Lag whine thread #213

[Tharion]

bla bla bla LAG, bla bla bla gonna quit and play WoW bla bla bla...

ZZZzzzz

 

[Skaven]

If you want the situation to improve please cancel your accounts maybe when they start losing (even more) customers it will trigger them into doing something.

Im happy with the service im getting tbh. Overall I think compared to some of the other orpgs that ive played in terms of lag/downtime it's pretty good. It's only been this weekend when ive had problems. Yeah a few free days would be nice, but hell what does it actually cost me? 40p or whatever it is in 2 free days and a little inconvenience? My life doesn't revolve around daoc so I go and do something else and wait for opentransit to fix the lag.

 

[Kathal]

Talkin out of your own experiences, eh?

And what does my rl has to do with Goa not providing the information that the one I qouted said?

And for me living with my parents, nah... moved out quite some time ago...

Anything more u want to know about my private life before u propose to me?

Guess ur post was just another caser of "I have no clue about what they r talkin about but if i post something kewl about the dudes rl i will look really kewl in the eyes of all my leet friends that occupies fh"

/dismiss

So you have no excuse. You are just plain old ignorant and a crybaby.

rofl

He is right you know?
All we need to know is that they are aware of the problem and they are working on it (ie. sending info to OT so OT can fix it).
Do you want test results that you can't understand? Not likely you will due to the secrecy. We don’t want hackers to get this info now do we? (Not that I know if hackers actually can use this info to anything).

This is not the Military, dude. This is a customer/service-provider relation. And the customers not only "need" to know what´s going, it´s their goddamn RIGHT to get informations.

Well he was just replying to another post that compared the situation with the military (And shot down the argument really good).

 

[scorge]

Well he was just replying to another post that compared the situation with the military (And shot down the argument really good).

Well he didn't really shoot down the argument, i just could not be bothered to explain the "need to.." principles in military terminology.

there are three "need to" principles:

need to know
need to take
need to keep

the only reason they are used is for operational security.

Unless of course your saying that GoA is enforcing "operational securiity" with regards to Lag ?

what are they going to do sneak iinto Opentransits office and fix the equipment themselves

Thinking about it that might actually be quicker...

 

[Xalin]

clicky

 

[jokke]

clicky

 

[Castus]

I understand that the gms here and to a lesser extent the E&E have to be seen to support everything that goa do or tell them but can i ask some questions and get your honest opinion?

If OT comeback to GOA and say yes there is a problem but it will take say 1month or more to fix ,and theres no guarantee it will be fixed,will GOA or yourselves then tell us we have to play on with the admittedly bad lag?

Do you/they agree with these people on this thread and more that those who think the lags bad should just plain leave the game?And that we should`nt complain at all wether on a forum or by email?

Does the American side of DAOC and its servers suffer the same lag issues that we experiance? And if not what is the differance between their version of OT and ours?

How long do you/they expect to give OT to fix the problems?Is the situation that OT have a binding contract for say a year and GOA can`t change supplier due to that contract not being fulfilled?

What suddenly caused all this lag and lds? I played fine for over 2 years and never ever went ld unless it was char not in use timer.

Do Everquest and other MMORPGs have the same problems that u know of?

Maybe some have alrdy been answered and apologies if they have, i don`t want to whine i just honestly wanna play a game i`ve enjoyed for a very long time now without becoming dejected and frustrated like the majority of players it seems.

 

[IainC]

I understand that the gms here and to a lesser extent the E&E have to be seen to support everything that goa do or tell them but can i ask some questions and get your honest opinion?

If OT comeback to GOA and say yes there is a problem but it will take say 1month or more to fix ,and theres no guarantee it will be fixed,will GOA or yourselves then tell us we have to play on with the admittedly bad lag?

Do you/they agree with these people on this thread and more that those who think the lags bad should just plain leave the game?And that we should`nt complain at all wether on a forum or by email?

