MagnusK - why does the customer need to do this?

klasa

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Mar 3, 2005
Messages
250
Stop with the legend building, you sound almost as bad as MJ.

No one gives a shit if you can play the game with no connectivity issues, many can't and this will be a problem to the game once the free month is up. If you think that this pisses me off, then you're wrong, it's more your "stop playing the game"-attitude.

1. Pre launch the OB in Europe has been labled by press "the world's most closed open beta ever". Some players have paid for open beta access!
2. GOA's CEO had to apologize, in the middle of a night, to his customers.
3. Mythic's CEO had to apologize, saying the GOA dropped the ball.
4. On retail launch day, the authetification system was running 3 hours later than promised and errors with authetification still prevail until today, keeping players out!
5. We have been promised equal service, but we don't have it, for a simple comparison visit GOA's and Mythic's pages and draw your own conclusions. I will not go into detail what's all wrong with GOA's website, it has been discussed to death!
6. Lag makes PvP almost pointless, this is a core feature of the game! Abilities/spells aren't going off, people are frustrated and log off, some mention that they will not resubscribe at this state after the free month.
7. Game is suffering from glitches that DAoC had (geometry, pathing, ghosting) and some of the new features like collision detection aren't working like they should. The promised good CC is broken, roots rarely get broken upon damage, you can get chain knocked off.
8. There is no class balance in this game yet.

Add random CTDs and memory leaks to it, the degrading FPS after running the game for longer and we have a game that has a similar level of quality as Tabula Rasa and Age of Conan had.

The only difference for now I see between Warhammer and the two other mentioned games is that MJ and EA/Mythic seemsto be commited to put more money into Warhammer and work on the issues. NCsoft and Funcom had to pull the emergency trip wire and cut the further developement big. Warhammer has been in development for 3 years and builds on a industry standard game engine (Gamebryo), I think the Tabula Rasa and Age of Conan teams developed their own engines, making the overall development more complex and risky, put this into relation and you'll maybe see clearer where Warhammer is.

I can be a critic of how some things run and still be a fan of the game and enjoy it, but as long as I don't see how GOA addresses the issues they're responsible for and as long as I don't see a little more pre-planning (e.g. not putting the web services up and launching the game at the same time) you'll see me and others bringing such stuff up.

We will simply not allow to get bullshited as we did get with DAOC!

We raised our concerns when GOA got the contract, we have been promised equal service, we pay for it, we demand it!

Next test will be the billing system, prolly going just online before the first account runs out.
Have you ever enjoyed a game? Haven't seen a positive post from you ever! Perhaps you should just quit online gaming m8
 

Sintoxis

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
14
Anyone actually have this issue on US servers? Bet your bollocks they don't.
Warhammer Forums - View Single Post - Authentication Failed - Application Will Now Terminate

The issue for the people getting the error [5] is a timeout issue. Retrieving the server list when there were just a few servers worked because you were getting less data back from our servers. Now, the list is much longer and we are returning much more information about each server. We have put in fixes to optimize this code and increase the timeout and it has worked for many people; however, it seems there is still a group of people that are having trouble. For the people who are still having issues, you should call your ISP to find out if there is a throttle or packet shaper that would prevent you from getting a certain amount of data at once.

Ci-Ci
There's a 75 page thread on warhammer alliance about it, so guess it's affecting players all over, not just in the EU.
 

dee777

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
575
Have you ever enjoyed a game? Haven't seen a positive post from you ever! Perhaps you should just quit online gaming m8
Ah...I can vouch for Mani having fun in online games from time to time. ;)

But did you bother reading thru the whole post? He even said it himself:

I can be a critic of how some things run and still be a fan of the game and enjoy it, but as long as I don't see how GOA addresses the issues they're responsible for and as long as I don't see a little more pre-planning (e.g. not putting the web services up and launching the game at the same time) you'll see me and others bringing such stuff up.
Not an unreasonable stance IMO.
 

klasa

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Mar 3, 2005
Messages
250
I see your point it's just that some of the critsiscm has in my opinion been dated. The issues with GOA's problem with the beta was known before launch and you could argue that if that's a known fact why do you sub for the game.

