Mincer changes?

[whinersmincer]

Few mistakes here.

- Skalds do not typically run body resists chant because it wipes cl resists and also the cl resists of everyone in the area (if they use ctr)

- I fight plenty of rr8+ skalds (solo speced). They are a tough fight for sure but are beatable as at the latest patch on US.

- LW's have actually got better. Last patch the accuracy recieved a 5% boost. or use sun sword. No its not 'insta pwnage' as you suggest I said but I never said that did I. I certainly cant understand how people cant beat rangers however as they certainly are beatable as at now.

- Sideslash aint flash for sure, but it is handy for preventing kiting and more importantly has less end use than ammy. Dont go out of the way to land it, but if the opportunity presents itself (after mezz or during stun) I do use it.

- Certainly some improvements are needed. But its not quite the crying game some people make out. i.e. people claiming we cant beat other assasins? give me a break. They must just be shit players. 100% solo I tend to manage about 6k irs that seems to suggest infact we can kill some classes.

im not QQ about assasince its more does dam shield user hero/warrior after the get rr5+ and some wardens ( not all of them )

 

[Neffneff]

Stuff

im inclined to agree with you, if im playing my assasin 99.9% minstrels are free RPs, only a few exceptions around, you being one of em.

 

[whinersmincer]

and how can u say rangers rape mincers OMG im rr7 and im fighting rr10 rangers and we always have really good fights and close fights and lower rr rangers i mostly win

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

and how can u say rangers rape mincers OMG im rr7 and im fighting rr10 rangers and we always have really good fights and close fights and lower rr rangers i mostly win

Mate, fight kilsimba, spinesrput, Galid, censi and you will get raped. I killed you when I was rr3 my friend. You won't stand a chance when I'm rr7 and ml10, wich then is a fair comparsion since you rr7 and ml10.

A decent ranger will kill you, trust me.

If you use malice on a ranger ur in trubble and if you don't ur in trubble aswell ... good magic res + aom3 + the fz+fa2+ip2+ps+36% body will make your eyes bleed.

Though I'm glad your still having fun, I had my best times playing minstrel, kinda envy your enthusiasm (sp? )

 

[whinersmincer]

Mate, fight kilsimba, spinesrput, Galid, censi and you will get raped. I killed you when I was rr3 my friend. You won't stand a chance when I'm rr7 and ml10, wich then is a fair comparsion since you rr7 and ml10.

A decent ranger will kill you, trust me.

If you use malice on a ranger ur in trubble and if you don't ur in trubble aswell ... good magic res + aom3 + the fz+fa2+ip2+ps+36% body will make your eyes bleed.

Though I'm glad your still having fun, I had my best times playing minstrel, kinda envy your enthusiasm (sp? )

dude im fighting killsimba all the time but never mind that feel free to jump me and u will see
and ofcurse im not using malice that would be stupid

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

im inclined to agree with you, if im playing my assasin 99.9% minstrels are free RPs, only a few exceptions around, you being one of em.

I'm quite sure I would loose big time nowadays on minstrel xD

fing 36 body aom2 shades with godlike evaderates and gellow+red stacking abs debuffs is dredding on the recieving end

/edit add a PA and battler charge and you could kill be in perhaps stunn duration with a lucky malice proc on 1st hit~~

 

[whinersmincer]

Contrary to your own belief, you are not the only one that have an oppinion of the class. Whetever you have whinged for shield spec or duel wield in the past is really irrelevant to my comment. My comment was directed at the mass of minstrel players on this and other forums that have cried for Duel Wield.[/QUOTE]

i have never ever heart about a mincer wonting duel wield. but lots of mincers wonting shield. so get a clue please

 

[Gamah]

Killsimba is an easy kill :S I feel I should reactivate the minstrel of doom and show the kids how it's done!1

 

[whinersmincer]

Killsimba is an easy kill :S I feel I should reactivate the minstrel of doom and show the kids how it's done!1

no please no i wont to be the mincer of doom

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

Killsimba is an easy kill :S I feel I should reactivate the minstrel of doom and show the kids how it's done!1

Trust me, he is not

My ranger ain't half as hard as his is, will come with RRs though~

But tbh, you will only find yourself to be zerged time after time on minstrel or getting steamed by OP assassins evading 4/5 hits and hitting you back for 400 dmg / round

Then if they should attack you when u got som, wh, ip2, fa2, sos, battler..basically everything up they vanish or evade 25 times in a row xD

Would be fun to have you raping ppl on DC bridge with Bain though , could use some clearing there

 

[Raven]

Isnt cast stun on a different timer to melee stun?

no.

