Is this what society has come to?

[Scouse]

Um


View: https://twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1098005566268547072

The ridiculousness of that (and it is ridiculous) simply supports the argument that we need to separate gender and sex...

Like I said - this isn't a massive deal in countries where gender, sex and sexual preference are expressed in non-binary terms.

 

[Wij]

Um


View: https://twitter.com/elliscashmore/status/1097551139502022657

 

[Scouse]

Um


View: https://twitter.com/elliscashmore/status/1097551139502022657

Can't read it unless accept all.

Summarise? I'm presuming they're talking about biologically female who identify as male?

 

[Wij]

Can't read it unless accept all.

Summarise? I'm presuming they're talking about biologically female who identify as male?

Pretty much. If they claim to be men then they are men therefore men have babies.

 

[Scouse]

Pretty much. If they claim to be men then they are men therefore men have babies.

Meh.

You're not gonna lose any sleep over it are ya

 

[Wij]

That article no. It’s just dumb. Whatever.

Men blagging their way into women’s prisons is a bit more concerning.

 

[Scouse]

Men blagging their way into women’s prisons is a bit more concerning.

Not really. In the vanishingly small amounts of time that would ever happen I'd struggle to give much of a fuck - they're the criminal fraternity after all, and you have to be a shockingly horrid cunt to actually get put in prison.

I think that'd be the least of their troubles.

 

[Wij]

That’s not exactly a progressive attitude.

It happens:

Sexual assaults in women's prison reignite debate over transgender inmates

Can you honestly think of a reason to disagree with this (from the article):

She added: “In my view, any man who has committed a serious sexual or violent offence against women, who then wants to transfer but has not gone through the whole process, still has a penis and still has male hormones, should not be put into a women’s prison. There may be a case for having separate provision; that is a debate to be had.”

 

[Gwadien]

Go through the usual procedures of sexual assaults in prison - surely she would be on solitary after the first couple?

 

[Bodhi]

You know the Trans movement has completely jumped the shark, when Martina Navaratilova is seen as transphobic, just for suggesting it's not entirely fair for men identifying as women to play other women at sports.

LGBT group drops Martina Navratilova over transgender comments

 

[Wij]

Go through the usual procedures of sexual assaults in prison - surely she would be on solitary after the first couple?

Um - someone would have been raped. Regardless of the fact these are prisoners, taking reasonable precautions against rape is better than punishing the rapist afterwards surely?

Do you actually think that the statement above (“In my view, any man who has committed a serious sexual or violent offence against women, who then wants to transfer but has not gone through the whole process, still has a penis and still has male hormones, should not be put into a women’s prison. There may be a case for having separate provision; that is a debate to be had.”) is in any way unreasonable?

 

[Wij]

You know the Trans movement has completely jumped the shark, when Martina Navaratilova is seen as transphobic, just for suggesting it's not entirely fair for men identifying as women to play other women at sports.

LGBT group drops Martina Navratilova over transgender comments

Fair play to Martina. Very brave in the current climate to say so.

As a bare minimum anyone who has been through puberty as a male cannot fairly compete against someone who went through puberty as a female. It would just mean the destruction of womens sport.

 

[Scouse]

Can you honestly think of a reason to disagree with this (from the article):

Nope. But:

The Ministry of Justice has apologised in White’s case and said previous offending history was not taken into account. Requests for transfer from prisoners whose legal gender does not accord with their self-identified gender are normally assessed by a transgender case board, “which should consider all previous offending history”, but this was not carried out in this case.

...procedural error results in fuckup.

Not 'make life hard for innocent transgender people (at no real cost to anyone else) just in case criminals act like criminals'.

I spend more time thinking about transgender people whilst sat on Freddyshouse than I do at any point in my real life. - Which has added up to zero time, in fact, other than when I spot the odd obvious cross-dresser when in the pub and think "good on you" (rather than laughing with my mates, like I did when I was fifteen).

This whole argument is kind of pointless. Give them what they want - it'll affect so few people so little of the time that once they get their own way the rest of us can go back to ignoring them.

Gay people have gay marriage, equal rights, yadda yadda yadda. I remember the furore when I was growing up over all sorts of stuff. Nobody cares any more*...

(*but @Job)

 

[Job]

Your endless approach, which is a classic liberal rut, is that you only think things matter if they affect you personally or catch your attention often enough.

Meh, it doesn't matter, let 'someone ' deal with it.