I agree there are issues with lag but I have fun playing WAR and therofre I don't bitch about it. Bithcing just makes life more sour than it was before.
 

Llendil

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Jun 6, 2004
Messages
53
Poag, the magic number of 5000 is a number picked out of the air, in the same way you've focussed on just this one thread about it and assumed it just affects me, please do us all a favour and do some research first before posting as you are simply clouding the problem. There are others affected by it and others who don't even know they are affected by it simply because they've been lucky at the time they have logged in.

As mentioned by others above, you'll find this problem doesn't just affect GOA, it affects the Mythic / US platform aswell. It's not an ISP problem, its an Authentication / Server Lookup issue that Mythic / GOA need to fix. If it was an ISP problem, THEN IT WOULD AFFECT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE :D I'm with BT!!

The majority of the time, I'm unaffected by it, but on occasion the failure occurs, infrequently, but it occurs. When I read the post on the US forum a while back, it had never occured to me and I simply thought 'bad luck!', however it's happened to me now and it matters. Others out there will probably read this post and think the same thing until it starts happening to them.
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
Your solution: Err wrong again... port 80 is already reserved by the OS for http traffic, which is why they use the 8000 range. Now go to wikipedia and read a little about these things before making silly claims.
Thanks for the clear up on the auth stuff (and torrents). As I said, layman's knowledge based on what I've been reading... I should really read up on that stuff a bit more :)

solution 1 was meant to be the "not actually feasible" solution ;)
(I should say I was suggesting connecting to port 80 on the GOA servers, not opening port 80 for your data stream which you're right - the OS wouldn't do. Though it sounds like that wouldn't actually make a difference anyway as the shaping isn't based on ports used.)

That means they're shaping on some other aspect of the network connection - wonder what makes it different to yer average FPS... or do they just have rules in place to allow that through?
Edit - looks like it's the size of the server list data...

If it was just GOAs network - everyone would have the problem. If it was just the traffic shaping alone then you'd have this problem with every game you play....

Again, I don't know enough about it to have a properly informed opinion but nothing anyone has posted here has convinced me that there's a magic fix that GOA can implement to sort this...
Edit: sounds like Mythic could do something to make that server list less of an easy target for packet shaping ISPs? make it a number of requests rather than a single request...
 

Gahn

Resident Freddy
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
5,056
Since they told us from ages that anyway half the Eu traffic passes from OT, shouldn't be that hard to spread and force traffic shaping policies to get the things working tbh.
 

Poag

m00?
Joined
Mar 11, 2004
Messages
2,411
Poag, the magic number of 5000 is a number picked out of the air, in the same way you've focussed on just this one thread about it and assumed it just affects me, please do us all a favour and do some research first before posting as you are simply clouding the problem. There are others affected by it and others who don't even know they are affected by it simply because they've been lucky at the time they have logged in.

As mentioned by others above, you'll find this problem doesn't just affect GOA, it affects the Mythic / US platform aswell. It's not an ISP problem, its an Authentication / Server Lookup issue that Mythic / GOA need to fix. If it was an ISP problem, THEN IT WOULD AFFECT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE :D I'm with BT!!

The majority of the time, I'm unaffected by it, but on occasion the failure occurs, infrequently, but it occurs. When I read the post on the US forum a while back, it had never occured to me and I simply thought 'bad luck!', however it's happened to me now and it matters. Others out there will probably read this post and think the same thing until it starts happening to them.

OH look

Warhammer Forums - View Single Post - Authentication Failed - Application Will Now Terminate

The americans give the same solution, I wonder if it could actually be a throttling issue afterall.

My wouldn't that be...something.
 

