnta rooted just before my mezz landed, then one of the druids hit GP almost right away. By the time the bard lost the interupt timer from my mezz so he could cast his own, our group would have been well and truely split, even without SoS.
Also your point about being able to interupt 4 alb classes with pets and dps debuff is very true, BUT both are bugs in this damn bugged game, if dps debuff didnt interupt and pets didnt get perma speed you would lose all your cheap interupts and things would be a lot lot harder. Atm hib pbae groups are very hard for alb tank groups and I cant understand how Freppe doesn't see it.
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ab_fluid
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- #72
erm, they got like more than mids do? sos is very nice vs pbaoe grps 30 secs of speed 5 rocks wherever you are, BoF not great thats true, but thats like baod vs a tank grp.. you got moc, like you said. Also you have the single best interupt bot in the game (Reaver) in that grp, and it shows in that fight with how few people ur grp lost. I don't really why u claim albs r gimped vs hib pbaoe grps.
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hotrat
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- #73
Did you not notice the pets on our healers?! Vs a good pbae group thats exactly what its like everytime, the cleric barely gets a chance to cast a spell and if Noretn had not used MoC Asire, Ialkarn and Karnet would have died. Noretn then used ae smite to try and interupt but because it was moc that didnt work and Asire died, Glaudien must also have been interupted by a pet or he would have cast a spread heal.
Again SoS is of very little help vs hib pbae, I will happily fight a hib pbae group without SoS or BoF.
I still cant beleive you think we killed them easily, I have seen many fights vs hib pbae go a lot more quickly than this, and a lot easier. Maybe we didnt play at our very best, but there is not exactly much support can do when they are constantly interupted by bugged pets.
Um mid healers? yer well thats cus they got so many insta's they can keep anything alive for ages, even the pac healer gets 2 instant heals. Try it on a sorc sometime, they will die in 3 maybe even 2 nukes, but like I said in another post chanter heat baseline should be energy damage, then elds can still assist but chanter cant drop everything in 4 nukes solo.
I said it cus someone accused excal albs of being crap, yet a alb caster group who have to use cold damage pbae (vs shaman 24% cold resist) managed to beat the NP LAN group they made this weekend. As for the number of times they beat us, well we came back and fought em again, but got hib adds twice. Then we fought em alb side amg before our sorc's even had pets and lost, I had stopped to get a pet and NP chose that moment to attack
and the last time we fought our caba had missed the port so we were only 7.
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Medde
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- #74
u and the 3 stealther adds owned us no doubt :<
edit: what kind of shaman specs 45+ aug and isnt a buffbot? (24% cold resist jejeje)
edit: what kind of shaman specs 45+ aug and isnt a buffbot? (24% cold resist jejeje)
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jamesjr
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- #75
i need the codec :/, anyone no where to get it plz
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hotrat
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- #76
hmm PR is good vs any opponent groups, all 3 healers can get MoC just like sorc and clerics, shaman gets Ichor. I would say mids have more useable RA's vs hib pbae group, and dont mention reaver as thats class utility and mids far outmatch albs in that.
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ab_fluid
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- #77
why not mention reaver? we r talking about fighting pbaoe grps and reavers are exceptionally good at it so why should i leave it out? shamen gets ichor..great yeh its a good ra, needs timer fixing and then its not such a big issue. PR is a good ra too and very underrated imo. I still think mids would prefer sos over PR/Ichor vs hib grps, i find it hilarious when beating alb grps who use sos as it just shouldn't happen if the mercs etc got any clue how to play, they would see when a moc goes off and run at speed 5 out of box and hit any1 who moves from the box/kill pets on healers, while sorc amnesia spams the pb box and mocs to do so if needed, however i ain't gonna bother with the "gimped albs" posts anymore as most know its not true, just a few who think its underpowered classes that make u lose.