 

[Scouse]

Meh, it doesn't matter, let 'someone ' deal with it.

It's a question of two sets up very small numbers:

1) The tiny proportion of humans who are transgender who will benefit greatly from a step-change in their ability to live how they want.
2) The miniscule proportion of humans who stand to potentially lose from this.

and, if you want, 3) - the general population, who, once 1) get their way will never have to visit this again, and probably won't notice anything anyway.

1) trumps 2).

You're part of 3). You want to stop 1) getting their way, but it's not because of 2), it's because you don't like 1).


We've been through all that before with gay people. And nobody (but you) cares any more. And I've certainly not been sexually assaulted by the hordes of openly gay people that now freely roam the streets, kissing each other in their disgusting fashion.

 

[Embattle]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wllXY322K7Q

 

[Job]

It's a question of two sets up very small numbers:

1) The tiny proportion of humans who are transgender who will benefit greatly from a step-change in their ability to live how they want.
2) The miniscule proportion of humans who stand to potentially lose from this.

and, if you want, 3) - the general population, who, once 1) get their way will never have to visit this again, and probably won't notice anything anyway.

1) trumps 2).

You're part of 3). You want to stop 1) getting their way, but it's not because of 2), it's because you don't like 1).


We've been through all that before with gay people. And nobody (but you) cares any more. And I've certainly not been sexually assaulted by the hordes of openly gay people that now freely roam the streets, kissing each other in their disgusting fashion.

Yet again..I've never been affected..so meh.

 

[Scouse]

Yet again..I've never been affected..so meh.

the rest of the WORDS matter @Job...


unless you're saying this:

I've certainly not been sexually assaulted by the hordes of openly gay people that now freely roam the streets

is the reason for your attitude?

 

[Wij]

So Martina’s wrong too?

 

[Gwadien]

Um - someone would have been raped. Regardless of the fact these are prisoners, taking reasonable precautions against rape is better than punishing the rapist afterwards surely?

Do you actually think that the statement above (“In my view, any man who has committed a serious sexual or violent offence against women, who then wants to transfer but has not gone through the whole process, still has a penis and still has male hormones, should not be put into a women’s prison. There may be a case for having separate provision; that is a debate to be had.”) is in any way unreasonable?

'There may be a case for having separate provision'

I mean, even if you had a woman going around sexually assaulting other women in the prison then it's not like they pat them on the head and tell them to get on with their time.

 

[Wij]

'There may be a case for having separate provision'

I mean, even if you had a woman going around sexually assaulting other women in the prison then it's not like they pat them on the head and tell them to get on with their time.

Buh?

 

[Scouse]

So Martina’s wrong too?

I personally don't think so.

I think, sadly, because we have binary-gender-specific sports (for what I think are good reasons) then there's going to be a minority who feel excluded. And that's really shit for them.

Maybe in the distant future more popular sports will be available down those lines. Or we'll measure ourselves in different ways. But either way, if we can accomodate now and improve larger numbers of peoples lives positively than we will negatively, then I think we should.

 

[Gwadien]

Buh?

I don't know.

I'd like to say let's make exceptions for people like this, but exceptions are hard.

Provide alternative provisions until they've had an op?

 

[Wij]

I don't know.

I'd like to say let's make exceptions for people like this, but exceptions are hard.

Provide alternative provisions until they've had an op?

That’s pretty much what it said. What if they don’t want an op or hormones?

 

[Gwadien]

That’s pretty much what it said. What if they don’t want an op or hormones?

Then keep them in alternative provisions until they do or specialists consider them safe enough to be in women's population.

 

[DaGaffer]

Then keep them in alternative provisions until they do or specialists consider them safe enough to be in women's population.

"Alternative provisions". And what would those be exactly?

 

[caLLous]

Expensive, for one.

 

[Job]

Ill have to say there are probably few womens prisons where a trans man is probably not going to the shit kicked out of him/herself on a weekly basis if she/he doesnt tow the line.

 

[Wij]

Um


View: https://twitter.com/WashTimes/status/1099714416977891328

 

[Wij]

Not really. In the vanishingly small amounts of time that would ever happen I'd struggle to give much of a fuck - they're the criminal fraternity after all, and you have to be a shockingly horrid cunt to actually get put in prison.

I think that'd be the least of their troubles.

Do vulnerable women in refuges get a more sympathetic hearing than women prisoners then?

Warning after transgender sex offender placed in women's hostel - The Courier