Israel/Palestine (Conflict to more Conflicts)

[Scouse]

British Doctor returned to London...

London surgeon says he saw ‘massacre unfold’ while working in Gaza hospitals

Prof Ghassan Abu-Sittah claims destruction of Palestinian health system was an Israeli objective

www.theguardian.com

 

[Scouse]

So, ceasefire up at 5am. WHO say that the medical situation in Gaza resembles a "horror movie" and that the situation is already "catastrophic".

Meanwhile, Israel's already notched up more than 110 kills. Which is nice for them. Averaging ~4 children an hour.

 

[Scouse]

Does destroying Hamas in a targetted and proportional fashion also mean destroying all nature in the area too?




This picture shows very clearly what Israel's true intent is.

 

[Embattle]

Israeli Destruction Forces.

 

[Scouse]

Attacks not such a surprise?

Israel investigates claims investors made millions short-selling before Hamas attacks

US professors detected unusual trading activity on Tel Aviv and US stock exchanges before 7 October

www.theguardian.com

|short selling| exceeded the short-selling that occurred during numerous other periods of crisis”

That includes the recession after the financial crisis in 2008, the 2014 Israel-Gaza war, and the Covid-19 pandemic.

 

[Wij]

Attacks not such a surprise?

Israel investigates claims investors made millions short-selling before Hamas attacks

US professors detected unusual trading activity on Tel Aviv and US stock exchanges before 7 October

www.theguardian.com

Not sure what you are trying to imply but it might not even have happened:

Tel Aviv Stock Exchange says report traders told of Hamas attack in advance is inaccurate and irresponsible

One of the researchers behind the 67-page report said it had been corrected, but the issue did not affect the "highly unusual" activity they identified taking place before the attack.

news.sky.com

 

[Scouse]

Not sure what you are trying to imply but it might not even have happened:

Tel Aviv Stock Exchange says report traders told of Hamas attack in advance is inaccurate and irresponsible

One of the researchers behind the 67-page report said it had been corrected, but the issue did not affect the "highly unusual" activity they identified taking place before the attack.

news.sky.com

They say some of the trades are miscalculations but it doesn't rebuff the whole report.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if someone made a lot of money on this. (I mean, other than arms manufacturers).

 

[Wij]

They say some of the trades are miscalculations but it doesn't rebuff the whole report.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if someone made a lot of money on this. (I mean, other than arms manufacturers).

So, Hamas then.

 

[Scouse]

‘Apocalyptic’ conditions in southern Gaza blocking aid, top UN official says

Martin Griffiths says continuing offensive has ended any possibility of meaningful humanitarian operations

www.theguardian.com

UN says that them, and all other aid operations, can now no longer offer any meaningful aid to the 2.3 million civilians other than asking Israel to stop.

 

[Scouse]

So, Hamas then.

Yeah, quite likely. Makes sense to me.

 

[Scouse]

Israel’s use of disproportionate force is a long-established tactic – with a clear aim | Paul Rogers

The strategy goes well beyond defeating an opponent: it seeks to destroy key infrastructure and the economy, says academic Paul Rogers

www.theguardian.com

 

[Scouse]

View: https://twitter.com/antonioguterres/status/1732457928496496793?s=46&t=RpisxvZhFMzeDrd_1gTcCQ

 

[Scouse]

 

[Scouse]

Israel-Gaza war: Half of Gaza's population is starving, warns UN

Conditions in Gaza have made the delivery of food almost impossible, the UN World Food Programme says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Half starving. And starving means dying from hunger. 9 out of 10 people can't eat every day.

Collective punishment.

 

[Scouse]

And whilst 'we're' at it - an Israeli study says the civilian proportion of deaths is higher than that in all world conflicts in 20th century.

Civilians make up 61% of Gaza deaths from airstrikes, Israeli study finds

Civilian proportion of deaths is higher than the average in all world conflicts in second half of 20th century, data suggests

www.theguardian.com

I mean, I know it's only me left posting in this thread - but silence is complicity (as Einstein and MLK both said) - so I'll keep on truckin'.

 

[Embattle]

Well nothing has changed for me, but not do I believe people not posting is a form of complicity.

 

[Scouse]

Not a word about the starving population or record civilian deaths in any 'war' for the last 100+ years?

Still think that Israel's justified in what it's doing?

 

[Embattle]

Not a word about the starving population or record civilian deaths in any 'war' for the last 100+ years?

Still think that Israel's justified in what it's doing?

I don't think anyone here has justified it.

 

[Scouse]

OK, it's late, I've been drinkin' but I don't know what you mean by this then, is all...

Well nothing has changed for me

 

[Wij]

Not a word about the starving population or record civilian deaths in any 'war' for the last 100+ years?

Still think that Israel's justified in what it's doing?

Clarify that you mean percentage-wise. Not absolute numbers because obviously not that. 1 example:

Casualties of the Syrian civil war - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Embattle]

OK, it's late, I've been drinkin' but I don't know what you mean by this then, is all...

I've disagreed with what Israel is doing all along, I don't believe it will work and in fact just make it worse.

