Most overpowered stealther poll:

[noaim]

Originally posted by Rollie
*i dont think many disagree infs are overpowered atm, pre 1.62 sb's were even worse, now those and ns seem to be pretty balanced, although NS ra's are pretty dam nasty.*

- I tend to disagree, but hey, free country, atleast the one i live in-





*The thrust line bar DF is a really poor style line, DF is the only decent style in it, Mythic have stated they will not remove the infs spec points, infs have crappy ra's like sb's as vanish is bugged and doesnt work properly hence its as useful as shadowrun. To balance assasins imho, remove stun from evade moves for assasins only, make dex/con debuffs for all realms or just sb or give sb thrust options.*


- Pretty much agree with you there, didn't know vanish was bugged, but it's useful to multi-PA people with, better than nothing-




*Thanes really do need help, i think everyone would agree on that, also the things fixed in 1.62 in middy were needed, the end regen was way out of line in terms of balance than the other realms, we would just take a buffbot to DC and leave him there and run back for end regen buffs, it had no range and if the shammie died it didnt drop, we ran at speed5+sprint all the time, this was far superior to all other realms.*


- To run back and forth every 10 minutes is a real hassle, but yes, never disagreed with you about the end-buff. Im happy with it as it is in it's current state.


*Zerks/Sb's were far better than the equivilent classes of the opposite realm as well, hibs/albs didnt have a light tank remotely close to the zerk pre 1.62 and SB's were the best assasins. The savage post 1.62 has replaced the zerk, was sad at mtk emain the other day, i saw warriors/zerks/runies/sm refused groups cause the only damage dealer people wanted were savages, which is quite understandable with how powerful the class is.*

- Wouldn't go as far as to say SB's were far better than infiltrators, but there's no doubt that Zerks were a couple of notches up on the damagedealing-tree compared to mercs/blademasters. Many of the albs comments back then were that "savages aint as overpowered as zerks, we dont care about them". Heh, look around on the forum now. And for your comment about the groups that reject other professions than savages : Idiots. This is a game. Winning is fun, but to reject other viable classes is plain egoistic and elitistic. The savage problem is somewhat delicate matter, meet unbuffed savages and come back and tell me that they are extremely overpowered. And no matter how many buffbots there is, you still cant nerf a class solely based on how good they are buffed. They need a wellthought fix, not another damagereduction fix-

*Midgard wasnt nerfed 1.62, as you can see with middy rvr atm, they are still far superior to other realms in terms of group utility.*

- midgard was nerfed. Zerks and SB were nerfed, thus midgard was nerfed.-

*Anyhows everyone has there own views on stuff, thats mine from playing both alb and middy for the last 1.5 years.*

-Yup, and i have my belief of how good/bad the realms are. No matter what we say/do, mythic will nerf/fix according to the US playerbase, and as it looks now, it will be infs that get a dose of the bat next if u ask me. Im basing this on the VN whine, infiltrators are more whined about than savages there atm-

Im too lazy to quote/unquote.

 

[Gaal66]

No point playing a stealther in Emain in the weekends unless you join a stealther group or duo..


and where's the fun in that?


I find it so amusing to have a FG of alb stealthers emoting me after they kill me solo.. You're soooo cool!!1



Something needs to be done about stealthers cause atm there are way too many of them.

 

[Aybabtu]

Originally posted by Gaal66
No point playing a stealther in Emain in the weekends unless you join a stealther group or duo..


and where's the fun in that?


I find it so amusing to have a FG of alb stealthers emoting me after they kill me solo.. You're soooo cool!!1



Something needs to be done about stealthers cause atm there are way too many of them.

What are you gonna do about it? force people not to play an assassin? nerf the classes so that they are unplayable?

 

[Gaal66]

Originally posted by Aybabtu
What are you gonna do about it? force people not to play an assassin? nerf the classes so that they are unplayable?

First of all I really hope that Mythics makes stealth so that when you're several stealthers together (read: 1+) then you get a more crappier stealth.

That would force stealthers to stop grouping up together and stop camping MGs.