Llendil

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Jun 6, 2004
Messages
53
The magic fix is to limit the server lookup to just the default server you play on, if you want to create a new character on another server, then do a lookup - you are less likely to do this every day so it's less of an issue when authentication fails (and it may no longer do so if there aren't thousands of lookups anymore!).

Blizzard altered their authentication to do this, Codemasters did it by default.
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
Since they told us from ages that anyway half the Eu traffic passes from OT, shouldn't be that hard to spread and force traffic shaping policies to get the things working tbh.
the shaping is at your ISP... so once it's out of OT's control (otherwise EVERYONE would have this problem)
 

Poag

m00?
Joined
Mar 11, 2004
Messages
2,411
Yup this is the thing.

Peers do not generally traffic shape, as they get paid by the transfer amount usually, so the more transfer the better for them. Its done at an ISP (and sometimes at a local city) level normally, as they have to pay the peers :)
 

Llendil

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Jun 6, 2004
Messages
53
The americans give the same solution, I wonder if it could actually be a throttling issue afterall.
The simplest fix which other MMOs implemented to stop the end customer having to fart around with an ISP who is unlikely to change anything is to not bring back a complete server list in the first place - it's unnecessary unless you want to create a new character.

Besides, why should someone who's bought a game have to contact an ISP to direct them on the art of traffic management for that game? Where's the sense and logic in that. From experience, that's a developer passing the buck and avoiding the small piece of work involved in rewriting precious code that they cherish and not having the ability to put themselves in the customers shoes.

The problem with MMORPG houses these days is that the majority still have no concept of customer management and how they should deal with problems - they often throw technical solutions back at end users which in essence, they shouldn't have to deal with at all.
 

Gahn

Resident Freddy
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
5,056
the shaping is at your ISP... so once it's out of OT's control (otherwise EVERYONE would have this problem)
I just stated the fact that, since OT owns half the traffic throught Europe, is clearly easier that THEY do involve Major EU Isps in the configuration of it.
 

MephTheLaw

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
74
OOkay here comes some common knowledge... The auth sequence does NOT use UDP. UDP is only used for updates regarding movement etc (at least if it is the same case as they did with daoc, which i have reasons to believe it is, helooo reverse engineering... :)). You simply cannot use udp for the auth sequence nor the login stuff since its encrypted. With UDP there is no check for packet consistency, meaning its not guarenteed that the packets will not be lost underway. Works for movement and other encrypted data that doesnt rely on consistency to actually be decrypted. (hence why daoc used a fixed key for encryption/decryption which was transmitted to the client on startup). If you look at something like blowfish which is used with wow, it would NOT be possible to use UDP since the encryptionkey is ever changing, and it would require some silly bruteforcing to pick up on the sequence in case it was lost. The auth sequence is without a doubt encrypted much more heavily than the actual ping ponging when ingame (security reasons). Only logcal conclusion is that TCP is being used for auth. Torrents are NOT UDP either, again chance of packets to drop without anyone knowing it...-_-...

Your solution: Err wrong again... port 80 is already reserved by the OS for http traffic, which is why they use the 8000 range. Now go to wikipedia and read a little about these things before making silly claims.


Now, the next topic. What can goa actually do?.
First of, i dont know what agreement goa has with mythic, but it seems to be diffrent from what they had with daoc. With daoc mythic basically outsourced the code to goa and allowed them to do whatever they wanted, which is why we had to wait ages for expansions since they had to be translated into god knows what language. With war it seems that mythic is running the and goa is doing nothing but running the servers and the backend (this is NOT the auth server nor any of the gameservers, since the only logical conclusion is that they come out of the box from mythic). Goa has their own backend with how to tie stuff to the database, own website etc. They just make it compatible with the box they got from mythic, which is why the accountmanagement differs from what they have in the states. This leads to the conclusion that since they dont seem to have the problem on the US servers, something is wrong with either wrong with the backend goa made (which in a way seems kinda strange since the auth sequence is between authserver and client, which goa doesnt seem to be involved in). The auth failed part is, considering i dont know where it fucks up whether it is the connection to the authserver, or the authserver checking accounts. In the first scenario the error is most likely caused by GOA's isp which is what these days...still wannado, or do they have their own backbone.


