ML3 RAID - Sunday 20th June, 3pm UK time, Aerus Haven

[Oro]

Sorry, but one thing my limited time spent setting up and running Raids has taught me is that basing sign-up on "first-come-first-served" normally means "failed Raid"

My experience is to build a solid core and then just let others be a part of the raid. Naturally as a cabalist thats been left out I may seem biased, but there are many classes that don't fit into opted raid groups. I've done ML3 as lead tank with pally and there's nothing wrong with doing it that way.

<shrugs>

As said, your raid, you decide.

 

[Xeanor]

Was thinking the same thing, it's very strange to put a limit on the number of people.

 

[Cirandi]

Was thinking the same thing, it's very strange to put a limit on the number of people.

I don't think it's very strange... This is a LONG raid and the more ppl you have, the more ppl are potentially afk/ld/not listening. This creates even more delay. If i was to lead it i would also put a limit to the number of ppl joining.

 

[Greatred]

Doh Next ML3 raid then

 

[Xeanor]

I don't think it's very strange... This is a LONG raid and the more ppl you have, the more ppl are potentially afk/ld/not listening. This creates even more delay. If i was to lead it i would also put a limit to the number of ppl joining.

So you're calling me an AFK'er who doesn't listen and has a crap connection?

I took a day off work for tomorrow so I could join the raid and now I'm left out, for a idiot reason.

 

[Corran]

So you're calling me an AFK'er who doesn't listen and has a crap connection?

I took a day off work for tomorrow so I could join the raid and now I'm left out, for a idiot reason.

just go along and make sure you dont die... they not likely to lock the bg so you be able to join it still and get credit.. just make sure you dont die

 

[Kalthorine]

So you're calling me an AFK'er who doesn't listen and has a crap connection?

I took a day off work for tomorrow so I could join the raid and now I'm left out, for a idiot reason.

My long-burning fuse has finally come to its fizzling end...

At the risk of stirring up further ill feeling, the Raid has always been a number-limited one and was stated as such in the very first post - and repeated time and time and time again in other posts since then. As such, it does not take a huge leap of logic to assume that if there are more people signed up than the number the raid is specified for, then some people will be disappointed when the Raid group list is published.

I am very sorry you took time off work for a Raid you haven't been chosen for Xeanor. But whether you agree with my rules or not, they were clearly stated in the beginning so I would have hoped you would have realised that there would be a good chance that you might be unlucky this time.

This last point is NOT aimed at you Xeanor, so please do not wrongly assume that it is - it is just a general observation. I am happy to organise ML Raids and have done so regularly in the past, and will be doing so regularly in the future. Indeed, I will be running another ML3 Raid in 2-3 weeks time purely because of the amount of interest shown in this Raid, and because I don't want people to miss out. However, were I not so worried about letting down the majority of reasonable, patient people out there then I would probably not bother - since it would be very easy to get jaded by the petulant, ungrateful, sulky and whining attitudes of those very few people who like to throw their toys out of the pram because they miss out on a place on the Raid, and who think that sniping at the (clearly stated) Raid Rules or the Raid Organiser makes them look like anything other than the kind of narrow-minded, lazy, selfish and immature prima donnas that give this game a bad name.

There... sorry, but i had to get that off my chest. To the majority of sulkers out there I say this - if you do not like the way I run my Raids, then please feel free to boycott them in future and organise your own. Otherwise, please do a favour to the majority of reasonable people out there who realise how much work goes into organising something like this, and shut up.

 

[Kalthorine]

just go along and make sure you dont die... they not likely to lock the bg so you be able to join it still and get credit.. just make sure you dont die

Sorry to disappoint, but all my Raid bg's are by invite only.

 

[Xeanor]

Point is, you make a huge problem out of something that is no problem at all.

And I'm a whiner? I just like to participate in a raid which is just possible and doesn't cause any problems at all, I lead one of albion's best guilds and I'm not some lv40 AFK n00b, I even take the time to get a day off work, and I'm left out in the cold. Just let me tag along, it's no problem for you, you know it is, but you're just being ignorant. I led one of the groups on the pre-req raid and you still doubt my capabilities as a person? And I can't call my colleagues at work 1 day before I have to work saying i can't come, i need to call them 5 days in advance or so.

 

[Xeanor]

Anyway, I'm making too much of a point of this, I guess it's no use convincing you anymore to satisfy other players without any extra effort.

 

[Kalthorine]

And I'm a whiner? I just like to participate in a raid which is just possible and doesn't cause any problems at all, I lead one of albion's best guilds and I'm not some lv40 AFK n00b, I even take the time to get a day off work, and I'm left out in the cold. Just let me tag along, it's no problem for you, you know it is, but you're just being ignorant. I led one of the groups on the pre-req raid and you still doubt my capabilities as a person? And I can't call my colleagues at work 1 day before I have to work saying i can't come, i need to call them 5 days in advance or so.

