Mincer changes?

[TheBinarySurfer]

lol minstrels dont need love... skald maybe needs dps increase a small amount but minstrels totally own..
Aoe mezz
Demezz
Aoe amnezia
2x dd
1x stun
Speed
Health
Regen
Abla

You have no idea what youre talking about. Play one against a competent player and then go eat your words matey...

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

Your clueless post seemed rather boring after all.

Since you havn't played a minstrel in a group or solo your opinons count for nothing, not a squat mate. While on the other hand mine and others do count, we might not agree but they count.

 

[Azathrim]

Since you havn't played a minstrel in a group or solo your opinons count for nothing, not a squat mate. While on the other hand mine and others do count, we might not agree but they count.

Since you haven't played against mincers in a stealther enviroment your opinion counts for nothing, nate a squat mate. While on the other hand mine and others do count, we might not agree but they count.

See how stupid that kind of argumentation is? And you expect me to think your argument is nothing more than childish whining?

 

[Illtar]

mincer is op enough, they need change nothing tbh

says the healer, classic...

 

[Illtar]

2bh only 1 music class really needs love and thats the Bard

all 3 music classes need boosts.

 

[Illtar]

Isnt that the same for all hybrid class, a skald / thane / bard / reaver / hunter etc etc etc would suffer the same.

Thanes can just grapple and completely obliterate the Inf though. Yes its amusing as hell.

And Skalds suck just as bad as minstrels, we already covered that.

Reavers are fairly weak aswell, they can dump to win though.

 

[Illtar]

Mate, fight kilsimba, spinesrput, Galid, censi and you will get raped. I killed you when I was rr3 my friend. You won't stand a chance when I'm rr7 and ml10, wich then is a fair comparsion since you rr7 and ml10.

A decent ranger will kill you, trust me.

If you use malice on a ranger ur in trubble and if you don't ur in trubble aswell ... good magic res + aom3 + the fz+fa2+ip2+ps+36% body will make your eyes bleed.

Though I'm glad your still having fun, I had my best times playing minstrel, kinda envy your enthusiasm (sp? )

The funny part about this is: Rangers are pretty sad, but minstrels are even sadder.

Its not like a Ranger stands a chance vs a Merc, Valk or Arms or anything similar.

 

[Illtar]

I haven't played a mincer, no.

Whetever it's the mincer or the duo partner that becomes OP is irrelevant really. The matter of fact is, that Albion can field the most powerful stealther groups purely due to the mincer.

As long as that's an issue, Mincers needs a nerf.

Have you ever played against an infil/mincer duo or are you just spewing crap?

Any decent tank duo will completely smoke a INf+Minstrel duo, sorry

 

[Cadelin]

Any decent tank duo will completely smoke a INf+Minstrel duo, sorry

Any decent fg will completely smoke any decent tank duo, sorry.

Maybe you should engage your brain before posting? An Inf+Minstrel duo can in general avoid fights they don't want to be in. Even if they are uncovered the minstrel still has SoS+speed5 which gives them a good chance of getting away. A correct comparison would be to compare the minstrel+inf with any other stealther duo and when you do that you find that they perform very well.

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

Since you haven't played against mincers in a stealther enviroment your opinion counts for nothing, nate a squat mate. While on the other hand mine and others do count, we might not agree but they count.

See how stupid that kind of argumentation is? And you expect me to think your argument is nothing more than childish whining?

Is this a joke? Or are you the joke? Are you illitaret?

I got an almost rr6 ranger in kickass temp, I got a almost rr8 NS in kickass temp and I got an almost rr8 minstrel in kickass temp ( outdated since 1.85 ).

So in other words, yes I do know what I'm talking about while you got zero, none, 0, squat of a clue.

Now got anything further to add to the discussion or you done trolling?

To answer that random claim that I'm whining, where in any post do I say I whine? I do not play my minstrel anymore since it is shit in 8v8 shit in solo shit in RvR in general.

I come with accurate ideas of how to improve the class while trying to maintain balance, minstrels need a tad more dps, and higher defence; I and other proposed shield spec, and added spec pts to make it possible to raise slash/thrust to 39 for an added WS of rougly 20-25%.
Sorry to burst your bubble *again* but your just rambling mate.

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

The funny part about this is: Rangers are pretty sad, but minstrels are even sadder.

Its not like a Ranger stands a chance vs a Merc, Valk or Arms or anything similar.

A ranger can kill any class in the game who got poor defence since we can opt for a high defence ourself while maintning a high DPS.

Next.