Sure, nerf the stealther classes a bit, I don't mind that. I'm fine with the LA nerf, I never was a SZ anyway, but it's amusing that all of the LA whiners now are so afraid of being nerfed that they ask us to call for improvements of our class instead of asking for nerfs.. Where's the logic?

Currently I find Infs being the top assasin these days and that's quite alright with me, BUT I don't think it's alright that 90% of all stealthers group / duo AND camp MGs etc.


- So to stop the stealther infestation, I wouldn't mind stealth being less effective the more stealthers you are in the same area.
- I would also like to see the assasin ability Danger Sense have a meaning in RvR too, maybe it could give you some sort of info of how many enemy stealthers there are in your visual range or something, usable once per 15 mins or something.
- I would also love if See Hidden and True Sight disappeared completely or at least make some more changes to them. Like True Sight gets a less effective range the more friendly stealthers there are in your visual range.
See Hidden should get it's range decreased even more. It sucks for non-assasins that there is a RA that neglects most of their stealth skill.


These are just ideas I thought of right now, and I bet there are plenty of other things that could be done.

 

[Aybabtu]

Originally posted by Gaal66
First of all I really hope that Mythics makes stealth so that when you're several stealthers together (read: 1+) then you get a more crappier stealth.

That would force stealthers to stop grouping up together and stop camping MGs.


Sure, nerf the stealther classes a bit, I don't mind that. I'm fine with the LA nerf, I never was a SZ anyway, but it's amusing that all of the LA whiners now are so afraid of being nerfed that they ask us to call for improvements of our class instead of asking for nerfs.. Where's the logic?

Currently I find Infs being the top assasin these days and that's quite alright with me, BUT I don't think it's alright that 90% of all stealthers group / duo AND camp MGs etc.


- So to stop the stealther infestation, I wouldn't mind stealth being less effective the more stealthers you are in the same area.
- I would also like to see the assasin ability Danger Sense have a meaning in RvR too, maybe it could give you some sort of info of how many enemy stealthers there are in your visual range or something, usable once per 15 mins or something.
- I would also love if See Hidden and True Sight disappeared completely or at least make some more changes to them. Like True Sight gets a less effective range the more friendly stealthers there are in your visual range.
See Hidden should get it's range decreased even more. It sucks for non-assasins that there is a RA that neglects most of their stealth skill.


These are just ideas I thought of right now, and I bet there are plenty of other things that could be done.

I like your ideas, instead of calling nerf DF as many others you actually look at it as a whole.....

about LA nerf thing, Sb's and zerker cried for Merc/BM's dmg to get better instead of theirs getting nerfed, you can put it like this, basic human reactions. No one wants their char to be fucked up so they come up with ideas on how to fix the whiners.

 

[belth]

Oh look, another /wajn thread. Where's the cheese?

 

[herjulf]

is there justice in a first in line style with 9sec stun?
that is imo the end of the discussion.
9sec = 4-6 styles advantage 4 styles in stun another 1-2 styles before reaction from stun timeout.
in a infil vs sb fight, a evade will always occur, it is 100% certain.
and a sb with the only counter "purge" used it is over.
4 styles is just about all needed to end it all.

Infil have higher damage output today then SB´s, i have 2 MP weps atm, a dwarven bastard short sword spd4.1 16.2 dps and LA 2.9sec 16.5dps. both enchanted, SCed and with Proccs.

The only actual way to even come close to win i have to get in my PA + CD.
I could try to get in a comeback but what is that gimped stun anyways? 3sec? not even a single melee round.

i would say i do 120-150 dmg mainhand and 30ish or so left hand and that is crit styles 100% with above 50 in crit with +skills.

NS outdmg me, and inf outdamage me.

NS i dont mind they play more by skill overall i like fighting them cuz i actually have somewhat of a chance there.
However SB is STR based wepskill wise, thus we are heavily affected bu enerv line of poisons.
which ofc Infil take advantage of aswell, lower wepskill = evade evade evade = own all with my 1button press wonder style.

Overall SB need alot alot of luvin atm to get within the same solar system as NS and Infil.
With the Infil being in the center.

end of Herjulfs wise words of facts.

