Missing Classes

[Col|]

I agree we do excell in PvE, but we do struggle alot in RvR, I'm undecided about the resist chants tbh, to many different situations call for one specific resist chant and try changing them to fit say 2 or 3 of them . As for max chants, I personally think thats a waste of time atm, since Epic armor maxes nearly all our abilities the chants we have, like both armor buffs, have no effect at all, maybe after they sort everything out and we can respec I might do max chants, but that's gonna be hard to do and also have say 50 slash and 42 shield, which I will have if I ever reach 50. I'll leave the subject of piety alone, bit to large a can of worms for me

On a general class note, I think each realm has good classes, and each are designed to support one of the others in that realm, so if you want to do well in RvR then it is better to have a balanced group, rather than something thats been cobbled together, thats just my opinion though

 

[Galatea]

While this seemd to be the "My class is gimped everyone elses is uber" thread, i'll put my penny in...

I sometimes piss and moan about wizards being at a disadvantage to others casters (we can blow shit up, and thats about it) But, when i do think about it, that's my job as a fire wizard, to blow shit up. Other times i do think we drew the short straw...runemasters gain exactly the same things we do and more, there's nothing we have that they don't, but, there's things they have that we don't, just the nature of balance i suppose.

When i think about it, wizards aren't all that bad, i find it very hard to say balanced, but that might very be the word i'm looking for, Maybe it's just my spec (50 fire/7 ice/18 earth) And thats simply to do enough damage to scratch someone (mids maybe, they just have daft heat res, and hibs - i don't know someone tell me what res's are like there).

Although something that might be nice is shorter casting times for spells i the fire spec, we're supposed to be underlings of the great Merlin for gods sake (darkness spec runies have just a powerful dd's, with less casting time)
Mostly i'm just jealous of runemasters because they generally rock harder than wizards do <cries>

So please, flame me, tell me that wizards are better in some way and make me feel better <wipes tear from eye>

 

[old.LandShark]

Darkness runies have better DD's, but not in the same line as their bolts. Let's keep comparisons valid please...

To the original poster:

Hmm. You ask where HIBERNIA's healer/fighter is?
Have you ever played this game?

Alright, let's turn this round a bit....
Where's albion's insta ranged AE CC class? (Druids and bards both are such in 1.51, and healers are right now)
Where's albion's combined boltcaster, PBT and nearsight class?
Where's albion's tank with speed and damage adder?


No, i don't take any of the above shit seriously, but the original poster evidently does.
"steallhing mezzer" - rofl.
Ok, if i'm a stealthing mezzer then a thane is a chain-wearing tank with caster-calibre nukes. A warden is a scale-wearing tank with PBT and self-damage add. A runemaster is a leather-wearing boltcaster with speed, PBT, nearsight, root and GTAE.

Repeat: comparisons of this type are BOLLOCKS.

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Albion simply has too many classes, leaving our abilities dispersed. THat's life, and we deal with it. The lack of high end AE mez for us is tragic though; Mid healers (and certainly bards) outnumber our sorcs by far.

 

[Troryn]

Originally posted by Solid


What the f**k are you on? None of our stealthers get Magic.

GAH DOH HUH, my mistake was thinking of hibernia, can´t keep the two other realms seperate to much alike (small smelly ugly chars in both, AND big dumb ugly chars in both ;p)

hehe

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by Solid


What the f**k are you on? None of our stealthers get Magic.

Errr, Hunters get Beastcraft Thats a self af buff, dex/qui buff, charm pet, super sprint and some pet buffs. And thats magic

 

[Troryn]

Originally posted by old.chesnor


Errr, Hunters get Beastcraft Thats a self af buff, dex/qui buff, charm pet, super sprint and some pet buffs. And thats magic

my hero <smile>

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Turamber
I don't think we're gimped in PvE, but Paladins could do with some extras in RvR. The ward chants are very nice - but don't always work too well. Last night I was chanting spirit resist (had a 45% resist to mezz) but still got mezzed and stood there like a muppet for two minutes or so.

Also, the fact that we can be outfought by a skald of even level is utterly ridiculous. Not that I'm calling for skalds to be nerfed, mind, but an increase in our hit points/combat abilities would be very nice. Maybe even a short range shout attack ... we are supposed to be singers after all. My own singing IRL has been known to hurt people

We're brilliant battle field rezzers, which can make it hard for an enemy force to kill our side off, and - when we max our biggest strength our chants - we give a lot to our group, but we do struggle in 1v1 situations to a ridiculous degree.