Point 1: I would appreciate it if you didn't make up your own wording for my posts, but instead actually took time to read this thread properly. If you can find one single instance in any of my posts in this entire thread where I called you or anyone else a "whiner" by name, or indeed where I have commented unfairly on the capabilities of any specific person, then you are clearly reading the wrong thread. Personally, I believe that allowing any thread to degenerate into personal name-calling is pointless and ultimately self-defeating.

Point 2: As I stated previously, the rule detailing that there would be a number limit has been in place ever since the original post, over eleven days ago, and to be honest I cannot see how anyone who takes time to read and understand the conditions properly could still think that signing up in this thread guaranteed a place on the Raid. However, as someone with a 9-to-5 job myself I understand how precious vacation time can be, and so I am prepared to make an exception in this one instance only. And I want to stress that it is only your holiday situation, Xeanor, that is the reason for my relaxing the rules on this occasion - no other hangers on, please, for reasons given below (and reasons which I thought would be self-evident... but clearly I was mistaken). So, Xeanor, be in Aerus Haven by 3pm and I will, on this one single occasion, allow you to accompany us.

Point 3: The previous exception has NOT changed my mind concerning the primary reason why under normal circumstances I do not allow single "hangers-on" to a Raid. Basically, I strongly believe that it is blatantly unfair to make exceptions for single individuals and not allow everyone the same right. I would have thought that as the leader of one of Albion's "best Guilds", Xeanor, you would appreciate how divisive it can be to state one course of action and then let any "favourites" or special cases get away with special treatment while not giving the same chance to anyone else. Do you really think that, with lots of other reserves hanging around for a chance of joining the Raid, a Raid Leader can fairly say to one person "OK, you can come along... but the rest of you can't"? And if, in the interest of fairness, that rule was relaxed and others given the same right, do you honestly believe that there would not be at least another couple of full groups-worth of people who suddenly decide they want to tag along as well? And suddenly the entire Raid goes from a carefully managed and organised, enjoyable Event for those who have taken time to read, accept and follow the Raid Organiser's rules, to a lag-fest, LD-ridden free-for-all mess. This seems like such an obvious consequence to me of relaxing pre-arranged, pre-decided Raid Rules, and I am puzzled that you did not see it this way as well.

Point 4: (This point is, again, NOT aimed at you, Xeanor) I know that my Main Raid Rules can seem draconian - I always have number limits, I always require pre-sign up, I always publish group lists in advance, I always use /bg listen a lot and expect people to follow instructions, and I never (at least before Xeanor's case, which I hope people appreciate is a special situation) make expections to clearly stated Raid requirements. If people do not like the way I run my Raids, then you are clearly entitled to hold that opinion... but I would also say that if you don't like them you are free to run your own Raids or simply not attend mine, and I would certainly not be either insulted or annoyed in either case (in fact I would encourage more people to run more raids more often!). Wasting mine and others' time by pointlessly criticising the way I run my Raid does not help anyone. Note, however, that I did welcome the many posts in this thread suggesting different ways I might consider to improve my approach to Raids in future. Constructive criticism is encouraged - destructive moaning simply belittles us all.

 

[Reardon]

I have to whine a bit .. dont got any cheese tho

Group 4:
1) Ouroboros (50 Friar)
2) Seoman (50 Pally)
3) Mithos (50 Pally)
4) Binks (50 Necro)
5) Tinyfeet (50 Inf)<----
6) Jenson (50 Rejuv Cleric)
7) Tinybot (50 Enh Cleric) <----
8) Uncanny (50 Cabby)

Your taking in a guy and his buffbot instead of two real players

(Guess im just jealux (sp?) ... )

FYI cruhar tinybot has a person driving the char and always has had,plz dont assume that just because a name has "bot" in its name that there isnt someone in its driving seat and a big thx to kalthorine for my wife (tinybot) for putting peeps in the picture of things(hugs)

 

[Kalthorine]

FYI cruhar tinybot has a person driving the char and always has had,plz dont assume that just because a name has "bot" in its name that there isnt someone in its driving seat

Thanks for that Reardon... if you check the post immediately after Cruhar's, I am already aware that this is the case. Unattended buffbots are a no-no when there are other live players missing out, as I have said previously

 

[Aoln]

Lucky git Xeanor

 

[Gorryk]

Kalthorine isn't get paid for running these raids. They can be very stressful especially with large amount of people and if he chooses to limit the numbers then so be it. I posted my interest in the first page, and even took over (albeit briefly) when Kalthorine couldn't do the pre-req raid he'd posted. I still didn't get picked so I doubt there is any favouritism outside of the guild members who were stated would get preferential treatment in the original post. I can understand taking fairly opted groups as well as it's his first run through ml3. He plans to do another one for those who miss out so I'll just wait for the next one...