 

[BidAccount]

I've seen a lot of dumb whines posted about infils, maily by fotm shadowzerks who can't handle parity.

Now LA is approximately equal to CD/DW on equal spec (actually its slightly better, but only slightly), so that whine is out of the window.

So they bitch about infil damage. And its either one of two forms. Bitch 1 is about slash specc'd infils hitting too hard, but they casually overlook that the're hitting no harder than SBs but on slash vuln armour. Dumb.

Bitch 2 normally compares a 50 weapon spec infil with a 39 spec SB. Very dumb - course its going to be higher! Compare 50 spec on both and surprise surprise the damage is the same.

So the SB is equal in damage, so up comes the next whine. The whine of the month - dragonfang. Which strangely wasn't an issue when SBs did 30% more damage tha they should have done. A 9 sec stun off evade at 50 is a reasonable style (personally I think it should be off parry and let the mercs kick ass). Its weaker/harder to land/less useful than: Salm, bruatalize, annihalation, baseline ranged stun, ranged ae stun and diamonback (costs far fewer points and is available 25 levels earlier).

But hey - the shadowzerk was king for a year or more, now long live the new king - the shadowhine.

Infils ain't overpowered, but shadowblades certainly are dumb.

 

[Aybabtu]

Originally posted by herjulf
is there justice in a first in line style with 9sec stun?
that is imo the end of the discussion.
9sec = 4-6 styles advantage 4 styles in stun another 1-2 styles before reaction from stun timeout.
in a infil vs sb fight, a evade will always occur, it is 100% certain.
and a sb with the only counter "purge" used it is over.
4 styles is just about all needed to end it all.

Infil have higher damage output today then SB´s, i have 2 MP weps atm, a dwarven bastard short sword spd4.1 16.2 dps and LA 2.9sec 16.5dps. both enchanted, SCed and with Proccs.

The only actual way to even come close to win i have to get in my PA + CD.
I could try to get in a comeback but what is that gimped stun anyways? 3sec? not even a single melee round.

i would say i do 120-150 dmg mainhand and 30ish or so left hand and that is crit styles 100% with above 50 in crit with +skills.

NS outdmg me, and inf outdamage me.

NS i dont mind they play more by skill overall i like fighting them cuz i actually have somewhat of a chance there.
However SB is STR based wepskill wise, thus we are heavily affected bu enerv line of poisons.
which ofc Infil take advantage of aswell, lower wepskill = evade evade evade = own all with my 1button press wonder style.

Overall SB need alot alot of luvin atm to get within the same solar system as NS and Infil.
With the Infil being in the center.

end of Herjulfs wise words of facts.

hehe...... really made me laugh with this one

Dragon Fang might be first in chain, but there are 9sec stun anytime styles and position based styles out there too.

Your sucky dmg is cos of str/con debuff no doubt about it, NS's use it too so i'd guess they are debuff abusers too?

Now if the NS outdmg you too, then why are you only whining about infils? maybe cos of the population? again not something you can blame the infiltrator class for.

NS's has a 1botton style too, 5sec stun which is a long time vs some buffed NS with haste too...... calling the infil a 1botton class can't really be compared to 1botton DoubleFrosst4tehwin!!!!1111one


Not being in center must be hard for you SB's...... it surely were for infils.


(wasn't they going to raise SB dmg in a futura patch?)

 

[-RG-Jaond]

So afraid of getting nerfed

But Aybabt you are good and will still be when nerfed so nothing to be afraid of

 

[belth]

Nerf SBs more IMO.

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Originally posted by -RG-Jaond
So afraid of getting nerfed

But Aybabt you are good and will still be when nerfed so nothing to be afraid of

Feel free to nerf, I just find it funny how fast SB's started calling for nerfs. And while I see nothing wrong with a class that does similar damage to what it receives (a slash inf damage is very similar to what an SB does, after the nerf, and slash has a bonus vs SB, but a penalty vs NS). All you guys have to say is DF is too good. Tanks get 10s stun after a block, or a shield user can get a 9s stun with only 42 skill. Savages stun me if I turn my back on them and kill me before stun wears off...
So what is so overpowering about a 9s stun off evade? Playing my scout I will be evade about 8 times in a row by an unbuffed SB. Playing an inf, an SB won't really evade me, or I won't really evade an SB. Happens maybe once in a fight. So the rest of the time thrust infs will do crappy damage thanks to crappy styles.