So, only logical conclusion is: In case this is a euro problem, its either caused by A: goa's crap hardware tends to drop users or deny them access all together, or B somehow their backend for accountmanagement is fooked up... (which again is kinda strange since it only affects some users and not all...again back to the goa having connectivity issues...)




the OS reserves the ports below...both tcp and udp...




Ya dont use port 80 for 3rd part programs damnit :/ its reserved for http....
Yea you are right, I’m slightly embarrassed but I did post it at midnight :(, but anyhow if I remember right that port was used by the patcher via http connection and it was something else like that. I can’t really remember as it was over a year ago, I ‘am just going by what I recall :p

The real issue here is, in prime time, goas network is lagging heavy and there auth servers are not handling it and you're getting timed out. Either they can increase the time out, but if they do this it opens up for a DDoS attack or they can fix / optimise the hardware for a better load.
But to me, it doesn’t look any different to daoc, in way of goa’s server service.

Overall I’m very disappointed with this games server side performance, it seems like they neglected it and just rushed it.


edit - Remember, it was UDP - 33625 :p
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
The real issue here is, in prime time, goas network is lagging heavy and there auth servers are not handling it and you're getting timed out.
If that was the problem everyone would experience it sporadically...
 

mgX

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
36
They do have this problem on the US servers...
i stand corrected on that. Narrows it down to some issue with the authserver then it would seem. This is ofcourse just speculation, since i dont really have access to any errorlogs nor do i know how the warhammer servers work. I just speak from experience in the field of serverprogramming =)

Again, nothing goa can do since they arent responsible for the sourcecode itself :)

The problem with lag etc is easily traced to the last hops on a traceroute, which is either goa's isp or their own backbone... Probably overloaded or malfunctioning dslams...


regarding the engine... its gamebryo, it comes with networking too, which is why the packets are strangely familiar with daoc :p
 

MephTheLaw

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
74
If that was the problem everyone would experience it sporadically...
Yes but it depends on location and ISP, not everyone gets server lag, and not everyone gets auth failed. As you are aware of the huge different of location / isp between players, there is also a huge difference in which routers etc they hit via different routes.

You can make the logical assumption that, if it works fine in the day, lags hard at night and then that’s when you start getting timed out its pretty obvious. Considering it’s not down to ISP, traffics shaping with BT starts at like 4pm and ends at midnight.

I use to (semi fixed atm) get timed out at 7pmish to 10 and while I was lagging I could fire up torrents etc and rape my net at that time.
 

Soazak

Part of the furniture
Joined
Mar 12, 2004
Messages
1,109
Considering it’s not down to ISP, traffics shaping with BT starts at like 4pm and ends at midnight.

I use to (semi fixed atm) get timed out at 7pmish to 10 and while I was lagging I could fire up torrents etc and rape my net at that time.
I'm with BT and I find they only mess around with my connection if I've raped the bandwidth that month with torrents etc

I'm on the unlimited bandwidth option, but everyone knows its not really unlimited, they start to throttle if you use too much, but nowadays I don't use a great deal and I have no problems, when I played daoc I used to dl a lot of music and (ahem) movies, once i'd done anywhere between 5-20gb my connection to daoc in particular (US servers nothing else seemed to be effected) would be awful.

Once I stopped my heavy downloading, had a few words with BT about throttling my bandwidth and it's never happened again.
 

`mongoose

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
957
I'm sorry but I have enough qualifications, to be qualified to say this is utter ballocks.

