ML3 RAID - Sunday 20th June, 3pm UK time, Aerus Haven

[leviathane]

incase i aint signed up alrdy, 48 mins.

 

[Kalthorine]

Go with 4 fg's m8, it won't make a difference really... Apart from some encounters being a bit easier to complete. And ofc 8 more ppl that can potentially go ld/get lost/not listen/be afk

OK, will try for 4FG then

I plan to put up the list of provisional group lists on Friday evening after 8pm, so be warned - if you haven't signed up by 7.30pm then you are unlikely to even make the reserve list.

And I have now run two separate ML3 pre-req group runs, with a third and final one planned for this Thursday evening. So if you haven't done even just one of the pre-reqs (including missing a cobra egg or Atlantean sword), then don't bother turning up on Sunday!

 

[Garaen]

Would like to join with my Friar.

 

[Kalthorine]

OK, with the sheer amount of interest shown in the ML3 Raid, there are already far more than 4FG who have expressed an interest in attending the Raid on Sunday, and so I only think it fair to list the provisional group lists now I have had chance to go through the list of interested parties.

My apologies to all of you who didn't make the cut this time - this is in no way a reflection on my opinion of your competence or personalities . I have tried to be as fair as possible in terms of group balance (eg. at least 2 tanks, 2 healers, 1 wizzy type caster, etc.)., not picking ALL level 50s, getting a balance between experienced people and those doing ML3 for the first time, etc. And if you haven't made it this time, rest assured you will be top of the list when I run another ML3 Raid in 3 weeks time or so as I hate letting people down (and I am a masochist...).

If anyone listed cannot make the Raid, please post here ASAP so that reserves can get a decent shot at attending the Raid. And if you haven't been chosen, by all means come along to Aerus Haven for 3pm on Sunday as from past experience of ML Raids there are bound to be a few no-shows.

People who do make it on Sunday (on time please!), please be prepared for a looooong haul - ML3 is even longer and more frustrating than a stretched anaconda made entirely of Rubix Cubes...

Group lists for Sunday as follows (people who are provisionally nominated as Group Leaders are in bold and listed at the head of each group - can these people please make sure you are online and in Aerus Haven by 2.45pm on Sunday if possible, and make a note of who is supposed to be in your group. If you would rather take a back seat and not be group leader on the day that is fine... but please let me know if that is the case)

Group 1:
1) Kalthorine (50 Pally) [Raid Lunatic... er, Leader]
2) Graendel (50 Ice Wiz)
3) Azraal (50 Reaver)
4) Alyssania (50 Pally)
5) Mauness (50 Rejuv Cleric)
6) Himbo (50 Rejuv Cleric)
7) Ravensturm (50 Enh Cleric)
8) Heriv (48 Mincer)

Group 2:
1) Nordex (50 Pally)
2) Aruwyn (50 Armsman)
3) Illume (50 Wizzy)
4) Amuth (50 Scout)
5) Xiism (50 Necro)
6) Shoalin (50 Friar)
7) Grimtin (50 Rejuv Cleric)
8) Aravia (50 Rejuv Cleric)

Group 3:
1) Darklis (50 Pally)
2) Xenolith (50 Pally)
3) Holty (48 Merc)
4) Byron (50 Mincer)
5) Tosen (50 Ice wiz)
6) Clericaltwith (50 Rejuv Cleric)
7) Kisaragi (50 Rejuv Cleric)
8) Wibblers (50 Enh Cleric)

Group 4:
1) Ouroboros (50 Friar)
2) Seoman (50 Pally)
3) Mithos (50 Pally)
4) Binks (50 Necro)
5) Tinyfeet (50 Inf)
6) Jenson (50 Rejuv Cleric)
7) Tinybot (50 Enh Cleric)
8) Uncanny (50 Cabby)

 

[Graendel]

Groups look solid. If everyone has sorted their prereqs - sword, egg, triton shaman necklace, moughart - we should have a nice Sunday raid together. Wishing everyone inc to ML3 the best of luck then.

 

[edp33]

49 Minstrel now btw,

hoping for 50 by Sunday, depends how many times Lost Stone of Arawn lets me repeat

Heriv

 

[BunzofSteel]

Uber Blockbot Signing up ..

Please consider Bunzofsteel for Ml3 grouping

 

[BunzofSteel]

Ref Uber Blockbot !!

ok im crap at this posting thing !! Bunzofsteel = 50 Pally !!

 

[starr]

Starrgeeza 47 Inf ML6 2L6 - has eel stomach

3-5fg = not a lot of difference performance wise in ToT, done raids with both.
More the merrier for Laodamedia tbh. She can go down in seconds or she can be a right witch and wipe 4fg.