But you little sad feckers have to take that away, so you are guaranteed 100% win vs thrust infs.
Just use your purge, and play like salam does... purge down? Run to the mtk.
Sounds like how SB's suggested scouts should play pre SH nerf. Camo down? Wait at the atk for it to come up again...
Regards, Glottis

 

[herjulf]

Originally posted by Aybabtu
hehe...... really made me laugh with this one

Dragon Fang might be first in chain, but there are 9sec stun anytime styles and position based styles out there too.

Your sucky dmg is cos of str/con debuff no doubt about it, NS's use it too so i'd guess they are debuff abusers too?

Now if the NS outdmg you too, then why are you only whining about infils? maybe cos of the population? again not something you can blame the infiltrator class for.

NS's has a 1botton style too, 5sec stun which is a long time vs some buffed NS with haste too...... calling the infil a 1botton class can't really be compared to 1botton DoubleFrosst4tehwin!!!!1111one


Not being in center must be hard for you SB's...... it surely were for infils.


(wasn't they going to raise SB dmg in a futura patch?)

check how many actually actually bother with 2xfrost...
cuz it isnt nearly as much fuss as u make it sound like infact 9/10 only use crit styles garotte/ah, due to gimpedness of 2xfrost.

And yes NS have a 5sec stun style, which is a medium damage one and medium fatigue.
DF is low fatigue, high atk bonus, med dmg. and can if wished be repeated throughout the stun, or position behind to pierce.. pierce pierce.

they can get acces to but they dont have 2.5 spec points to make shure they are powerfull straightover the specs.

imo remove and reset to 2.2 spec points if they are allowed to keep DF. give another storebought poison line dex/con(qui) debuff.
Possibly midgard only.

Why u ask yourself, well 9/10 1vs1 is another stalther, the str/con to only have actual impact on one realm is unfair.
Or fix it by giving critblade speccing SB´s a reactionary stun style at high lvl crit/weaponskill.

Or simply remove the infil DF, the latter is the easiest solution.

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Originally posted by Glottis_Xanadu
Feel free to nerf, I just find it funny how fast SB's started calling for nerfs. And while I see nothing wrong with a class that does similar damage to what it receives (a slash inf damage is very similar to what an SB does, after the nerf, and slash has a bonus vs SB, but a penalty vs NS). All you guys have to say is DF is too good. Tanks get 10s stun after a block, or a shield user can get a 9s stun with only 42 skill. Savages stun me if I turn my back on them and kill me before stun wears off...
So what is so overpowering about a 9s stun off evade? Playing my scout I will be evade about 8 times in a row by an unbuffed SB. Playing an inf, an SB won't really evade me, or I won't really evade an SB. Happens maybe once in a fight. So the rest of the time thrust infs will do crappy damage thanks to crappy styles.

But you little sad feckers have to take that away, so you are guaranteed 100% win vs thrust infs.
Just use your purge, and play like salam does... purge down? Run to the mtk.
Sounds like how SB's suggested scouts should play pre SH nerf. Camo down? Wait at the atk for it to come up again...
Regards, Glottis

So much anger

Everytime I see you getting killed by an sb I smile and know how upset you are. Taking ss of op la dmg/sb zerg or what ever explaination you make up for the fact that you suck.

I cant see how you have fun playing this game....

Regards Jaond

 

[herjulf]

Originally posted by Rollie

As stated before pre 1.62, the only ones who really moaned about DF were archers from hib/mid and NS, since SB were extremely overpowered, now they have been brought into line damage wise they lack either RA's, dex/con debuff or a stun off evade in the sword/axe line.