 

[Gamah]

Trust me, he is not

My ranger ain't half as hard as his is, will come with RRs though~

But tbh, you will only find yourself to be zerged time after time on minstrel or getting steamed by OP assassins evading 4/5 hits and hitting you back for 400 dmg / round

Then if they should attack you when u got som, wh, ip2, fa2, sos, battler..basically everything up they vanish or evade 25 times in a row xD

Would be fun to have you raping ppl on DC bridge with Bain though , could use some clearing there

I did honestly think about reactivating bainshee for LOTM But alas need every spare £ as I am moving in with my GF in a month :/

 

[Ballard]

To the previous suggestion that mythic should remove stealth from minstrels, kindly go screw yourself Wouldnt even consider playing one without it.

I had cape charisma, yet my dds did fuck all dmg, i had 23 str cap, 228 QU... +11 stealth +11 slash and +4 ins. I honestly think that your minstrel doesn't even come close to that.

I guess I'm trying to make you understand with these nummbers that I tryed to take my mincer as far as it was possible, and yet I found it to be so worthless I went back to hib playing my nightshade and ranger. And yes rangers do rape minstrels, so do assassins ask any of the active minstrels that are around these days. Skalds do rape minstrels, I might have fougt Zoias skald 200 times and lost 75%-80% of those fights, it was uphill just from start, sure we fought for 5-6-7 mins at times but I would never win since you simple can NOT counter this;
p

First let me start by saying I am not disagreeing that improvement is needed, solely that they are not 'useless'.

I agree skalds do have the advantage currently but my point was that they are beatable. I have never played the standard opening as a minstrel. I always thought DR was a boost for minstrels. I start with mezz. Then cast str debuff followed by str con debuf (aprox 100 str debuffed) then finally engage with a backslash & DD followed by stun then start side slashing (to prevent sos escapes). I was active in the last 3 weeks ago and fighting non rog rr9+ skalds so I can categorically say Yes they are beatable. Are they easy? ofc not. Do you need to use a charge to win? yes. I also spend alot of time fighting plenty of rr11+ rangers and yes ofc they are tough as nails when you are only rr6 but I have beaten them before and always give them at least something of a fight. Lower RR rangers ie 6-9 are certainly beatable on more regular basis.

The fact of that matter, and this is not open to arguement is 'I am playing one at the moment and am doing at a minimum average so they clearly are not useless'.

I started my mincer well after the release of DR and have played almost 100% solo from rr1 for over 1 mil rps, so I am not just making shit up. It was fucking hard rr1-4 but slowly has got a bit easier as I leanrt what works best post DR release.

But yes they do need some adjustment, as If you play to the best of your ability with a close to perfect template you should do better than average, Rather than just average.


p.s. Not to talk stats as I dont think they are any sign of a good player but I actually have 380 str & 260 qui on highlander (yes qui is effective over 250 despite what some uneducated people with tell you), 400 hits, 50af, 90 con , +11slash, +26strcap , 2550 hits all up, Im using lotm 150 delve dot slasher or POC slasher at the moment. So im not exactly walking around in rogs..


EDIT: And its easy to mention the classes that are tough for minstrels but you also have to remember that at the moment we have it all over some classes i.e hunters, yes thats right they are easy meat to minstrels even with all their love. None of the other stealth classes can claim that hunters are easy as hunters are currently do very well.

 

[Gamah]

Sorry but 1 million rpts post rpts patch is nothing. When you have made about 6 million solo old school come back and give us a tinkle, I'd love to see your template by the way because I could never come up with anything close to 250 (260) quick on a highlander + all those bonuses.

A minstrel template is not all about stats, its about timers and abilities, so bragging stats is close to worthless to me, I think I was one of the first minstrels to start using Atlantis Tablet for added DD damage and funny enough lots followed suit.

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

Good points.

From readig your text it seems your playing on US servers. With cl10 ecetera.

I can see the uses of dd+dd mezz lands, then debuff people since you can buy 5 more abils then we at EU can, seems handy.

I also have the impression your fighting generally easier enemies, all of us who played on US knows that over the board they are less skilled and competative then euros, both in solo and 8v8 scen, though ofc their top players are equally skilled as euro top players; thus making your point valid.

My argument about the skalds and rangers is based on the top players not the medicore shit players, I myself on my close to rr8 minstrel have soloed Warhead ( rr11 skald ) and one other newb rr10 dwarf skald from excal wich name I forgot. Yet when it comes to the good and godly skalds that know their shit, like Zoia, I got raped by him when he was rr8ish. Also lost to skalds as low as rr5. And by lost I mean not one time but, loosing the mayority or all fights over many encounters/weeks of playtime.

I agree with you when you say minstrels are in need of help, they are not "useless" but they are neither properly balanced, and are dragging behind other characters in power/effectiveness.