1. Resists don't do jack against mezz/stun till 1.51
2. Skalds are a bit more damage oriented (and have wacky mezz spells), Paladins are (apart from speed) more group friendly...
I'd have thought they'd hit harder/have better defence though... seems wrong if it's not the case.

3. Aha you mentioned the groups...
1v1 isn't very often thankfully

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Galatea

So please, flame me, tell me that wizards are better in some way and make me feel better <wipes tear from eye>

Currently fire wizards ain't the masters of damage... they should be...

1.52 fire base and spec DDs get casting time reduced to 2.6 instead of 3.0.

Then you actually do more damage than every other caster (finally).

And earth gets a boost, so your 18 secondary spec will get you a ground target AoE, an AoE root and a DoT (low spec so not very good... but the root can be a lifesaver) in addition to your other stuff.

Also you can cast the base fire + spec fire + spec earth bolts all together (currently you can only bolt twice... spec fire/earth are both on same timer).

It's amusing the number of posts by eldritches complaining that their utility spells (nearsight/mezz/debuffs/etc.) are useless and that they want more damage like the wizard

To put my oar in... my most hated spell would have to be instant aoe stun.. instant crowd control seems very cheesy to me (especially at range 1500.. the smaller range stuff is a bit better but still just that little bit Stiltonesque)... there should be at least two seconds of slow-motion-movement towards the caster screaming 'noooooooooooo......' (you can picture it surely) before stopping and staring into space

 

[- Pathfinder -]

/em checks range of smite - 1300
/em checks range of single stun - 1000

Range of healer AE stun - 1500

Gawd

 

[Flimgoblin]

You forgot the 'instant' there

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Originally posted by Fingoniel
You forgot the 'instant' there

Thought it was bad enough allready; no need to add that

 

[Vell]

Bah, if you think playing a healer is so uber, you try it yourself. There is a reason no-one in Albion plays sorc's, and few play full rejuv clerics, and that's because mezzing and healing isn't exactly the funnest thing to do. And that all that a healer can do.

A group at the lair let me leech from them the other day - allowed me to hit the mobs with my hammer. Woo-hoo an average of 5 damage each swing. Yippee. And that's ALL the offence I have.

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Last time I checked, Prydwen was clocked at 26-28 lv 50 healers, and 4 lv 50 sorcs. Say what you want, your mez/stuns are uber in RvR, and the number of healers greatly outnumber the number of sorcs (even when many of these healers are inactive).

 

[old.giriam]

In all fairness I dont find it strange that people complain about the minstrel;

- Its the only rogue class that can use chainarmor
- It has everything from ae mez to grp runspeed in *one* specc line (same goes for the skald aswell) where most others have them spread around in 2 or 3.
- Its the only (as far as i know) class with instant cast stun.
- Its the only class with combined stealth and speed.
- Its the only stealthed mezer in the game.

In my (and a lot of others) opinion the minstrel can simply do too much. spread the love around a little, dont pack *everything* into one class. and *if* you have going to make an obvious powerhouse in one realm (stealth + ae mez? come on') then you'd better make sure the other realms have it aswell.

G, president of the "Nerf the minstrel" secret society.

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Originally posted by old.giriam
- Its the only rogue class that can use chainarmor

Fair enough. They get a crap Evade as a tradeoff, and the Skald has chain as well.

- It has everything from ae mez to grp runspeed in *one* specc line (same goes for the skald aswell) where most others have them spread around in 2 or 3.

They don't have AE mez in 1.49. Otherwise this is entirely true.

- Its the only (as far as i know) class with instant cast stun.

Healer, 1500 ranged 11 sec AE stun

- Its the only class with combined stealth and speed.

They also have pathetic damage output, and lack many of the bards awesome songs. The speed classes are all different, live with it.

- Its the only stealthed mezer in the game.

They still can't mez while stealthed.

I personally find it queer that Mythic nerfed the clerics PBAE mez and gave minstrels an AE, but that's their call. Yes, minstrels are powerful, but so are skalds and bards, even thoguh the latter needs a group to shine.

 

[old.giriam]

Originally posted by - Pathfinder -

Healer, 1500 ranged 11 sec AE stun

im going to cry now. :\

They still can't mez while stealthed.