Thats the problem, it isnt into line.
NS/infil outdamage a pre rr5 SB anyday.
Also SB´s didnt get RA respec after LA fat nerf 2k3, = wasted RA points into boasting that.

I can understand scared infils fearing the coming unavoidable nerf or uptune of SB´s but it is a mustbe.
Because at this moment in time, infil is recognised as being the single most overpowered class in the game.

It is official, there even was a petition on it on the VN boards.
74% of almost 800ppl who voted choosed infil.
3% sb 4% ns.

Things like that shurely tell you something is wrong.

 

[herjulf]

Originally posted by -RG-Jaond
So much anger

Everytime I see you getting killed by an sb I smile and know how upset you are. Taking ss of op la dmg/sb zerg or what ever explaination you make up for the fact that you suck.

I cant see how you have fun playing this game....

Regards Jaond

 

[BidAccount]

herjulf - you're deluding yourself.

Tests have shown LA is within 1% variance of CD/DW at same spec - the1% in the SBs favour.

At same weap spec sb and infils do comparable damage.

You are being outdamaged by higher spec'd infils using slash on slash vuln armour. Your base damage at same spec is comparable!

What was scary was that lower weapon spec'd SBs could outdamage a higher weapon spec'd ns/infil by 30%

(And i wouldn't pay too much attention to that survey - started by a shadowhine on the shadowhine boards. Heck they had a campaign going for a couple of weeks to nerf friars because a shadowhine got beaten by one.)

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
(And i wouldn't pay too much attention to that survey - started by a shadowhine on the shadowhine boards. Heck they had a campaign going for a couple of weeks to nerf friars because a shadowhine got beaten by one.)

If you talking about vnboards i can agree that some of the sbs on us servers are realy funny guys

 

[[DK]hakke]

Originally posted by herjulf
Because at this moment in time, infil is recognised as being the single most overpowered class in the game.

Savage anyone?

Originally posted by herjulf
they can get acces to but they dont have 2.5 spec points to make shure they are powerfull straightover the specs.

Yeah, the famous >25 pierce specced Shade...evul one.

Originally posted by herjulf
the str/con to only have actual impact on one realm is unfair.

Con debuff, yeah, sb-only? And there are blade/slash specced assassins too you know...but thrust/pierce doesn't suffer as much from the STR debuff as sbs do, thats right.

 

[Gaal66]

So much false information in this thread that it makes me almost cry.

 

[belth]

Originally posted by Gaal66
So much false information in this thread that it makes me almost cry.

Being spread by your realm-mates...

 

[Haldar]

my list of SB disadvantages

1. SBs have no str/dex based weapons, thus our weaponskill is lower.
2. SBs have only one damage type (slash) while our counterparts in other realms have access to 2 types (slash and thrust)
3. SB weapons are str based, thus str/con debuff hurts us more than our counterparts in other realms -- as majority of them specced thrust line which is str/dex based.
4. SB set of RAs is worst between all assasins.
5. SB natural enemies may spec thrust line as main weapon and get an evade-based stun in it, while SBs are unable to do it as our stun is in offhand line and 2nd in chain.
6. Our unique advantage (extra hp) is worse than extra 0.3 spec Infiltrators got and more-less equal to unique ability of Nightshades (cold-based insta DD at 20 sec timer). Bear in mind that extra hp value is exactly 5% (any other amount of hp comes from extra con - as SBs may be Norsemen), and 2h weapons ability is not a Shadowblade ability, it is Midgard ability.
7. SBs are unable to spec damage our counterparts in other realms are weak to while they retain this possibility.
8. SB ranged weapons are throwing knives which have range same as NS DD (1200) but less than Albion Xbow (1500), they are costly (0.5g each top tier throwing knife) and their damage is approx. 50% lower than damage from Albion Xbow (cap is 118 while Albion Xbow cap is over 200).
9. SBs got worst buffbots. Base set of buffs is roughly same, set of double buffs is roughly same, but in the realm of special buffs Cleric (67 AF+9 hp regen, 50 Enh spec) > Druid (20% haste+2.2 dps dmg shield, 50 Nurt 20 Nat spec) >> Shaman (2.8 dps damage shield, 48 aug 24 cave spec)

any ETA on balance?.....