Main problem with more ppl is afk's - aggro in ToT means that afk is a real killer even though it's been toned down. Add in the fact that you're constantly submerging and surfacing means it's a raid ppl need to be awake on.

On the other side of the coin, the sheer amount of aggro can make it hard/slow going for the smaller raids.

-feedback as requested.

edit> bah! couldn't get page 5 to load earlier so didn't see group lists - reserve space please.

 

[Mathal]

Nice to see I'm not on the list but 10 people signup after me is. And yes, I read the part of setting up balanced groups. But still...

 

[Kalthorine]

Nice to see I'm not on the list but 10 people signup after me is. And yes, I read the part of setting up balanced groups. But still...

Sorry, but one thing my limited time spent setting up and running Raids has taught me is that basing sign-up on "first-come-first-served" normally means "failed Raid", and then no one is happy. If, for example, that mentality were applied to this Raid we would have had 1.5FG worth of buffbots

Like I said, those who missed out this first time will get another shot later, and may get on this Raid anyway if we have a few no shows. But I won't be changing my Raid sign-up policy any time soon, as I have the best interests of the entire Raid party to think about. If that means a few toes get trodden on along the way, then I am sorry, but it is a price that in the end is worth paying IMHO.

 

[Mathal]

Aye, and I fully respect that. I'm just disappointed to miss yet another ML3 raid (4th one I can't join). Lots of :wub: to you though for organizing these raids.
Is there a date/time set yet for the next ML3 raid?

 

[Kalthorine]

Aye, and I fully respect that. I'm just disappointed to miss yet another ML3 raid (4th one I can't join). Lots of :wub: to you though for organizing these raids.
Is there a date/time set yet for the next ML3 raid?

No date and time set as of yet... but hearing that you have missed out on 4 successive ML3 Raids, please count yourself as already guaranteed a spot on it - and top of the list for reserves for Sunday as well.

 

[Kyra]

Although Sunday is Father's day here in the states, I'll show up to see if anyone bails on you Kal. And if all groups stay full, I'll go back to bed since 6:30 am wicked early lol.

BTW, I have all the prereqs done (have had them done for over a month) and Kyra is the only char I am working on ml now. *I only need 3.1, 3.8, and 3.10*

 

[Garrotte]

Eeekk can't believe I didn't put my name down for this
Been following the thread for ages.
Xiphi - 50 Cleric (40 Rej/36 Enh) needs full credit. Is not a bb btw!
If you got a space I would really appreciate it please :worthy:

 

[Morphable]

Keif 50 friar signing up!

 

[Tamron]

Sorry, but one thing my limited time spent setting up and running Raids has taught me is that basing sign-up on "first-come-first-served" normally means "failed Raid", and then no one is happy. If, for example, that mentality were applied to this Raid we would have had 1.5FG worth of buffbots

You know, that may have some actual meaning if you hadn't put people who had signed up later than others of the same class. But good luck anyway.

 

[Kalthorine]

You know, that may have some actual meaning if you hadn't put people who had signed up later than others of the same class. But good luck anyway.

OK Tamron, I know that as this is my Raid I have no actual need to explain myself, but as there is an easy response to your (understandable) state of miffed-ness hopefully this will help to set the matter straight in response to you post and pm:

From my original post:

Up until 3:00pm, the BG will only be open to those who have signed up for this Raid on this thread or my Guild webpage... ...(with preference being given to Guild members, and people with previous ML3 experience)

The Friar in question (Shoalin) signed up on the Events page a few minutes after I posted the thread - which I posted there before the one here. He is a member of my Guild, and I clearly posted that Guild members would get preference at the start.

The cabalist in question (Uncanny) had a 50% chance of getting in, as did you (and as, indeed, did all members of other class groups I shortlisted for the Raid on the Raid Group spreadsheet I have set up to ensure group balance and fairness). I don't have any contact with Uncanny in or out of the game, as I am sure the character in question will attest to. Unfortunately, on this occasion you missed out. As stated elsewhere on the thread I have never (nor would I ever) have a policy of "first come first served" for Raid sign-ups. This is why I advertise my Raids so far in advance with deadlines for posting replies. Otherwise, "first to sign up gets in" would be totally unfair to people who, for example, have no access to the Internet at the time the post advertising the Raid first appears.

Please don't think I am having a go at you, matey, I just thought you would appreciate an explanation in terms of your (understandable) annoyance at missing out. Please feel free to put your name forward for any future Raids I run, I can assure you that you stand an even chance of getting on board... in fact, as you were unsucceessful on this occasion you would be given preference for my next ML3 Raid as stated in the thread.

I hope that helps put your mind at rest

 

[Krissy]

^ is all I can say, nah not true infact.

You have no idea how much youve just made yourself look like a bad raid leader.

Should look beyond them afk alts in groups, your only taking 2.5fg's on a raid, 1.5fg's are afk alts/bb's.