Does the American side of DAOC and its servers suffer the same lag issues that we experiance? And if not what is the differance between their version of OT and ours?

How long do you/they expect to give OT to fix the problems?Is the situation that OT have a binding contract for say a year and GOA can`t change supplier due to that contract not being fulfilled?

What suddenly caused all this lag and lds? I played fine for over 2 years and never ever went ld unless it was char not in use timer.

Do Everquest and other MMORPGs have the same problems that u know of?

Maybe some have alrdy been answered and apologies if they have, i don`t want to whine i just honestly wanna play a game i`ve enjoyed for a very long time now without becoming dejected and frustrated like the majority of players it seems.

Ok then, from the top:

1: If OT come back to us and say they have found the problem but can't fix it for a month we will shout at them. Seriously, I can't imagine that once they identify the problem that they can't fix it within a reasonable amount of time. The issue so far has been convincing them they have an issue to resolve at all.

2: If things are going badly then you have every right to complain. I don't blame a single person who comes here or to RightNow or whenever after suffering sever lag to complain. What I would like to see is people listening to the answers they get and being realistic in their assumptions. There are too many people who don't understand the technical arguments weighing in with wrong assumptions and misinformed opinions. There are also some who seem to honestly believe that we have somehow engineered this situation purely to irritate them. The issue is being taken seriously at the highest levels in the company and we are doing everything we can to resolve it as fast as possible. To do otherwise would be stupid as it's clearly significantly affecting mot people's enjoyment of the game. As has been said however we are somewhat limited in what we can do directly.

3: Mythic did have lag issues at the launch of NF for two main reasons. One is that (just as here in Europe) people waited until live release to download the NF client thus placing an additional heavy load on the entire network. The other reason is that NF places significantly more strain on the game servers and network than previously. Mythic reacted to this by upgrading their servers inteh months following NF release. We took advice from Mythic regarding server load and upgraded our machines before the launch.
I'll explain about the 'American version of OT' in a later point.

4: I can't make promises or speak on behalf of OT. All I cansay is that we are pressuring them as much as possible to fix the problem. It's not the case that OT have a contract with us to provide service. OT own the French internet equipment. Any commercial traffic passing through France will be routed via OT hubs and routers. No matter who our ISP was, people would still use OT hubs to reach the game servers. OT is one of several companies who are, in effect, 'the internet'. They maintain all the nodes and hubs that internet traffic is routed through. Here in France Opentransit maintains this equipment. In the US it's mainly companies like UUnet and Sprintlink although Opentransit does operate there as well. Mythic's servers are reached through Sprintlink and MCI mainly.

5: If I knew what suddenly caused the lag, I'd be working as a network analyst for a lot more money than Goa pays me. It all started about two days before the NF beta when OT did some network maintenance. From that point on people were noticing unusually high amounts of lag. It was a little confusing at first as it wasn't clear whether it was just due to the beta test itself (which increased the traffic to our network) and the fact that Gorre, our test server was much lower spec than the main live servers. It wasn't until the beta test was almost over that it became clear there was an underlying problem with the main hubs that people were using to connect to our network with. Early pingplots suggested that it was an issue with a few of Opentransit's international routers. These are the big, powerful hubs that people who connect to servers in France from other countries will be routed through. People who connect to our servers from France (including us obviously) don't go through these routers and thus don't have a problem. We raised it with Opentransit who said they needed more proof to look into the issue. We asked the community for pingplots and a few weeks later actually started getting them.

6: I don't know. The problem is that there are so many causes of lag it's hard to pinpoint why people are suffering from it without additional information. The way a game is coded, the specs of your home computer, the speed of your connection, the load on the game server, the general conditions on the internet and the stability of each and every cable or piece of networking gear your data passes through on the way from your home to our servers all play a part. People complain about lag as if it were somthing with only one cause which can be solved. In reality you may very well be experiencing the same lag as someone else for a totally different reason.