If I was Kalthorine thoguh, I'd look at some of the whines in this thread and probably enver want to run a raid again. As he is one of the only people who seems to want to run these lower ml raids regularly, you are really shooting yourself in the foot by making such a fuss over it, as he may not do another one if he gets enough aggro from it... If you can't wait until 2 weeks or whenever the rerun will be run your own...

 

[arguyle]

Signing up witk Kietera lvl 50 friar for a backup spot if anyone doesnt show up.

 

[Madin]

Hmm - checked through the whole of ML3 raid info on VOS with a fine toothed comb and I can't for the life of me see the bit where it says that 1 of the the raid pre-reqs requires you to throw your toys out of your pram and complain as loud as you can that you didnt get selected for the raid.

I put up with your original decision on how you selected people for the raid with good grace even though I was disappointed not to be chosen, but you've opened yourself up to a whole load of criticism now by allowing 1 extra person to just 'tag' along. If you make rules then imo you should stick to them.

 

[Oro]

Setting up ML3 raid for Thurs, following ML2 raid on Tues.

Not happy at way this has been handled, but its someone else's raid and they can do whatever they want. Not going to cry about it though, I'll do something positive. Will make post shortly when I get a chance.

 

[leviathane]

wow thxz for great help on this raid mate, nice to know signing up for araid is of use nowadays.

 

[Greatred]

Setting up ML3 raid for Thurs, following ML2 raid on Tues.

Cheers Roo

 

[civy]

Looks like it turned into more than 4fg and the rest of us who signed up just got shafted. Nice one

 

[leviathane]

Looks like it turned into more than 4fg and the rest of us who signed up just got shafted. Nice one

hehe aye nice work by kalth tbh.

 

[Greatred]

Looks like it turned into more than 4fg and the rest of us who signed up just got shafted. Nice one

Remind me never to sign up on first page again...

 

[Xeanor]

I even won a Ring of Moirai worth more than 25p nice raid Kalth

 

[FentorFrisson]

Remind me never to sign up on first page again...

lol so many whiners in alb - think i might go back to hib if this is how people moan at people who do raids for them

 

[Kalthorine]

lol so many whiners in alb - think i might go back to hib if this is how people moan at people who do raids for them

Although I appreciate the comment, I would respectfully suggest that all the pointless "You are whining", "No I'm not", "Yes you are", "Ya boo sucks you smell of pooh" posts cease on this thread please, as it is starting to leave a bad taste in the mouth. I accept that not all agreed with my signup decisions for the Raid (particularly the decision to allow Xeanor to tag along, for which criticism is well deserved - although I do stand by my reasoning for that I am resigned to a lot of not unreasonable flak for it), and although I may not agree with the points OR sentiments of some that posted, they are entitled to their opinion.

On a lighter note, thanks to all who DID attend the ML3 Raid on Sunday, which was a resounding triumph - even with a few LDs (sorry Guinneviere!), we still blasted through the whole of ML3 injust under four hours, and I would like to praise everyone concerned for their patience and willingness to listen to instructions AND follow them (despite Ouroboros trying to get a sneaky date with Antioos while no one was looking ). In particular, thanks to Azraal and Graendel for their guidance through the Temple of Twilight.

I am happy to see that there is another ML3 Raid going on this week - I have two spare Eel Stomachs after our Raid so woever is organising it is welcome to one of them. The other one I intend to keep for the next ML3 Raid I run in a couple of weeks time. As mentioned earlier, all who signed up on this thread but were left out on Sunday will get preferential (and unprejudiced) treatment when it comes to signing up for the next Raid, if they are interested.

And with that, hopefully, end of thread

 

[civy]

I don't see anyone moaning about someone who has done a raid for them.

 

[FentorFrisson]

I don't see anyone moaning about someone who has done a raid for them.

Waaaa mommy he said i coud play in his sandpit and now all his frends arre in the sandpit and he says i cant play in ti any more and i know he said i might not get in the sandpit but i dont care coz he must be nasty just coz he picked other peple to play in his sandpit he must be a naty man coz i know i should be in his sandpit and i hate him and boo hoo boo hoo and i nevr going to play wiv him again and i am grown up and stuff

 

[Kalthorine]

Please stop flaming eachother it is not helping

 

[civy]

lol so many whiners in alb - think i might go back to hib if this is how people moan at people who do raids for them

Don't let the door hit u on the way out.