I know that, it is still an insane advantage though. everyone pretty much agrees that at the moment mez is what dominates the game, and if you can stealth into mez range, well..

powerful, but so are skalds and bards, even thoguh the latter needs a group to shine.

none of those have stealth do they? bards dont even have instants (although they are comming), have their magic spread over *3* specclines, cannot wear chain, doesnt have more than evade II either. All of that would be ok, its the stealth that puts it over the top.

G, president of the "Lets give minstrels SEE HIDDEN" fan club.

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Skalds get a much higher dmage output (melee) with their twohand weapons, and they get ressit chants and damage add.

Bards get ENDURANCE song (Hibs might not realise this, obviously, but this is so uber it's silly in PvE; for long duration RvR battles it's handy as well). Bards also get an instant AE mez in a later patch, buffs, the ability to rez and heal. Bards get to be the best PvE class by far of these, and the tradeoff is that they suck as a solo RvR class.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Currently stealth is just that little bit too good in combination with things like range 2300 arrows or mezz-songs etc.

(hrm, mincer stealths up and mezzes _one_ of you over a 3s cast time - whilst moving admittedly -...

or healer blinks at you from range 1500 and stuns your entire group for 11 seconds (followed by an insta aoe mezz for a minute afterwards of course )

not sure I see much difference except one affects one person, the other an entire group (if they're stuck together)

Minstrels can run away easier, and get to choose their fights... Healers can render more people inactive, they can't run around solo though.

Mincer/Archer stealth gets nerfed next patch anyway, so worry not, your shadowblades will be splatting the mincers left right and centre if they try the stealth-mezz trick.

 

[Galatea]

<huggles fingoniel>

Almost feel better now


all I need now is that "Insta cast kill all in 1500 radius atomic nuke" But somehow i don't think that will happen

 

[old.Greggor]

Originally posted by Vell
Each and every realm has very powerful classes. Each and every realm also has very weak classes.

Albion has the cleric, the minstrel, and the scout, but also has the cabalist and mercenary.
Midgard has the runemaster, skald and healer, but also has the spiritmaster and shaman, and the worst primary tank: warrior.
Hibernia has the enchanter, bard, and hero, but also has the blademaster and warden.


SB's, as well as the other stealthers, will no longer remain hidden after killing. This removes them from the 'uberclass' list. I wouldn't have said a thane was particularly uber either.

Bards will also get insta mezzes with 1.51, which moves them up to the uberclass list.


However, this does not change the fact the Midgard has no fighter/healer. Albion has Friar and Hib has the Warden, granted these classes may not be the most played ever, but they still exist. Whether they are good or not is irrelevant, we still want the opportunity to play them.

Hence me moving to Alb Pryd to play a friar, and it the best fun I've had for ages! I just have one complaint from playing a friar - the bloody lvl 15 trainer quest!

i will just coment on the fighters

Warroir seem to be the best all round fifgter in the game
2 handad or single handed hammer with shild of 42 for stun and parry of 39 best xp/rvr tank? plus u get more base str and con for dwarf norseman and troll therefore more base hp ? Not many ppl play warrior because thane and skalds are more fun ? Even thou a thane/skald are not a match for a warrior/hero/armsman in melee

Hero u either lw/Cs or shield and blunt but if u make a hero that can do both u have alot less damage than a warrior ? Oh but we do have stag that last for 30 sec every 30 mins?

Same for armsman either 2h/polearm or shield and slash ? but there bonus is plate armour?

 

[old.Greggor]

Originally posted by Turamber
I don't think we're gimped in PvE, but Paladins could do with some extras in RvR. The ward chants are very nice - but don't always work too well. Last night I was chanting spirit resist (had a 45% resist to mezz) but still got mezzed and stood there like a muppet for two minutes or so.

Resists dont spot u getting mezzed/rooted/stunned just reduce the lenght of it? Not sure if that works 100% i have 31% SPIRT RESIST BASE but this dont work till 1.51

Was thinking of getting the RA resistance to mezzed/rooted/stun 60% + 31% = 91% reduction in mess time nice with a warden spirt buff 8% will give a 99% reduction un mezzedable

Come on 1.51

 

[Flimgoblin]

Spirit resist won't do jack in 1.51 either (unless yer fighting a cleric)

Bard and Healer mezzes are in Body damage type... (check the spell lists)

 

[Vell]

Originally posted by old.Greggor


i will just coment on the fighters

Warroir seem to be the best all round fifgter in the game
2 handad or single handed hammer with shild of 42 for stun and parry of 39 best xp/rvr tank? plus u get more base str and con for dwarf norseman and troll therefore more base hp ? Not many ppl play warrior because thane and skalds are more fun ? Even thou a thane/skald are not a match for a warrior/hero/armsman in melee

Hero u either lw/Cs or shield and blunt but if u make a hero that can do both u have alot less damage than a warrior ? Oh but we do have stag that last for 30 sec every 30 mins?