 

[Grimmen]

I dont know about everyone else, but I had a very good connection last night. It was the first night for me in a long time that I didnt LD a single time and I only had one major lag that lasted for around 10 seconds or so. I usually get major lags atleast 5-6 times an hour.

You aware if OT has done anything Requiel or was I just a lucky guy last night?

 

[Thorwyn]

4: I can't make promises or speak on behalf of OT. All I cansay is that we are pressuring them as much as possible to fix the problem. It's not the case that OT have a contract with us to provide service. OT own the French internet equipment. Any commercial traffic passing through France will be routed via OT hubs and routers. No matter who our ISP was, people would still use OT hubs to reach the game servers. OT is one of several companies who are, in effect, 'the internet'. They maintain all the nodes and hubs that internet traffic is routed through. Here in France Opentransit maintains this equipment.

Thanks for the info!

So - legally spoken - you´re NOT considered a client of OT i.e you don´t have any business-relations with OT? Isn´t this a rather delicate situation for you as a provider of an online service? I mean, it´s bad enough that there is some sort of monopoly. Now if you don´t have any legal ways to enforce the stability of your service once it has left your own servers, then there is a "grey area" that nobody can control.
Don´t get me wrong, I don´t want to argue with you, I just want to know how the elements of the service are interacting.

 

[Flimgoblin]

had some 10s freeze lag last night but it was better than sunday

 

[bomaya]

I logged on last night for the first time in a few days and had horrendous lag. Three times it completely froze up and had to reboot my pc.

I was hoping to spend most of today playing but it looks like I might have to get a life instead.

 

[Castus]

Ok then, from the top:

1: If OT come back to us and say they have found the problem but can't fix it for a month we will shout at them. Seriously, I can't imagine that once they identify the problem that they can't fix it within a reasonable amount of time. The issue so far has been convincing them they have an issue to resolve at all.

2: If things are going badly then you have every right to complain. I don't blame a single person who comes here or to RightNow or whenever after suffering sever lag to complain. What I would like to see is people listening to the answers they get and being realistic in their assumptions. There are too many people who don't understand the technical arguments weighing in with wrong assumptions and misinformed opinions. There are also some who seem to honestly believe that we have somehow engineered this situation purely to irritate them. The issue is being taken seriously at the highest levels in the company and we are doing everything we can to resolve it as fast as possible. To do otherwise would be stupid as it's clearly significantly affecting mot people's enjoyment of the game. As has been said however we are somewhat limited in what we can do directly.

4: I can't make promises or speak on behalf of OT. All I cansay is that we are pressuring them as much as possible to fix the problem. It's not the case that OT have a contract with us to provide service. OT own the French internet equipment. Any commercial traffic passing through France will be routed via OT hubs and routers. No matter who our ISP was, people would still use OT hubs to reach the game servers. OT is one of several companies who are, in effect, 'the internet'. They maintain all the nodes and hubs that internet traffic is routed through. Here in France Opentransit maintains this equipment. In the US it's mainly companies like UUnet and Sprintlink although Opentransit does operate there as well. Mythic's servers are reached through Sprintlink and MCI mainly.

5: If I knew what suddenly caused the lag, I'd be working as a network analyst for a lot more money than Goa pays me. It all started about two days before the NF beta when OT did some network maintenance. From that point on people were noticing unusually high amounts of lag. It was a little confusing at first as it wasn't clear whether it was just due to the beta test itself (which increased the traffic to our network) and the fact that Gorre, our test server was much lower spec than the main live servers. It wasn't until the beta test was almost over that it became clear there was an underlying problem with the main hubs that people were using to connect to our network with. Early pingplots suggested that it was an issue with a few of Opentransit's international routers. These are the big, powerful hubs that people who connect to servers in France from other countries will be routed through. People who connect to our servers from France (including us obviously) don't go through these routers and thus don't have a problem. We raised it with Opentransit who said they needed more proof to look into the issue. We asked the community for pingplots and a few weeks later actually started getting them.

.