Your ISP doesn't add new ports for new games and such, especially when the games are fully connectable during the day. GoAs networks are lagging hard in prime time and depending on your location, ISP mix and random luck you get timed out by there auth servers. This is a server side fix, not an ISP fix; blaming it on ISPs is just the easy way out, is the scenario lag BTs fault as well? And due to huge number of different players on different ISPs experiencing this problem you can rule it out also.
Oh and your home router, doesn’t suddenly change its firewall rules around 7 ish.
Right I rarely do this but seeing as you've decided to rubbish my comments and then use the whole "I have teh qualifications" line. I'm calling it.

You're talking shit mate. You might live in a country where isp's get to treat their customers like morons and they get no comeback, if that's the case and your experience then you have my sympathy. It doesn't make you qualified in any way whatsoever.

PlusNet | Home & Business Broadband Internet Access & Phone Services UK - register for the forums and click the games forum. That's ONE isp. You'll even find a post from me there (Isquish). FFS Plus aren't even reknowned as a good isp for gamers. I went with trem's recommendation when i got pissed off with nthell and have been paying for it ever since!

It is NOT a server side fix. You and llendl seem to be under this assumption that once traffic leaves your router it's on a straight pipe - point to point direct to goa and everything that goes right must be their fault.

IF, as you say, this is all goa's fault and traffic shaping is not at fault (or not one of the faults) why, am I now unaffected by this issue when I was 10 days ago? I'll give you a hint too, Tuesday last week was the magic day for me. Tuesday was also the day when Plus net finished testing their ellacoya changes and their Q&A authorised the change request to make those changes to their system.

I never said it was firewall/router config based - I think you'll find someone else said that you decided to lump that one on me too in your fit of "I'm qualified" emo rage

Seriously mate - I can understand you're annoyed and want to play and I feel for you. I was pissed when this affected me. I'm advising you to get your isp on the phone and just demand a manager. Keep demanding until you get put through to someone who will talk to their network techies. It "might" not be traffic shaping in your case - if it isn't it WILL be something your ISP have to escalate.

All I'm saying in this is if you want to play the game, I'd follow GOA's advice and talk to your isps. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's Still an issue with peering in open transit somewhere - god knows they made my daoc life a pain at times. I don't jump on the "Goa/Mythic are shit" bandwagon however. They're not - I've played games supported my much worse mmo companies - SW;G being one and *shudder*neocron*shudder* being another.

M
 

mgX

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
36
the server auth fail thing seems to be a serverside problem...the fact that shit goes down the drain in primetime is traceable back to goa :)
 

Jupitus

Old and short, no wonder I'm grumpy!
Staff member
Moderator
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 14, 2003
Messages
2,231
the server auth fail thing seems to be a serverside problem...the fact that shit goes down the drain in primetime is traceable back to goa :)

Explain.....
 

`mongoose

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
957
the server auth fail thing seems to be a serverside problem...the fact that shit goes down the drain in primetime is traceable back to goa :)
I had authentication failed (application will now exit) and a time out on even logging in to the patcher, before I even started to connect to the sodding authentication program for 4 days after release between the hours of 19:00 and 23:00 uk time. If I managed to get logged in at 18:00 when I got home and stay logged in I would be able to play without any issues whatsoever

Both of those issues disappeared once my isp made the changes to ellacoya as linked here.

Yeah - I'd say that means it's goa's fault ;)

M
 

Poag

m00?
Joined
Mar 11, 2004
Messages
2,411
the server auth fail thing seems to be a serverside problem...the fact that shit goes down the drain in primetime is traceable back to goa :)
.....


Did they ever finish that device that let you electrocute people over the internet?

No?

Shame
 

Manisch Depressiv

Resident Freddy
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
7,725
2- Keep repeating that its GOAs fault untill you pass out.

I'm hoping for 2 as it may improve the genepool.
Did anyone spot the hidden real life death threat/wish?

Isn't that like instant ban on FH?

*giggle*
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top Bottom