As I see it, minstrels need a better defence, especially with the changes on US servers, where battler and malice, wich was working as 30-40% of the minstrels actual defence, got nerfed.

Getting to spec in shield to 42 for slam ( helps us get groups ), maybe get access to battlemaster MLs ( BG and grapple for group purposes ); and giving us additional spec points at the same time, so that we can raise our dmg output seems to me as juste.

Ah well, time will tell I guess.

 

[Ballard]

Sorry but 1 million rpts post rpts patch is nothing. When you have made about 6 million solo old school come back and give us a tinkle, I'd love to see your template by the way because I could never come up with anything close to 250 (260) quick on a highlander + all those bonuses.

A minstrel template is not all about stats, its about timers and abilities, so bragging stats is close to worthless to me, I think I was one of the first minstrels to start using Atlantis Tablet for added DD damage and funny enough lots followed suit.

- I never said any of your points were invalid. In fact most are quite good. All I have ever said is that a minstrel can beat skalds and rangers now and it is not a useless class rather it is decidely average. Are you arguing this is not the case? or can you not appreciate the point I am making.

- I never suggested that I was a great minstrel or that I was uber experienced. All i said was that I have had some success post DR and posted how I had earned rps as an example of the fact not to suggest that I was a pwning mincer. Once again I dont understand the rational of your argument or even why you are arguing this. I am not suggesting that minstrel is not in need of improvements or that shield spec wouldnt be good. Only that they are not useless atm.

- I dont understand the point of your post? Is it to suggest that I am a bad player and dont know the class or are you saying that minstrel is useless? If its the later then you must be disputing the fact that minstrel cannot kill any classes even though you have just said you can still beat rangers comfortably.

p.s. aug qui III is enough with 80 qui in template to get 260 qui. An early version of my template is in the template section on the current page but it has changed abit since then to factor a little more con in.

 

[Ballard]

As I see it, minstrels need a better defence, especially with the changes on US servers, where battler and malice, wich was working as 30-40% of the minstrels actual defence, got nerfed.

Getting to spec in shield to 42 for slam ( helps us get groups ), maybe get access to battlemaster MLs ( BG and grapple for group purposes ); and giving us additional spec points at the same time, so that we can raise our dmg output seems to me as juste.

Ah well, time will tell I guess.

malice is a waste of time now but battler is still worthwhile. Certainly still worth keeping on the back.

Personally I use soj line and would stick with that. Essence resist buff is handy for poison spikes and nerfed zephyr for the mezz / cl debuff combo. I just wish they would un-nerf Phaseshift. It used to be a godsend for jumping all the noob warlocks and letting them unload all their chambers

My point was never to argue with the proposed changes. Only to remove the hyperbole from the discussion. Non minstrels / mythic are hardly going to listen when every post about minstrels starts with 'we are useless' or 'we cant kill anything'.

 

[Gamah]

The way I have always seen it is that we have shit stealth but were tough to beat in melee, this balance was great for assasins as they could (in most cases) choose to avoid Minstrels. However this shit stealth is now a bain of our class, with post love assasins landing opening styles with massive effect and our abilitys too outdated to deal with it.

Hence I said stealth should be revamped, we should get spec shield to give us back what we lost in terms of defence and something should be done about groupabilty. I still feel that Minstrels are a below par class, and no I wasn't saying you're shit or your opinion does not count. I was mearly stating that a lot of us are old school minstrels who have played the class through over 20 patches+ and what we say should be valued and not dismissed.

I have seen Minstrels go from God mode group essentuals to Thane Mode unwanted timer based loners due to a series of passive nerfs over 3-4 years. We are now a sub-par outdated class in need of attntion.

 

[Jeros]

you know its bad when the enemy say you are easy rps :<

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

The way I have always seen it is that we have shit stealth but were tough to beat in melee, this balance was great for assasins as they could (in most cases) choose to avoid Minstrels. However this shit stealth is now a bain of our class, with post love assasins landing opening styles with massive effect and our abilitys too outdated to deal with it.

Hence I said stealth should be revamped, we should get spec shield to give us back what we lost in terms of defence and something should be done about groupabilty. I still feel that Minstrels are a below par class, and no I wasn't saying you're shit or your opinion does not count. I was mearly stating that a lot of us are old school minstrels who have played the class through over 20 patches+ and what we say should be valued and not dismissed.

I have seen Minstrels go from God mode group essentuals to Thane Mode unwanted timer based loners due to a series of passive nerfs over 3-4 years. We are now a sub-par outdated class in need of attntion.

Sums it all up well imo.

