London Underground shut down

[old.user4556]

Yeah, just read that. Tragic.

I did think to myself: by the time they caught him and were sitting on him, if he was any threat or packing a bomb, that it would have been too late? What was the point in shooting him five times?

However, on the other hand; at this very sensitive, paranoid and wrongly prejudice time, if you're not white* and you run from armed police, you're asking for trouble. Everyone needs to cooperate.

*Disclaimer: not a racist remark.

 

[Turamber]

If somebody waves a gun in your direction then, I would think, it's best to stand still and put your hands in the air. Running in the opposite direction is more than likely going to get you killed. Running into a tube station not even 24 hours after somebody tried to blow it up is asking to get you killed.

 

[Ukle]

Yeah, just read that. Tragic.

I did think to myself: by the time they caught him and were sitting on him, if he was any threat or packing a bomb, that it would have been too late? What was the point in shooting him five times?

However, on the other hand; at this very sensitive, paranoid and wrongly prejudice time, if you're not white* and you run from armed police, you're asking for trouble. Everyone needs to cooperate.

*Disclaimer: not a racist remark.

Its not racist at all as its part of what the game plan of the terrorists want... For the none muslim's to distrust the Muslims and in the hatred that is fueled more terrorists come from the Muslim community.

 

[Trem]

Yeah, just read that. Tragic.

I did think to myself: by the time they caught him and were sitting on him, if he was any threat or packing a bomb, that it would have been too late? What was the point in shooting him five times?

It isn't tragic, the stupid twat should of not ran and stopped when told to. If It was me I would of stopped.

They shot him 5 times because they use low velocity bullets so that passengers/public have less chance of getting hit.

I don't feel sorry for the shot guy whatsoever hes a stupid cock who shouldn't of ran.

 

[old.user4556]

Tragic in the sense that the met police made a mistake.

Like you say, and I agree, in this time and considering the locus; running away from the police is a big mistake.

 

[Trem]

I was in no way having a go at you luv.

As long as thats clear. I'm just on the defensive waiting for the PC brigade to kick in(which you aren't one of)


*bums G*

 

[nath]

Good lord trem, where is this PC brigade that you keep on talking about? You seem to use it to preempt anyone disagreeing with something you've said. They don't exist man, they're in your head!

 

[Ukle]

The guy who was shot was Brazilian... just hope to god he was a perminant resident of London and not a Tourist or on a few months stay.

Also now looks likely the people who carried out the shoting were the SRR (Special Reconissance Regiment) a unit that was offically announced only 3 months ago, and works in tandem with MI5 / MI6 to do sort of there dirty work.

 

[rynnor]

the SRR (Special Reconissance Regiment) a unit that was offically announced only 3 months ago, and works in tandem with MI5 / MI6 to do sort of there dirty work.

Looks like they'll get their first criminal charges then - manslaughter - its not yet a police state where failure to stop = death.

 

[Furr]

Its tragic, But that bloke if the information given about him is right jumping a barrier and not stopping when challenged was being the most complete idiot, and in these times being that stupid will have consequences.

All i can imagine is that if he was Brazilian he may not have understood what they were saying and thought he was being chased for not paying for a ticket, As i said tragic, but I still think the police acted in the correct fashion. What if he had been a bomber!

 

[Sissyfoo]

Well this is a grand start to the whole business of tracking down the bombers. I can see a lot of muslims are going to be sleeping soundly tonight. Well, by 'muslims' I mean anyone who looks vaguely like they might belong to that ethnic group.

 

[Louster]

Well this is a grand start to the whole business of tracking down the bombers. I can see a lot of muslims are going to be sleeping soundly tonight. Well, by 'muslims' I mean anyone who looks vaguely like they might belong to that ethnic group.

Yeah, seriously.
Also, people probably shouldn't be jumping to conclusions. From what I've read, most of the information so far has come from eye-witnesses? And a lot of the interviews on the BBC have been contradictory.
As someone said on the BBC comments page:

What if this man did not understand English, and all he saw was 3 normally dressed large built men screaming, looking aggressive and running after him in a tube station? Put yourself in his position.

I'm not saying this is necessarily true, I'm just saying that, right now, I don't think anybody knows for sure exactly what happened, and who was in the wrong. I guess it'll be the job of the various inquiries to figure out whether the police actions were appropriate or not.

 

[Gumbo]

This fella was simply the 55th victim of the bombers, and also a victim of his own stupidity.

Yup some innocents will be killed in the future preventing the murders of scores, shit happens, get over it.

I bet anyone else challenged in the future will think twice before vaulting barriers and charging onto a train, Brazilian, Pakistani, Swedish or English.

 

[old.user4556]

I was in no way having a go at you luv.

*bums G*

*reciprocates bum*

I know honey.

I fear the PC brigade.

 

[Trem]

Good lord trem, where is this PC brigade that you keep on talking about? You seem to use it to preempt anyone disagreeing with something you've said. They don't exist man, they're in your head!

Shush you, damn hippy

 

[Louster]

I bet anyone else challenged in the future will think twice before vaulting barriers and charging onto a train, Brazilian, Pakistani, Swedish or English.