Same for armsman either 2h/polearm or shield and slash ? but there bonus is plate armour?

Hmmm, I still stand by me saying that warriors are the weakest of the three.

Shield and parry do nada in RvR, because they're broken, so having high specs in them is pointless.

Heros can spec in celtic spear - which has a much higher damage output than a two hander in midgard. They also get stag form, which is a huge advantage.

Armsmen, again, get to spec in polearms, which have huge damage output (the highest output of all weapons in the game if specced right), plus they have plate armour which is also a big advantage.

Albion also has highlanders, who have both high str and high con, whereas trolls only get the high str, and dwarves only get the high con, so for Midgard it's an either/or choice, but albions get both. Hibernia of course get the bad choices for tanks, but then hibernia is the magic realm.

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Norse = Highlander

 

[old.LandShark]

omg, nerf highlanders....

Get your sodding facts straight....
Omg nerf midgard and hibernia, they both have rogue-suited races!

.....munchkin

 

[Flimgoblin]

Warriors have nothing unique... they're Thanes without stormcalling... they're Skalds without songs...

They do more damage/take more punishment yes, but no funky abilities or weapons...

Heros can use Celtic Spears that no-one else gets, Armsmen get polearms that no-one else gets. This is the problem with warriors.

(I suppose they can always spec throwing axe... but come on )

 

[ivan_tribbiani]

Originally posted by Vell


Hmmm, I still stand by me saying that warriors are the weakest of the three.

edit : Warriors have the most HPs of the 3

Shield and parry do nada in RvR, because they're broken, so having high specs in them is pointless.

edit: in Zergs maybe.. but have you ever tried 1 vs 1 with high shield and parry warrior ? <to illustrate even more try duelling a scout with 42 shield see how well you do at hitting him/her >

Heros can spec in celtic spear - which has a much higher damage output than a two hander in midgard. They also get stag form, which is a huge advantage.


edit: Stag form maybe an advantage but lack of HP and the spears speed <its very slow>. Once again slow high damage dealing weapons are good for zerging.

Armsmen, again, get to spec in polearms, which have huge damage output (the highest output of all weapons in the game if specced right), plus they have plate armour which is also a big advantage.


edit: Hopefully hammers get vs Plate bonus in coming patch.

Albion also has highlanders, who have both high str and high con, whereas trolls only get the high str, and dwarves only get the high con, so for Midgard it's an either/or choice, but albions get both. Hibernia of course get the bad choices for tanks, but then hibernia is the magic realm.


edit: generally speaking the starting stats dont matter much, its how you distribute the 30 points extra that matters imho.

Just a couple of thoughts

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Mythic proclaims that the roblem with Parry/Block is that in RvR, fighting someone who's part of the group coutns as fighting the whole group for blocking purpsoes (and the chance to block goes down with multiple attacker; go figure what happens when there's 8 in a group). Of course they still block/parry like they should in duels, as people are often ungrouped for those.

 

[Vell]

Of course, for a warrior to get into a 1-1 duel in the first place would more than likely need to involve the duels being set up beforehand. This is against the Code of Conduct and could get you a warning on your account.
Scouts, of course, are much more likely to be able to get into a situation where you can have a 1-1 duel legally.

Slow hard hitting weapons are better in any RvR situation, because the first hit has no delay. The quicker weapons are just playing catchup, all the time. The only advantage of a quicker weapon is that you can get reactionary styles off - but in RvR a warrior will very rarely block or parry (see above notes), and therefore reactionary styles are never/very seldom used.

The hammer-plate advantage is actually nerfed in the coming patches, so that's kinda irrelevant. Of course, not all warriors use hammers anyway. And thrust weapons get advantage over our chain, so that comment really is null and void.

I retract my highlander comment - I thought, for some reason, that they had 80str/80con as starting stats, but I was wrong. But Ivan, if you think the starting stats are irrelevant, why do you think you don't see many kobold warriors running around?