So if OT comeback from the pingplot evidence and say for example its not a problem with their side and that its a fault of our isps etc then we`ll be told?Or what if fixing the problems for people outside France causes problems for OT customers inside France, will they still fix it?What kind of response time do OT give GOA on sorting the problem?It`s been close to 2 months now from when u admit that the lag got seriously bad.


Thnx for the reply and OT explanation.I personally thought and would assume alot of otehr people did that OT were a company that GOA went out and chose rather than had to use.

 

[Cracked]

"The issue is being taken seriously at the highest levels in the company and we are doing everything we can to resolve it as fast as possible."

Requiel, that was all u had to include in the first post about it on camelot-europe's friday news. Instead u had a small notice way down in it stating "some lag problems". By your statement here it actually sounds like u are takeing it seriously.

I became pissed off becuse of your friday news statement that u did't seem to care much and i threthened to cancel. When i got home late last night i checked to see if i had to cancel, but most of the lag was gone, i suffered a couple of spikes, but it was in no way unplayable as it was on saturday/sunday. Thx for whatever u did to get rid of it, my accounts are still active.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

This is not the Military, dude. This is a customer/service-provider relation. And the customers not only "need" to know what´s going, it´s their goddamn RIGHT to get informations.

I quoted the military thing in response to the quote in my post, learnt ot read before flaming idiot. GOA have told you all there is to know, simple, again as I said before if they quoted the full technical details of the problem, 99% of people on here would be scratching their heads.

Erivoss, is there an ombudsman in France we can direct complaints to? Like we have Oftel in the UK, is there a French equivalent we can post to, as OT tend to send nasty emails threatening to report us for spam if we mail them again.

 

[Thorwyn]

I quoted the military thing in response to the quote in my post, learnt ot read before flaming idiot. GOA have told you all there is to know, simple, again as I said before if they quoted the full technical details of the problem, 99% of people on here would be scratching their heads.

ROFL!
Yeah, dude, you´re the man! You really are.

First of, I didn´t "flame" you. Show me one, only ONE word in my entire post that could be even remotely considered a flame. I can only see one person here who´s flaming and using insults and that´s you, muppet.
And before you´re asking people "ot learnt" to read it might be a good idea "ot learnt" how to spell. Spelling is a requirement for reading you know.

Now go back to your GoA fanboy hq.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

ROFL!
Yeah, dude, you´re the man! You really are.

First of, I didn´t "flame" you. Show me one, only ONE word in my entire post that could be even remotely considered a flame. I can only see one person here who´s flaming and using insults and that´s you, muppet.
And before you´re asking people "ot learnt" to read it might be a good idea "ot learnt" how to spell. Spelling is a requirement for reading you know.

Now go back to your GoA fanboy hq.

<insert random insults here to wind him up more>

My appologies, it didnt seem you had read the post I was quoting. You didnt flame but you sure to bite real easeh (oh I spelt that wrong too, slap me with a rubber fish!)

PS, typing skills are not a prerequisit to reading.

 

[Thorwyn]

/me slaps old.Wohoodoo with a rubber fish

 

[scorge]

4: I can't make promises or speak on behalf of OT. All I can say is that we are pressuring them as much as possible to fix the problem. It's not the case that OT have a contract with us to provide service. OT own the French internet equipment. Any commercial traffic passing through France will be routed via OT hubs and routers. No matter who our ISP was, people would still use OT hubs to reach the game servers. OT is one of several companies who are, in effect, 'the internet'. They maintain all the nodes and hubs that internet traffic is routed through. Here in France Opentransit maintains this equipment. In the US it's mainly companies like UUnet and Sprintlink although Opentransit does operate there as well. Mythic's servers are reached through Sprintlink and MCI mainly.

If then OT have no contract to provde a service, then in theory they do not have to fix the problem? If fixing the problem causes more problems in other areas then OT might not fix it, After all they are the "internet" for france, there are probably more important things than GoA.