 

[froler-mid]

Originally posted by Hroft[BC]
any ETA on balance?.....

was in 1.62 n00b.

 

[Haldar]

doh...expected more clever answer from u. time to shake off ur hangover from achieving RR10

 

[BidAccount]

1. SBs have no str/dex based weapons, thus our weaponskill is lower.

Same issue faces slash/blades specc'd infils & NS. A thrust line would seem reasonable for SBs, at the cost of sword or axe. They'l respec out of it in a hearbeat when they realise it does less damage than axe/sword.

2. SBs have only one damage type (slash) while our counterparts in other realms have access to 2 types (slash and thrust).

Each assassin class has access to two weapon lines plus critstrike. Equal.

3. SB weapons are str based, thus str/con debuff hurts us more than our counterparts in other realms -- as majority of them specced thrust line which is str/dex based.

Slash/blades infil/NS face same problem.

4. SB set of RAs is worst between all assasins.

Opinion. At the moment Shadowrun is better than vanish, purely because vanish is bugged and doesn't work properly. NS have the best RA access, but agree SBs could use a little something.

5. SB natural enemies may spec thrust line as main weapon and get an evade-based stun in it, while SBs are unable to do it as our stun is in offhand line and 2nd in chain.

So? heroes get rear positional stun, whilst polearmsmen get 2 stage reactionery stun. SB stun is at 39 spec, whilst infils at 50. Its a tradeoff, less points spent but a stage, and quite effective, chain.

6. Our unique advantage (extra hp) is worse than extra 0.3 spec Infiltrators got and more-less equal to unique ability of Nightshades (cold-based insta DD at 20 sec timer). Bear in mind that extra hp value is exactly 5% (any other amount of hp comes from extra con - as SBs may be Norsemen), and 2h weapons ability is not a Shadowblade ability, it is Midgard ability.

No - its a midgard ability that shadowblades were given. It is an advantage over NS/infils who are unable to access this. It has to be counted in balance discussions.

7. SBs are unable to spec damage our counterparts in other realms are weak to while they retain this possibility.

So no class in Hib/Alb is vuln to slash?

8. SB ranged weapons are throwing knives which have range same as NS DD (1200) but less than Albion Xbow (1500), they are costly (0.5g each top tier throwing knife) and their damage is approx. 50% lower than damage from Albion Xbow (cap is 118 while Albion Xbow cap is over 200).

Caps and reality on even con opponent are different stories. Infil xbow sucks ass - approx 60 points damage/hit. Is this really an issue or were you clutching at straws at this point?

9. SBs got worst buffbots. Base set of buffs is roughly same, set of double buffs is roughly same, but in the realm of special buffs Cleric (67 AF+9 hp regen, 50 Enh spec) > Druid (20% haste+2.2 dps dmg shield, 50 Nurt 20 Nat spec) >> Shaman (2.8 dps damage shield, 48 aug 24 cave spec)

You're counting buffbotts in assassin balance? Please!

any ETA on balance?.....

Its here. You do comparable damge on mainhand on even spec and comparable damage on offhand on even spec. Now stop being a greedy little shadowblade, and play the game the rest of us have been playing for the last 12 months.

 

[Cawr]

Introduce Dex/Con debuffs in the evenom line, reduce DF stun to 7 Secs and increase its damage.

Oh +1 etc.

 

[Haldar]

Same issue faces slash/blades specc'd infils & NS. A thrust line would seem reasonable for SBs, at the cost of sword or axe. They'l respec out of it in a hearbeat when they realise it does less damage than axe/sword.

1. Infi and NS have the choice between str and str/dex. SBs do NOT have one.

Each assassin class has access to two weapon lines plus critstrike. Equal.

2. Read carefully! Axe/Sword (Mid) are both Slash, Blades/Pierce (Hib) are Slash/Thrust, Slashing/Thrusting (ALb) are Slash/Thrust. Not equal.

Slash/blades infil/NS face same problem.