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

Any decent fg will completely smoke any decent tank duo, sorry.

Maybe you should engage your brain before posting? An Inf+Minstrel duo can in general avoid fights they don't want to be in. Even if they are uncovered the minstrel still has SoS+speed5 which gives them a good chance of getting away. A correct comparison would be to compare the minstrel+inf with any other stealther duo and when you do that you find that they perform very well.

I agree that a few patches ago minstrel + inf duo was very strong on the stealth scene. Now they are not. Personally I always found it challenging to fight stealth duos like Slytale and Galid ( NS + Ranger ). Had probably a 50/50 win/loss ratio vs them.
Then I can admit to killing FGs of Saruman Hand newbies back in the day with an infil mate, but then again they were not among the sharpest of tools.

 

[Gamah]

I killed 7 level 50 RR1's/2's rog's solo with my minstrel back in the day..best fight ever Gamah vs FG = Gamah kills 7 xD

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

I killed 7 level 50 RR1's/2's rog's solo with my minstrel back in the day..best fight ever Gamah vs FG = Gamah kills 7 xD

xD

Yah that was the golden days, camping outside DL ( on pryd ) and then jumping ppl at alline and pwning them


What people in this thread and mythic aswell need to realize is, that this was 3 yers ago. The class has hardly developed at all during that time, compared to other stealhers, caster and heavy tanks.

 

[Gamah]

xD

Yah that was the golden days, camping outside DL ( on pryd ) and then jumping ppl at alline and pwning them


What people in this thread and mythic aswell need to realize is, that this was 3 yers ago. The class has hardly developed at all during that time, compared to other stealhers, caster and heavy tanks.

What people also need to remeber is that, Mythic should balance for the Average Joe minstrel. People like me who spent far to much time playing the class and learnign the best way to use abilities are obviously going to have storys like "I killed 4 rangers solo at once" Because to be fair at one point in my life all I did was play daoc (what a waste )

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

What people also need to remeber is that, Mythic should balance for the Average Joe minstrel. People like me who spent far to much time playing the class and learnign the best way to use abilities are obviously going to have storys like "I killed 4 rangers solo at once" Because to be fair at one point in my life all I did was play daoc (what a waste )

/Agree

All of us who played the class for a long time could make it sing - although you beat me by 1 Gamah - only ever did 6 rr1/2's in one fight sadly.

Damn.Feel.Epeen.Shrinking!

Joking aside - Joe Average minstrel is worthless in 8v8 and free realm points in solo. And is relegated to sitting down firing siege in a keep mostly (try using AE mezz from the wall with that nice 2.8-3.5 sec cast time [dependent on dex etc] and see how often you die - a caster can hit you 3 times before the mezz has even fired usually). Only other thing you can do is flutemezz people (which theres a few tricks for but how often does one single target mezz on a fixed 3 second timer affect a zerg enough to make a difference?) since on the higher level keeps our stun/dd doesnt reach anyone not stood directly against the keep wall.

The top 10% of the playerbase can just about manage to hold their own by timer dumping - and herein lies the HUGE HUGE flaw in Mythic's class design in general for daoc - many classes are ENTIRELY timer dependent - Champion being another one thats a good example of this.

IMO all Active RA's should be removed from the game and balanced with better more sensible passive versions (IP gives a constant passive increased heal rate for example HoT style, or MoC is always in effect but gives a 1/3 chance not to be interrupted at the max level etc - i'm not saying these ideas should be gospel i'm saying the principle is right).

Then change it so you can only have ONE effect active from an artifact at any time. Prevents the WH/SoM stacking whine in the Minstrels case.

Finally rip out the ability to stack MLs - again make it so ONE ml positive effect can work at a time.

Do all of the above, suddenly it becomes possible to try make classes balanced without giving them timered abilities. The RA/ML/Artifact system is flawed to the core in its implementation and coding - and given how late in the day for the game it is I can't see a massive revamp being done.

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

Good points surfer.

And what you say about averge joe minstrel is 100% right. Imagine Jimmehtheminstrel killing anyone in rvr with his minstrel.

 

[Illtar]

A ranger can kill any class in the game who got poor defence since we can opt for a high defence ourself while maintning a high DPS.

Next.

A ranger cant touch a high RR sword Valk, sorry

And high defense, please

how is evade 3 high defense...