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Asha
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- #78
yes reaver is excelent vs hib pbaoe boxes. I should have slammed the moc (and I still think it looks like 2 cause it went on for ages). however, vs mids it's often like playing in 7 - if they are any good. Maybe it will improve after rr5, dunno
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hotrat
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- #79
You should not mention reaver as my originaly statement was albs have very few useful "RA'S" to beat a hib pbae group, then you say mids get even less decent RA's and that albs at least have SoS and MoC then you add a reaver which is a class not a RA.
If your talking classes mids can run with 4 healers 1 shaman 3 savages. With 5 classes to ae interupt the pbae box you should never lose, and 4 PR's.
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ab_fluid
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- #80
Well, i decided to comment on smth other than RA's as its not jsut RA's that win fights
as for the 4 healers 1 shammy 3 savages... yeh its fucked up and its beyond me how these grps lose fights... like ever
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ab_fluid
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- #81
Originally posted by Asha
yes reaver is excelent vs hib pbaoe boxes. I should have slammed the moc (and I still think it looks like 2 cause it went on for ages). however, vs mids it's often like playing in 7 - if they are any good. Maybe it will improve after rr5, dunno
i guess after rr5 its not gonna pick up a great deal in ra's etc, but u will be a lot more experienced on the class, and be faster reacting etc slamming for assist trains + levi spam + debuffs etc can still be pretty effective, esp when combined with sos. The only downside is ofc... No det, as with all hybrids and that fooks the game up atm imo
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Freppe^^
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- #82
Originally posted by hotrat
Did you not notice the pets on our healers?! Vs a good pbae group thats exactly what its like everytime, the cleric barely gets a chance to cast a spell and if Noretn had not used MoC Asire, Ialkarn and Karnet would have died. Noretn then used ae smite to try and interupt but because it was moc that didnt work and Asire died, Glaudien must also have been interupted by a pet or he would have cast a spread heal.
Again SoS is of very little help vs hib pbae, I will happily fight a hib pbae group without SoS or BoF.
I still cant beleive you think we killed them easily, I have seen many fights vs hib pbae go a lot more quickly than this, and a lot easier. Maybe we didnt play at our very best, but there is not exactly much support can do when they are constantly interupted by bugged pets.Um mid healers? yer well thats cus they got so many insta's they can keep anything alive for ages, even the pac healer gets 2 instant heals. Try it on a sorc sometime, they will die in 3 maybe even 2 nukes, but like I said in another post chanter heat baseline should be energy damage, then elds can still assist but chanter cant drop everything in 4 nukes solo.I said it cus someone accused excal albs of being crap, yet a alb caster group who have to use cold damage pbae (vs shaman 24% cold resist) managed to beat the NP LAN group they made this weekend. As for the number of times they beat us, well we came back and fought em again, but got hib adds twice. Then we fought em alb side amg before our sorc's even had pets and lost, I had stopped to get a pet and NP chose that moment to attack
In that fight, that cleric on screen was the only one that had a pet on him. The other cleric was behind a tree, untouchable. 1 pet on that cleric on screen, 2nd pet was on the guy with red cloak which he changed to you hotrats after a while. So no, the healers did a shit job. You coulda killed em easier.
And from the movie i cannot see who got insta rooted, single insta. Since the cleric turns the screens, but i fink it was the minstrel/ or the guy with red cloak
. Whatever, chanters cant kill you as a sorc in 2-3 nukes, no fuckin way. And if your gettin healed, which you should be, in no way you'll die fast, if you do, look at your healers, its their fault. Its fuck easy keepin someone like that alive IF YOU PAY ATTENTION. Which hardly many albs do? Stick /afk 4 tw?
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Stallion-
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- #83
Originally posted by Freppe^^
In that fight, that cleric on screen was the only one that had a pet on him. The other cleric was behind a tree, untouchable. 1 pet on that cleric on screen, 2nd pet was on the guy with red cloak which he changed to you hotrats after a while. So no, the healers did a shit job. You coulda killed em easier.