Have fun.

 

[Kalthorine]

^ is all I can say, nah not true infact.

You have no idea how much youve just made yourself look like a bad raid leader.

Er... you're right, I have no idea! Please enlighten me - I have had absolutely zero complaints about how I have led any of the half dozen or so Raids I have organised and led over the last month, including quite a few (ML1 Raid a few weeks ago, ML2.10 Raid last night) that were run for others and that I did not need at all for myself (not even for ML xp).

I am not a fan of buff bots personally, and do not have one myself for that reason. But I do believe that simply because someone states that a character they are signing up a character for a Raid is a buff bot or alt, that does not somehow make that character "less valid" (and by implication "worth less") for inclusion in the Raid. Who am I to judge if a particular character is likely to be afk in the Raid? What gives me - or anyone else for that matter - the right to prejudge (which doesn't include the same first five letters of the word "prejudice" by coincidence) how someone will play their character on a Raid? What unwritten "law" is there that states "my character is better than theirs and I deserve to be on this Raid more just because I am fotm"?

As soon as any considerations start rearing their ugly heads other than group class balance and fairness to all who sign up for a Raid (whenever they happen to sign up) regardless of how other people might hold jaundiced views about those particular characters, then that - to my mind at least - makes for bad Raid organisation.

I appreciate that others may not share my views, and I respect any such views that are stated clearly and fairly with an attempt to substantiate them with at least something resembling evidence. Somehow, I don't think "nah not true infact" (er, what fact?) quite qualifies there... As I attempted to in the previous post, I am happy to provide an explanation of my reasoning to a seemingly justified criticism. Valid questioning of a Raid Leader's thinking is perfectly acceptable, and should be encouraged. However, sulking and whining because you didn't get on a Raid because there wasn't enough room, and trying to hide that behind a criticism of the Raid Leader, is not...

 

[Krissy]

Infact I never intended on getting on your raid and only viewed this thread to withdrawn my request to join, I couldnt care less if I was or wasnt on the list.

But when holding a fixed limate of groups your willing to take its very annoying for ALL when you see characters that WILL be afk during most if not all of the raid due to them being loaded either Duel booted or on another comp.

A character not being fotm isnt a reason not to allow it on a raid, I totaly agree there but I also beleive that buffbots and afk alts do make them "less valid" due to what they are, afk characters that contribute very little as they are often not played, they are /stick bots.

Thats my main gripe that youve rescricted the numbers that can go on your raid but have done so including "less valid" characters. And im sure you can see where im coming from.

 

[Kalthorine]

Thats my main gripe that youve restricted the numbers that can go on your raid but have done so including "less valid" characters. And im sure you can see where im coming from.

I certainly can now you have qualified your argument, Krissy... and I thank you for your reasoned response. As such, as promised, I will attempt to answer it. Lets take a look at the so-called "guaranteed" afks as you put it (still not something I agree is guaranteed at all, but lets give you the benefit of the doubt for now) in the Raid make-up:

1. Buffbots: In the Raid, there are a total of ten clerics spread out between groups, of which THREE out of the 32 group members (9% of the Raid) were posted as being buff bots (and no more than one allocated per group). Now even if, by some quirk of fate, all three were afk at the same time, we still have the situation of a group being one person afk with tanks and other group members fully buffed with high spec buffs, which to me hardly seems to be a major issue.
   
   
2. Dual Logged characters: I make it two people out of thirty (7% of Raid attendees)... Graendel/Himbo and Ouroboros/Binks (Tinybot/Tinyfeet are two different people). In the case of Graendel/Himbo it was a deliberate choice on my point due to it enabling us to have a power font on the Raid AND someone with considerable experience of ML3, which I do not have. In the case of Ouroboros/Binks, they were treated as a single PERSON when I did random checks to see who got on the Raid - i.e. signing up two characters did not give Ouroboros/Binks twice the chance of getting on the Raid.
   
   
3. I would also like to point out that I originally planned to take only 3FG on the Raid to keep it manageable... and INCREASED that limit to 4FG because it since proved so popular. To be honest, I wish I was confident enough about my Raid Leadership abilities to take everyone, but I would rather keep the numbers down to ensure a smoothly run Raid than risk taking loads of people and losing a grip on things. But as stated, I WILL be running another Raid in 2-3 weeks time, and those who did not get on it this time will get first pick next time. I can hardly see how I can be any fairer than that.

So, as I hope you can see, this was not done blindly with no thought for the Raid construction. And as I hope you can also see, saying that we are going into the Raid with 1.5FG of afk people is a little silly, to say the least.