EDIT: reread what you wrote: So you agree rangers cant touch high defense classes then? And yes Rangers can kill most low defense classes, but really, who cant? (Except for minstrels ofc)

 

[Illtar]

I killed 7 level 50 RR1's/2's rog's solo with my minstrel back in the day..best fight ever Gamah vs FG = Gamah kills 7 xD

Reminds me of Sorc+cabalist vs FG low RRs :X back in OF...

people died to assist debuff nuking before they had any idea what hit them

 

[mikke]

This is a super interesting thread tbh

We get to see what people think of the mincer, both the ones that plays the class and the ones that fight it.. Its fun that people actiually think they stkill are OP

 

[Sneakers|Matri]

A ranger cant touch a high RR sword Valk, sorry

And high defense, please

how is evade 3 high defense...

EDIT: reread what you wrote: So you agree rangers cant touch high defense classes then? And yes Rangers can kill most low defense classes, but really, who cant? (Except for minstrels ofc)

Your missing the point of this thread completely.

Not sure I'm gonna bother explaining this in detail for..is there any point/genuine interst or are you trolling? :touch:

 

[Illtar]

Your missing the point of this thread completely.

Not sure I'm gonna bother explaining this in detail for..is there any point/genuine interst or are you trolling? :touch:

you was the one derailing it, and yes i have no problem comprehending what the thread is about...

I already said i agreed about minstrels (and skalds) were lacking pretty badly..

And then we carried on discussing other classes, including how a ranger fares against heavy defense classes. And i will hold my claim, that given same skill/RR a Ranger stands zero chance against a strong defensive tank.

 

[Sneakers|Matri]

you was the one derailing it, and yes i have no problem comprehending what the thread is about...

I already said i agreed about minstrels (and skalds) were lacking pretty badly..

And then we carried on discussing other classes, including how a ranger fares against heavy defense classes. And i will hold my claim, that given same skill/RR a Ranger stands zero chance against a strong defensive tank.

Man your just pure comedy.

1st you talk about valks, wich I never mentioned, then you toss in heavy tanks, wich I again never mentioned. Wanna discuss how rangers fare vs UFOs next? Or maybe rangers VS global heating?

Seems you got no clue of what I'm talking about thus' I'm not gonna waste my or your time by explaining; if you think rangers only defence is evade III then fine, lets leave it at that.

 

[Kahvi]

Haha, at the clueless posts tbh.

And Euinar how many of those rps is not PLed in a FL grp/alliance group tbh? Be honest about it.

Erm.. yeah i had some nice groups, tho if i was that sh it/gimped as player or class im suprised people even wanted me there.

I dont post much here.. cause i think its totaly pointless reading posts like the one you made here Mat, in a place where we supose to talk about changes. I also see alittle jealousy from your side. Ive earned my rps, so have you and i respect you for doing so.

Oo and now it will be funny to listen to your flame Mat, tho i dont really care about it cause i will be playing my champion then reading these forums.

Maybe reroll, untill they do someting to the class that will make it worth playing again if you think the class is so crap.

 

[MadsKaizer]

Mythic have said nothing about us at all, but I am hoping they will use the scout love patch to boost strels as well by giving us spec shield and the shield changes.

Minstrels are seriously outdated and underpowered and I hope it's not to long before we get some love.

Changes I would like to see are

Small DPS/WS Increase
Shield Spec
Stealth reveiw
Not making us so dependednt on timers.

But I am sure what we will get is an end regen song (woo!) and maybe some more defence like resistence chants ;/

like the useless skald love

 

[Azathrim]

Is this a joke? Or are you the joke? Are you illitaret?

No, Im not. If you meant to ask if Im illiterate the answer remains no.
What about yourself?

Now for the rest of the garbage you managed to spew out:

If you can't keep the discussion on a civilheaded level don't bother.

Start arguing for your ideas and thoughts. The only thing you have managed so far is call everyone that disagrees with you idiots and rub your own e-peen.

All things that weakens your argument (or lack of the same).


Let us try once more for you though:

My argument is:

In 8v8/visible fights Minstrels are lacking (like all stealthers).

In stealth fights minstrels add utility the other realms cannot bring to the table, thus allowing Albion to field far superior stealth groups. Due to that, Minstrels needs a nerf from the stealth perspective. Remove stealth and you open up for looking at the class from the 8v8/visible fights perspective and thus improvements.
Ofcourse, there is also the option of improving all stealthers to the level of visible classes. That still doesn't solve the issue of Albion being able to bring superior utility and support in the stealth groups.

 

[Ctuchik]

Man your just pure comedy.