3. See #1.

Opinion. At the moment Shadowrun is better than vanish, purely because vanish is bugged and doesn't work properly. NS have the best RA access, but agree SBs could use a little something.

4. I know about the bug, but at least some Infis get Vanish while i know that zero Sbs got Shadowrun, even including US servers.

So? heroes get rear positional stun, whilst polearmsmen get 2 stage reactionery stun. SB stun is at 39 spec, whilst infils at 50. Its a tradeoff, less points spent but a stage, and quite effective, chain.

5. I am talking about Assasin balance here, not about realm balance. And in the Assasin world Dragonfang>Diamondback>Frosty Gaze. I doubt that Infis and NSs would be content with their stun removed from 50 Thrust/25 Pierce and set to 18-->39 Dual Wield / Celtic Dual.

No - its a midgard ability that shadowblades were given. It is an advantage over NS/infils who are unable to access this. It has to be counted in balance discussions.

6. Ok, good. But recent polls on Midgard and Hibernia Rogue Boards indicate that both SBs and NSs would trade their unique abilities for Infiltrator one (0.3 spec pts). Thus, my point remains intact.

So no class in Hib/Alb is vuln to slash?

7.
a. RTFM. There are zero classes in Albion who are vuln to slash, and only scale users are vuln to slash in Hibernia - and they shouldn't me our primary targets anyway except maybe Druids.
b. I repeat, i am talking about Assasin balance here. If my enemy can spec slash which i am vlun too - i should be able to do same thing.

Caps and reality on even con opponent are different stories. Infil xbow sucks ass - approx 60 points damage/hit. Is this really an issue or were you clutching at straws at this point?

8.
a. My dagger hits for approx 35 dmg on even con oppenents.
b. I agree, this point is a minor one. But it is a disadvantage anyway.

You're counting buffbotts in assassin balance? Please!
9. Yes! And i will continue to do so until all assasins will be going RvR without buffbots.

Its here. You do comparable damge on mainhand on even spec and comparable damage on offhand on even spec. Now stop being a greedy little shadowblade, and play the game the rest of us have been playing for the last 12 months.

10.
a. It is not here. In this case there would be equal amount of assasins of each realm, and this is not an issue.
b. Now stop being a little rude FOTM infiltrator - there are plenty of u already and according to biology u will start eating each other soon.

 

[Gaal66]

A Dex/Con debuff won't make the Weaponskill issue much different than it is now, and Thrust/Pierce users will still have a higher weaponskill than a Slash/Blade/Axe/Sword user have.

Thrust/Pierce:
(300 Str + 300 Dex) /2 = 300
- 118 (dex/con)
= (300 Str + 182 Dex) /2 = 241

Slash/Blade/Axe/Sword:
300 Str
-118 (Str/con)
= 182

It would be exactly the same Weaponskill situation as it is now. For any effect at all you would have to use BOTH the str/con debuff + the dex/con debuff, and ONLY then you would see a change, ie the Weaponskill situation would be equal.

The Dex/Con debuff would also effect the evade rates, and that's good, but you can't ask for a Dex/Con debuff in order to help anyone.

If there should be a new debuff it should definatly be a Dex/Qui debuff and nothing else. Only that would make it more even, AND at the same time it would decrease an assasin's evade rate.
A Dex/Qui debuff would be appreciated by ALL realm's assasins simply due to it's ability to decrease the evade rates.

 

[hercules-df]

:bore:

 

[herjulf]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
1. SBs have no str/dex based weapons, thus our weaponskill is lower.

yet deliver more dmg, "fact" also look on armour resist description below.

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy

3. SB weapons are str based, thus str/con debuff hurts us more than our counterparts in other realms -- as majority of them specced thrust line which is str/dex based.

Slash/blades infil/NS face same problem.

[/B]

DF is dex, debuff SB str = evade more or less each hit.
2-H as u call a "advantage" is STR thus is greatly affected by str/con.

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy

4. SB set of RAs is worst between all assasins.

Opinion. At the moment Shadowrun is better than vanish, purely because vanish is bugged and doesn't work properly. NS have the best RA access, but agree SBs could use a little something.