And from the movie i cannot see who got insta rooted, single insta. Since the cleric turns the screens, but i fink it was the minstrel/ or the guy with red cloak
ok he didnt have a pet, stil could have been spammed with spells, roots/dps debuffs/mezz/ you name it..any offensive spell.. mby just vylette played good?..
a sorc does go down in 3 hits I asure you, usaly at the start insta root a fg = 5 sec interrupts.. 1 chanter debuff, nuke,nuke, = around 1k dmg, where the 3rd nuke is the killer.. but I think vgn casters know how to assist? so a dead sorc in the first 3 seconds is no problemo.. chanter/eld assist combo can take anything out _verry_ _verry_ fast.. doing 1k dmg every 1.2 secs? theres a dilema that any spell that interrupts is like a 5 sec stun really or mezz. u cant do shit
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Puppetmistress
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- #84
Heat debuff, 570,570,570 dead = 3 nukes.
1 good crit (I've been nuked for over 700 on my friar with 50+ % heat-resists, doesnt matter) and even my friar gets 3 shotted.
I dunno how you can say a chanter cant kill in 3 nukes while they can 3-shot hybrids even with relative ease.
I've been 2-shotted on my theurgist with 2 crits from them.
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Freppe^^
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- #85
Never, ill repeat, i never did 700dmg with my chanter on debuff dd. Not as i noticed anyway. Tbh, was glad when i reached 500. Thats with a rr7l4 chanter. K.
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Stallion-
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- #86
with WP3... 7xx hits arent rare.. even 8xx come daily
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Freppe^^
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- #87
had wp1 tho, preferd, faster casting time etc. mota2 dex2 bla bla
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Stallion-
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- #88
sure but wp dosent affect the crit variation...u must have hit for 7xx-8xx sumtimes.
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liloe
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- #89
nice nice...so this thread went down from a usual "I got a video" post to some stupid whine about RA's. I didn't watch the video (partially cause I lack the codecs, too) but I'd still add my 2 cents.
Most ppl seem to assume that the true spirit of a pbae grp is to get jumped, GP, mezz back and own...did u ever think about that the pbae grp might start the fight and get the first mezz in?
MoC is ofc nice if you're jumped but it's possible to live without it and I've seen that often enough in our GG's that when poma and eso start boxing (ok, they're elds) with good support, it's indeed deadly, even without moc, cause when fighting a melee grp, the bard should be able to interrupt the few interrupt-generators (an insta on an enemy sorc is not too bad, they got no det. anyways and it gives you enough time to try real mezzes on healers. You might now say that by this time you have enemies on you, but the enemy tanks can't be everywhere so it's either on the bard OR on the mages, which means one of the two can try and take the overhand on the battle again.
Well then second: what is so bad about vgn loosing? There're actually some albs who can play so no big deal...if u're dead, well can't change it, go back and try again. I know that the ppl around hotrats were some good players (although we killed that high RR mage grp with Zoyster near bolg today with melee power, TD ROX!!) and I have no problems to loose against them, no need to whine about it, RA's r not everything, skill is also important (I've seen high RR newbies around)
Most ppl seem to assume that the true spirit of a pbae grp is to get jumped, GP, mezz back and own...did u ever think about that the pbae grp might start the fight and get the first mezz in?
MoC is ofc nice if you're jumped but it's possible to live without it and I've seen that often enough in our GG's that when poma and eso start boxing (ok, they're elds) with good support, it's indeed deadly, even without moc, cause when fighting a melee grp, the bard should be able to interrupt the few interrupt-generators (an insta on an enemy sorc is not too bad, they got no det. anyways and it gives you enough time to try real mezzes on healers. You might now say that by this time you have enemies on you, but the enemy tanks can't be everywhere so it's either on the bard OR on the mages, which means one of the two can try and take the overhand on the battle again.
Well then second: what is so bad about vgn loosing? There're actually some albs who can play so no big deal...if u're dead, well can't change it, go back and try again. I know that the ppl around hotrats were some good players (although we killed that high RR mage grp with Zoyster near bolg today with melee power, TD ROX!!) and I have no problems to loose against them, no need to whine about it, RA's r not everything, skill is also important (I've seen high RR newbies around)
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iantheace
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- #90
Ask vigilance, NP, DH about a sorc called azurat who mezzes them 1st 100% of the time or we got instad