Phew! I really should have just said "Its my Raid STFU" to begin with, shouldn't I! hehe... doubt that will ever happen tho, as I like waffling too much . Seriously though, I do hope that it is apparent that the final group lists I posted for this Raid are neither biased nor random, and that I have at least attempted to be fair to everyone (and answer any reasonable criticisms of my methodology)... even if I have not managed to please everyone as a result.

 

[FentorFrisson]

Phew! I really should have just said "Its my Raid STFU" to begin with, shouldn't I! hehe... doubt that will ever happen tho, as I like waffling too much . Seriously though, I do hope that it is apparent that the final group lists I posted for this Raid are neither biased nor random, and that I have at least attempted to be fair to everyone (and answer any reasonable criticisms of my methodology)... even if I have not managed to please everyone as a result.

ROFL I woulda said stfu, but i woudlnt have done a raid anyway coz im too lazy

i joined the forum to ask what makes agood raid leader but i shouldnt have bothered starting a post on it i should hav just read this thread. i dont know if u r a good raid leader or not kathorine but i hope if i am on a raid my own raid is as calm as you when when people ask him lots of annoying qestions. good luck with the raid everyone and thx to all who askd all the questions coz kaths answers at least let me see how tricky it is to plz evryone and how much thaught goes into organising a big raid. rather you than me! cya

 

[Kalthorine]

i dont know if u r a good raid leader or not kathorine

LOL! No, I don't know whether KATHORINE is a good Raid Leader or not either, since my name is Kalthorine!

hehe... my secret is finally out! Iam only organising Raids so that people start getting my name (and gender) right!

Thx for the nice comments anyway Fentor - I know I shouldn't rise to the bait most of the time and would be better off keeping my big trap shut, but thanks for at least noticing that I am trying to answer people's questions about the Raid Organisation (despite the fact that I am probably failing miserably!).

 

[Cirandi]

I dont know if u r a good raid leader or not kathorine but i hope if i am on a raid my own raid is as calm as you when when people ask him lots of annoying qestions.

Oh, he's a good raid leader alright... I've been on most raids he's organized and Kalthorine's calmness in stressfull situations should be put up as a standard for many other raid leaders to live up to.

for doing this for us Kal.

 

[civy]

I wanted to go on this raid but didn’t put my name on the list. My Fault. Your raid your rules but taking bb’s instead of live players especially when the bb owner is also taking another char is and to be blunt bloody stupid.

I have a ml 4 bb and wouldn’t dream of taking a active players spot up.

Next time you are on a keep take and ask for a pf and the only cleric who has it is sat at a pk watching a wall I hope you see the error of your way.

I applaud you for leading what can be a most frustrating raid but I think a few of your rule choices are Ill thought out.

 

[Kalthorine]

Your raid your rules but taking bb’s instead of live players especially when the bb owner is also taking another char is and to be blunt bloody stupid

And if a bb owner was taking another character you are right, it would be bloody stupid. But as that isn't happening on this Raid... <sigh>... are we paying attention? :touch:

I am really struggling to understand why people aren't getting this (or aren't reading the thread well enough to be able to)... there is not one single person attending the Raid who is bringing one character plus a buffbot along with them, nor would I allow this. Not one - please read my former posts on this thread to avoid this kind of misinterpretation of the situation.

At the risk of wearing out the relevant keys on my keyboard I will say this ONE LAST TIME: There are a total of THREE enhance clerics coming along on the Raid, and each of them is the ONLY character that particular person is bringing, giving me no reason to assume they will be spending time afk (since, until they give me reason to think otherwise, I will give Raid attendees the benefit of the doubt that they will be active members, as opposed to cynically assuming that just because they are enhance specced they will automatically spend 90% of the time scratching their bottoms and pickling their toenail clippings IRL). And if any of them ARE unacceptably afk during the Raid (as will be made clear when the Raid Rules are explained at the start of the Raid) then they will find themselves left behind pretty darn quickly and reserves brought in.

 

[Kalthorine]

P.S. No afk buff bots on this Raid. Ya know, just in case anyone missed that point...

 

[civy]

BB’s have their place. That’s outside a group doing the odd emergency rez. For a bb to cast anykind of decent heal they have to use large ones. About the same value as a rej clerics normal heal. Can you say aggro magnet. AFK is probably a safer place for a bb to be.

I don't see why if you want to take bb's you dont allow them to join the BG and follow behind. Giving their spots to real clerics.

 

[Aruwynn]

Group 2:
1) Nordex (50 Pally)
2) Aruwyn (50 Armsman)
3) Illume (50 Wizzy)
4) Amuth (50 Scout)
5) Xiism (50 Necro)
6) Shoalin (50 Friar)
7) Grimtin (50 Rejuv Cleric)
8) Aravia (50 Rejuv Cleric)

kinda confused me there, i'm aruwynn and a sorc
or there must be another aruwyn (single N) i missed