Oh, Gumbo.
Honestly, I'd like to see the official, reliable proof that this guy's death was purely down to his own stupidity. I mean it - I've browsed the various news websites and haven't seen anything other than vague and contradictory eye-witness accounts, and if this is all we have to go on then it's still entirely possible that the police totally fucked up. The only official announcement I know of leaves most of the details intentionally vague, unsurprisingly.

I'm not arguing that they did fuck up, of course; I'm arguing that knee-jerk, assumptive, unfounded and hateful reactions get nobody anywhere. (Or at least, anywhere good.)

 

[throdgrain]

Look on the bright side. At least people arnt so likely to get a ride on the tube without a ticket any more.

 

[Gumbo]

/me fluffles Lou.

You're right, we'll never know what actually happened, but put yourself in the police officer/special forces, whatever guys shoes.

They had no choice, as they believed this was a guy about to blow up a carriage load of people.

If London is going to be like Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, heaven forfend, then there are going to be a bunch more innocents killed. There are also going to be a bunch more successsful attacks.

It sucks, and with some luck, it won't happen. However I'm glad there are people looking out for us, even if mistakes happen. What's the alternative?

 

[Sissyfoo]

This fella was simply the 55th victim of the bombers, and also a victim of his own stupidity.

Yup some innocents will be killed in the future preventing the murders of scores, shit happens, get over it.

I bet anyone else challenged in the future will think twice before vaulting barriers and charging onto a train, Brazilian, Pakistani, Swedish or English.

He wasn't a victim of the bombers, he was a victim of the police. Yea, he made a big mistake but there is no way you can possibly say he deserved to die for it.

 

[Gumbo]

I didn't say that.

If 54 people hadn't been killed on the 7th, this fella wouldn't have died on the 21st.

 

[Draylor]

The man shot yesterday was innocent

So why the hell did he run from armed police? Its not as if he didnt get a warning

Sadly when this sort of mistake happens the usual reaction is to try to prosecute the police officers concerned - despite them having followed the rules. If we have armed police mistakes will happen, which means we need politicians with the balls to deal with it.

 

[Sissyfoo]

Nope, it doesn't make him a victim of the bombers though. The police killed him, nobody else. I mean, by your logic, we can attribute all of these deaths to the american government because it is probably safe to assume that if we hadn't stood by the US when they invaded Afghanistan and then Iraq the bombers may not have even targetted the UK in this manner. The police fucked up and someone paid with his life.

 

[Gumbo]

OK take it further, would the invasions have happened without 3.5k people dieing in New York?

We can go on like this but it's boring.

 

[throdgrain]

Yes, lets not do anything. Lets hide under a stone.
In time, we could even be... French!

 

[Turamber]

He wasn't a victim of the bombers, he was a victim of the police.

No, he was a victim of the bombers. They created the environment of distrust and violence, the police acted - as they thought - to protect innocents. Sure it sucks to the innocent person killed by accident; but it sucks a lot more to be one of dozens of people blown up by a suicide bomber.

And before I am attacked for this statement, please keep in mind that I am not a right wing type -- I actually don't agree with ID cards and have been supportive of the exercise of freedom of speech by these extremists.

But, importantly, I live in the real world and realise that a shitty situation created by suicide bombers will lead to innocents dying.

 

[Louster]

They had no choice, as they believed this was a guy about to blow up a carriage load of people.

This is what I'm talking about with assumptions, though. This is assuming that the police made rational and reasonable decisions throughout, and that it was the man's fault, which could well be the opposite of the truth. The police might have made unfounded and unreasonable decisions - perhaps even before the man "ran away". For example, if they thought he was a potential danger to the public, why did they leave their confrontation to the point where he was able to get on to a tube train? Why did he run/refuse to obey? (The common assumption here, it seems, is "because he was stupid/confused/whatever"; the reality is "currently unknown.")

Really, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out either way - it seems quite possible to me that he was simply panicked and foolish, and that the police were indeed acting soundly and for the greater good. But it seems equally possible that they made mistakes, and that this entire incident could have been avoided altogether.

 

[Tom]

In this country, the people that are responsible for the death of this man are the officers who shot him. Their suspicions do not negate that fact, they just help justify it.

There will be an inquest no doubt, and the truth will be revealed at that inquest, and the matter will be dealt with. Personally, I'm going to keep my thoughts to myself until I see the official verdict.

 

[Escape]

The flat in Stockwell was under surveilance, the special branch watching it would have been expecting suspects to leave it and travel across London.

In a high profile case like this, with practically unlimited resources, how would you prepare the nearest tube station? Get some undercover officers down there!

From the news reports, it sounds like the only officers involved were the 20 or so following him!

 

[Skyler]

I still stand by what I said earlier even if it seems he is not connected with the bombings.

He still made a collosal mistake at a very bad time for whatever reason and paid a very high price. It's unfortunate that this happens but what on earth posessed him to run away like that into a tube station of all places.

We shouldn't penalise the special forces for doing their jobs, they are trying to protect us and it's not exactly easy to deal with suicide bombers. Clearly in their eyes he could well be on his way to blowing himself up and they aren't going to take risks like that.

 

[Tom]

Its more than unfortunate Skyler, its tragic, and lessons must be learnt to ensure this does not happen ever again.