Out of curiosity then, if you have no contract with OT to provide Bandwidth for the Servers, who do you have it with?

 

[Mehuge]

Yes we have 'admitted' there is a problem. We have also raised the issue with OT however without evidence of where and when people are getting problems they cannot do anything.
There is nothing wrong with our servers or network, it all runs fine. The problems are in the routing you use to reach our network. Routing that is entirely out of our control as it is owned and maintained by another company.
...

It is up to GOA to sort it out with OT if you believe OT is responsible for causing some/all of the lag, or with the servers if you think it is those causing the problem, it is hurting your business.

The lag I see since NF gives the same symptoms as the lag that started around the time of the OT changes, this does not mean they are the same of course.

I regularily run pingplotter traces, running on my lappy at side of my PC, and have yet to see anything anwhere along the route to the server during a lag spike to suggest it is OT, since the NF patch at least and even before that.

What I have noticed, and I think this is significant, is that I will get a lag spike on one account and not on the other account running on a PC right next to the first, taking exactly the same network route to the server at exactly the same time, logged into the same server and realm, generally in a different area/zone however, e.g. one at svasud the other in odins, or Jamtland and the other at Odins.

What I do know for sure, is that recently (over the weekend for sure) the lag spikes made the game unplayable.

 

[Wert]

As far as i know the lag is fixed, havent had anything worth mentioning for 2 days now. Had occasional ones during things like keep takes (not fps before someone says it is ) but that is understandable under the circumstances. So stop going on about it. Please.

 

[kirennia]

Spelling is a requirement for reading you know.

Arinocdcg to rencet rseaerch, the hmuan brian is plrectfey albe to raed colmpex pasasges of txet caiinontng wdors in whcih the lrettes hvae been jmblued, pvioedrd the frsit and lsat leetrts rmeian in teihr crcerot piiotsons.

The fcat taht you are ridenag tihs now wtih reaitvle esae is poorf of the thoery.

So spelling is less of a requirement then most think!

 

[Wert]

Arinocdcg to rencet rseaerch, the hmuan brian is plrectfey albe to raed colmpex pasasges of txet caiinontng wdors in whcih the lrettes hvae been jmblued, pvioedrd the frsit and lsat leetrts rmeian in teihr crcerot piiotsons.

The fcat taht you are ridenag tihs now wtih reaitvle esae is poorf of the thoery.

So spelling is less of a requirement then most think!

Omg - hate is bliss :worthy: i can't believe i just read that as if it was spelled prefectly

 

[Justicator]

Is this EVER going to be sorted or will GOA continue to hide behind it's network provider?

Problem will be sorted when GOA has to shut down their servers.

 

[Kathal]

Arinocdcg to rencet rseaerch, the hmuan brian is plrectfey albe to raed colmpex pasasges of txet caiinontng wdors in whcih the lrettes hvae been jmblued, pvioedrd the frsit and lsat leetrts rmeian in teihr crcerot piiotsons.

The fcat taht you are ridenag tihs now wtih reaitvle esae is poorf of the thoery.

So spelling is less of a requirement then most think!

OMG!!!

 

[Justicator]

Funny that US servers work a lot better than euro servers. Pretty much a miracle if I don't go ld atleast once a day on euro. Been playing 2 months on US now and not even one ld and no lag spikes.

 

[Kathal]

Funny that US servers work a lot better than euro servers. Pretty much a miracle if I don't go ld atleast once a day on euro. Been playing 2 months on US now and not even one ld and no lag spikes.

And you STILL don't get it

 

[Grimmen]

Arinocdcg to rencet rseaerch, the hmuan brian is plrectfey albe to raed colmpex pasasges of txet caiinontng wdors in whcih the lrettes hvae been jmblued, pvioedrd the frsit and lsat leetrts rmeian in teihr crcerot piiotsons.

The fcat taht you are ridenag tihs now wtih reaitvle esae is poorf of the thoery.

So spelling is less of a requirement then most think!

Now thats really cool