1st you talk about valks, wich I never mentioned, then you toss in heavy tanks, wich I again never mentioned. Wanna discuss how rangers fare vs UFOs next? Or maybe rangers VS global heating?

what the hell.... you said

A ranger can kill any class in the game who got poor defence since we can opt for a high defence ourself while maintning a high DPS.

to wich Illtar answered with

A ranger cant touch a high RR sword Valk, sorry

ANY CLASS do include valks. and evade 3 isnt "high defense" thats shit defense fgs.

 

[whinersmincer]

In stealth fights minstrels add utility the other realms cannot bring to the table, thus allowing Albion to field far superior stealth groups. Due to that, Minstrels needs a nerf from the stealth perspective. Remove stealth and you open up for looking at the class from the 8v8/visible fights perspective and thus improvements.
Ofcourse, there is also the option of improving all stealthers to the level of visible classes. That still doesn't solve the issue of Albion being able to bring superior utility and support in the stealth groups.[/QUOTE]

think u are missing the point here we are talking about 1vs1 fights people that stealth and group are pussys at high rr if the are low rr the can group what the like its fine with me...but 1vs1 against sb/ns mincers will die almost everytime. or lets say the win every 15 mins when ip/battler/winged or shades

 

[Sneakers|Matri]

Stuff

My point is Euinar, that you as a minstrel was opted for groups, item and spec wise wich means I know you got the larger part of your rps from 8 mans in Toxii group, "easymode" patches era. Wich in turn means your knowlage about solo 1v1, minstrel stealth game is limited, as my 8v8 with minstrel is small in comparsion to you, hence I'm not comenting on that.

 

[Sneakers|Matri]

No, Im not. If you meant to ask if Im illiterate the answer remains no.
What about yourself?

Now for the rest of the garbage you managed to spew out:

If you can't keep the discussion on a civilheaded level don't bother.

Start arguing for your ideas and thoughts. The only thing you have managed so far is call everyone that disagrees with you idiots and rub your own e-peen.

All things that weakens your argument (or lack of the same).


Let us try once more for you though:

My argument is:

In 8v8/visible fights Minstrels are lacking (like all stealthers).

In stealth fights minstrels add utility the other realms cannot bring to the table, thus allowing Albion to field far superior stealth groups. Due to that, Minstrels needs a nerf from the stealth perspective. Remove stealth and you open up for looking at the class from the 8v8/visible fights perspective and thus improvements.
Ofcourse, there is also the option of improving all stealthers to the level of visible classes. That still doesn't solve the issue of Albion being able to bring superior utility and support in the stealth groups.

1) In one post you state "Minstrels needs a nerf" and in a following post you state "I haven't played a mincer, no."

I mean you come here with rather clueless remarks of how minstrels are to play yet your only experince is playing against them.

2) My argument against you was that you had no expiernce playing a minstrel and thus you had no clue of what you where talking about. Many of your remarks was so baised and basically just hilerious.

3) I called you illetarate since you simply couldn't comprehend/read that I myself got a ranger, ns and a minstrel. I got experince from playing one and playing against one, wich you do not have. Yet you go on argumenting that my arguments is nonesense because I havn't played a minstrel either. Glasses on before you post mate.


4) My arguments have been to give minstrels a higher defence and higher melee dps and this by giving minstrels shield spec and a higher spec point pool so they can raise shield to 42 and melee to 39 while having a choice to gimp either stealth or ins or maintaning both at a low level. Your argument is something in the lines of:
-"And if you have just "some" toys up, the NS/SB is dead." -"on top of that, how the Minstrel class further imbalances the already stronger Albion stealthers "
-"Minstrels needs a nerf"

--------------------------
* This is far from true, it is essential to have alot of stuff up to even compete. And what does a minstrel offer in the modern stealthwars, tbh?

-> Low dmging DDs, none stackable abla, 4 s stunn, crap melee.
All you got to do is kill the DPS in the duo, purge3 the minstrels mezz /stunn and keep him interrupted with PS+lifebane/charge dot/NS instant dot spell/hit him once in a while/FZ him. Man you got zero clue.

And when it comes to 8v8 where minstrels are supposed to be a vital class for a visual group they are lacking big time, or wasn't albion meant to run at spd 5 aswell?

When Battler+Malice gets nerfed, wich they have been on US, minstrels timered defence is lowered alot. Shield could compensate for this and make them less timer dependent with an improved passive defence. They need higher melee dmg output since the DDs was inderectly nerfed with DR and have always doon 0 dmg in 8v8.


I'm not saying my solution is the best or even very good ones, but I'm picking on your arguments for very obvious reasons, that they are baised, no clue rambling/drunk posting.