This game could be made so much better if the company hadn't changed their focus.
I mean what they are doing with warhammer is inventing the wheel all over. DAoC could be given r0x gfx, have its RvR scenary remade *again*, classes tuned and released as a new game with modern graphics, support for dx10 and lend/copy nice inventions/features from other games; while still keeping their focus of what and when DAoC was at its prime.

What a waste of potential

 

[Zoia]

Minstrels definately need some help, maybe even more so than skalds. That doesn't mean skalds don't need some loving.
I'm wondering why skalds got powerchant, ablative and end reduction chant. Ablative is ok, but i doubt many skalds will spec 50 BS for it, so basically we got a few more half-useless chants that we can't even twist properly.
Maybe we got the power chant because some skalds have been whining about it...
The ablative was something unique to minstrels and they could have kept it for themselves. Perhaps even boosted it to 100 now that most other melee classes are so much better.
Then they could have increased the skald, warden and paladin damage add to 10 dps, instead of giving shamen 10 dps.
A few more group friendly toys for the music classes to make them wanted in a group and i think we would be getting somewhere.
Maybe 1.8 spec points and parry spec to minstrels and bards(edit: and 1.8 to skalds). I'm not sure any of us should get shieldspec or 2x spec points.

 

[Kahvi]

I cba reading all the qq about the mincer here. Ive never had that much problem whit mine tho i lost some and won some.
I dont think a better shield or parry will do that much for em tho maybe a higher damage in dds, + 10-25% maybe. To get mincer more groups id say they have to give em either: end regen, banelord or bg/grapple.

ty from me..

 

[whinersmincer]

I cba reading all the qq about the mincer here. Ive never had that much problem whit mine tho i lost some and won some.
I dont think a better shield or parry will do that much for em tho maybe a higher damage in dds, + 10-25% maybe. To get mincer more groups id say they have to give em either: end regen, banelord or bg/grapple.

ty from me..

have u tried fighting rr5+ ns/zhadowblade ? if the pop on u with PA or backstab and u dont have all ure toys up u are dead

 

[Azathrim]

have u tried fighting rr5+ ns/zhadowblade ? if the pop on u with PA or backstab and u dont have all ure toys up u are dead

And if you have just "some" toys up, the NS/SB is dead.

So... if Mythic improved Minstrels they would just ensure that the NS/SB never stood a chance.

Add on top of that, how the Minstrel class further imbalances the already stronger Albion stealthers when grouped and you have the situation in a nutshell.

Remove minstrel stealth and you can start talk about improvements.

Until then, Minstrels needs a nerf.

 

[mikke]

have u tried fighting rr5+ ns/zhadowblade ? if the pop on u with PA or backstab and u dont have all ure toys up u are dead

He is rr11, he should be able to kill something, despite the fact that hes a mincer

 

[mikke]

And if you have just "some" toys up, the NS/SB is dead.

So... if Mythic improved Minstrels they would just ensure that the NS/SB never stood a chance.

Add on top of that, how the Minstrel class further imbalances the already stronger Albion stealthers when grouped and you have the situation in a nutshell.

Remove minstrel stealth and you can start talk about improvements.

Until then, Minstrels needs a nerf.

What are you talking about? Mincers need to have all their toys up, and have some end pots or power pots to win vs an assasin.

And saying that mincers are OP when they are grouped whith other stealthers is like saying that clerics are OP when grouped with other visible players. Which is a silly thing to say imo. When a mincer group a stealther its not the mincer that becomes OP, its the other stealther that becomes better the way i see it. Mincers can hardly do jack sh*t them selves..

Have you played a mincer? Or are you just whining because you got owned by an inf\mincer duo?

 

[Azathrim]

I haven't played a mincer, no.

Whetever it's the mincer or the duo partner that becomes OP is irrelevant really. The matter of fact is, that Albion can field the most powerful stealther groups purely due to the mincer.

As long as that's an issue, Mincers needs a nerf.

Have you ever played against an infil/mincer duo or are you just spewing crap?

 

[Tesla Monkor]

I don't expect Minstrels to get anything at all - regardless of what minstrels think. Mythic doesn't want to touch the class with a 10' pole

Root of this problem with the Minstrels is twofold; they stand in two worlds, providing speed for visibles while also being solidly in the stealther world. Making them more attractive for a visible group (which means they have to be more powerful than any of the casters that ordinarily provide speed, ie. sorcerer) makes them so powerful in the stealthwar that they would basically wreck RVR.

If Mythic does boost the minstrels, I don't think it will be in the areas where it would benefit the stealthers. The love they need is for the visible groups after all.

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

Haha, at the clueless posts tbh.

And Euinar how many of those rps is not PLed in a FL grp/alliance group tbh? Be honest about it.

 

[Azathrim]

Haha, at the clueless posts tbh.

Strange you laugh at the clueless posts.

Your clueless post seemed rather boring after all.