[/B]

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA so insta vanish after fight is worse then moving like a snail on steroids ^^. and if vanish is bugged it ill get fixed poor poor excuse, laf

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy

5. SB natural enemies may spec thrust line as main weapon and get an evade-based stun in it, while SBs are unable to do it as our stun is in offhand line and 2nd in chain.

So? heroes get rear positional stun, whilst polearmsmen get 2 stage reactionery stun. SB stun is at 39 spec, whilst infils at 50. Its a tradeoff, less points spent but a stage, and quite effective, chain.

[/B]

NS and Infil get the very very same crit styles as SB, and it is all a SB has and it is a 2nd FROM STEALTH ONLY style.
Infil get a from UNSTEALTH on evade 9sec stun, AND the same 2nd chain stun u friggin ridicilously compare to DF.
get a grip.

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy

6. Our unique advantage (extra hp) is worse than extra 0.3 spec Infiltrators got and more-less equal to unique ability of Nightshades (cold-based insta DD at 20 sec timer). Bear in mind that extra hp value is exactly 5% (any other amount of hp comes from extra con - as SBs may be Norsemen), and 2h weapons ability is not a Shadowblade ability, it is Midgard ability.

No - its a midgard ability that shadowblades were given. It is an advantage over NS/infils who are unable to access this. It has to be counted in balance discussions.

[/B]

When in this discussion is 2-h weapon an advantage?
THE only time 2-h is advantage is when frontload delivering a PA, but yet even that infil seem to do better then me, yet i am a CRIT hybrid. even though i use 2-h, i PA infils for around 450dmg, infils pa me for that or more. ( capped thrust, slash resist. )
When in assasain vs assasain 2-h = doom 2k3, it just wont work, 2-h is only for delivering PA and poss CD.
One evade with a 2-h = 10-12sec without deliverin any damage.

laf

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy

7. SBs are unable to spec damage our counterparts in other realms are weak to while they retain this possibility.

So no class in Hib/Alb is vuln to slash?

[/B]

ALL alb classes are NEUTRAL to slash INCLUDING infil.

hibernia - champ, druid, hero and warden is vulnurable, NIGHTSHADE is RESISTANT to slash

Midgard - shadowblades are vulnurable to slash, resistent to thrust.
Thus here u see that even at this level SB is exposed to the rest.
read up before u say something next time.

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy

8. SB ranged weapons are throwing knives which have range same as NS DD (1200) but less than Albion Xbow (1500), they are costly (0.5g each top tier throwing knife) and their damage is approx. 50% lower than damage from Albion Xbow (cap is 118 while Albion Xbow cap is over 200).

Caps and reality on even con opponent are different stories. Infil xbow sucks ass - approx 60 points damage/hit. Is this really an issue or were you clutching at straws at this point?

[/B]

Well cant say i have ever had to use ranged weps on my SB, but another point made on infils being better at something SB´s arent good at, and yes infils can get thrust/slash/crush arrows for xbow.

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy

9. SBs got worst buffbots. Base set of buffs is roughly same, set of double buffs is roughly same, but in the realm of special buffs Cleric (67 AF+9 hp regen, 50 Enh spec) > Druid (20% haste+2.2 dps dmg shield, 50 Nurt 20 Nat spec) >> Shaman (2.8 dps damage shield, 48 aug 24 cave spec)

You're counting buffbotts in assassin balance? Please!

any ETA on balance?.....

Its here. You do comparable damge on mainhand on even spec and comparable damage on offhand on even spec. Now stop being a greedy little shadowblade, and play the game the rest of us have been playing for the last 12 months. [/B]

nope sb´s do not do comparable damage mainhand + LA, but thats not the main reason of the fllood of whines, it is the imbalance DF cause.
based on the FACT that 9/10 assasain fights is assasain/bowuser vs assasain/bowuser.
And due to game mechanics in a sb vs infil fight infil will evade in one melee round or another which WILL give infil a 9sec headstart if purge is not up.
And even if purge is up the reaction time to trigger purge is 100% shure to be atleast 2 melee rounds from the infil