 

[Scouse]

Clarify that you mean percentage-wise. Not absolute numbers because obviously not that. 1 example:

Casualties of the Syrian civil war - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It's very very clear in the article - even in the title of the link that says it's 61% of all deaths, in an Israeli study.

Israel is deliberately targetting civilians. It's killing more civilians per fucking bomb than in any war for over a hundred years.

I doesn't need any need any further clarification. Ridiculously unnecessary nitpicking belies your apologism...

 

[DaGaffer]

It's very very clear in the article - even in the title of the link that says it's 61% of all deaths, in an Israeli study.

Israel is deliberately targetting civilians. It's killing more civilians per fucking bomb than in any war for over a hundred years.

I doesn't need any need any further clarification. Ridiculously unnecessary nitpicking belies your apologism...

WW2 was about 2/3 civilian deaths.

And it's neither here nor there. I don't think anyone on here is defending the death toll, but personally? I don't care. I don't care about either side. I could pretend I do, pretending to agree with things seems to be what we do now, but I just don't give a shit. Sorry. Oh, no, I'm not sorry. Sorry.

 

[Scouse]

I don't care about either side. I could pretend I do, pretending to agree with things seems to be what we do now, but I just don't give a shit. Sorry. Oh, no, I'm not sorry. Sorry.

Fair enough.

I do. Always have. Human suffering of any kind has always had an outsize effect on me. But I'm particularly angry about Israel for a lot of reasons:

• Our financial and military support
• Our political support
• Our supposed "moral" stance and how that reflects on the country that I live in and our supposed allies in the "free world"
• The fact that, according to Israeli's themselves, they're beating World War 2 for the proportion of civilian casualties. And that's the Israeli's saying that - people with potentially a vested interest in playing it down.
• The effect that Israel and our continued unabashed support has on our safety
• The effect that Israel has on our general discourse - political and otherwise - and the outsize effect this has on people's lives outside of the tiny little dirtball of religious bigotry
• It's just so obviously disgusting to absolutely be so obviously morally hypocritical and be in a position to do something about it, yet we don't.

I guess that, most of all, this conflict more than any other shows the whole world what is wrong with the human race. And it really really fucks me off because, despite our crippling genetic heritage, I don't think we necessarily have to be that way. We can change our systems for the better. But I don't see us doing that. I see us going backwards, if anything.

You once said, maybe glibly, that 1996 was "peak human". I fully agree.

 

[Scouse]

Israel is losing the war against Hamas – but Netanyahu and his government will never admit it | Paul Rogers

The official narrative has been that Hamas is weakened, but in reality the IDF’s doctrine of massive force is failing, says academic Paul Rogers

www.theguardian.com

 

[DaGaffer]

Israel is losing the war against Hamas – but Netanyahu and his government will never admit it | Paul Rogers

The official narrative has been that Hamas is weakened, but in reality the IDF’s doctrine of massive force is failing, says academic Paul Rogers

www.theguardian.com

What makes that possible is Netanyahu’s dependence on an extremist minority of religious fundamentalists and trenchant Zionists in his government. They would not have anything like the wider support in Israel were it not for the tragedy of 7 October, yet they are doing more and more harm to Israel’s long-term security. Not only does Israel risk becoming a pariah state, even among its allies, but it will also fuel a generation of radical opposition from a reconstituted Hamas or its inevitable successor.

Basically what I said on the first page of this thread, and not because I'm some political genius, but because it was completely fucking obvious.

 

[Scouse]

Probably 10,000 children dead (if we count the ones under the rubble). If not, then as Israel is killing one every ten minutes (not counting the atrocities they're carrying out in the West Bank) it won't be long.

Photos: Israel’s war on Gaza’s children

Gaza dubbed ‘a graveyard’ for children as more than 8,000 children killed and thousands displaced by Israel’s war.

www.aljazeera.com

This is one of the lucky ones. I'll whack her in spoiler tags...

Spoiler

Israel needs it's government wiping off the map.

 

[Scouse]

So, now we're doing Saudi Arabia's dirty work by bombing Yemeni "rebels" "freedom fighters" terrorists, who kicked out the Saudi-aligned government.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-67952029

Nice to be a called a "key ally" of Saudi isn't it.

This Israeli-caused regional conflagration is spreading.

 

[Wij]

So, now we're doing Saudi Arabia's dirty work by bombing Yemeni "rebels" "freedom fighters" terrorists, who kicked out the Saudi-aligned government.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-67952029

Nice to be a called a "key ally" of Saudi isn't it.

This Israeli-caused regional conflagration is spreading.

The Houthis are another Iranian-backed terrorist group. Iran is expanding the war by attacking shipping.

 

[Scouse]

The Houthis are another Iranian-backed terrorist group. Iran is expanding the war by attacking shipping.

So we should be supporting Saudi Arabia?

We should be bombing other countries? Getting directly militarily involved ourselves?

And for what? Because a handful of non-British container ships are getting nabbed (and in the case of the last one, I think it was stolen back).

And all whilst, instead of stopping our Israeli ally from committing war crimes, we're enabling them.