Is this what society has come to?

[Wij]

The answer to the swimming pool conundrum is to ban single sex spaces. Then people would go into their cubicles, get changed and get on with their lives instead of being prudy nosey wankers.

Same for wards in hospitals as well tbh. Mixed sex wards do better because men and women play off each other.

You're telling women that they can't have single-sex spaces because no one is allowed to stand up to pervy men?

 

[Scouse]

You're telling women that they can't have single-sex spaces because no one is allowed to stand up to pervy men?

No - I'm expressing my long held view that single sex spaces are stupid.

Pervey men/women/trans/gays/straights/yellow/brown/pink and black should be stood up to wherever we are - but that's a totally separate issue from changing rooms and single sex wards - and now we're on the subject - single sex schools too.

Single sex spaces are bad things. They compound our continuing british hang ups.

 

[Wij]

No - I'm expressing my long held view that single sex spaces are stupid.

Pervey men/women/trans/gays/straights/yellow/brown/pink and black should be stood up to wherever we are - but that's a totally separate issue from changing rooms and single sex wards - and now we're on the subject - single sex schools too.

Single sex spaces are bad things. They compound our continuing british hang ups.

Many women like having single-sex spaces. Don't their views matter?

 

[Job]

The problem is that shared sex areas in Europe have centuries of cultural social micro rules built in that us Brits will just stumble in to.

In Austria I was told to use the swimming pool showers in the last day, I opened the door and there were about 10 naked women including girls under 10 getting showered.
I scarpered back to reception..they thought it was hilarious.

Wtf..is it weird not to go in?
Do you maintain some unknown distance..or wait for certain ages to leave?
I went home smelly

 

[Scouse]

Many women like having single-sex spaces. Don't their views matter?

Doesn't mine?

 

[Wij]

Doesn't mine?

Shouldn't women decide what's best for them themselves?

 

[DaGaffer]

No - I'm expressing my long held view that single sex spaces are stupid.

Pervey men/women/trans/gays/straights/yellow/brown/pink and black should be stood up to wherever we are - but that's a totally separate issue from changing rooms and single sex wards - and now we're on the subject - single sex schools too.

Single sex spaces are bad things. They compound our continuing british hang ups.

while I certainly agree about schools, I definitely don’t agree that single sex spaces are inherently bad; that’s just nonsense.

In the case of swimming pools, while mixed changing rooms with cubicles make more sense, if they are unavailable (my local leisure centre has only recently redesigned the changing rooms at considerable expense), then women should emphatically have the right to not put up with this nonsense. Deal with problems based on how things are, not how they ideally should be.

 

[Scouse]

Shouldn't women decide what's best for them themselves?

Not all women think the way you've decided that they do @Wij.


Separately, away from your anger - look at Job's post. Don't you think there's a correlation between repressed western societies and this outrage over trans people?

We've covered it before so I don't really need an answer - other cultures don't give a shit about this like we do in the west.

 

[Scouse]

Deal with problems based on how things are, not how they ideally should be.

Agree to a point - but you should make changes that treat the whole better...

 

[Wij]

Separately, away from your anger - look at Job's post. Don't you think there's a correlation between repressed western societies and this outrage over trans people?

These are not trans people. They are pervy men taking advantage of trans ideology to perv and make women feel uncomfortable because that makes them feel better.

 

[Scouse]

These are not trans people. They are pervy men taking advantage of trans ideology to perv and make women feel uncomfortable because that makes them feel better.

1) says a tweet and
2) then both women and trans people are being abused here. Where's your sympathy for trans people - who are finding their lives made harder because pervs exist and dumb fucks lump them in with the pervs.

 

[DaGaffer]

Agree to a point - but you should make changes that treat the whole better...

Needs of the many etc. If you have separate changing rooms, the vast majority should not be inconvenienced for the sake of the few, or the one. This is the fundamental lie at the heart of the whole mermaid sub-culture; this isn’t about trans-rights, its fucking wish fulfilment at best, full-on trolling at worst.

 

[Wij]

Not all women think the way you've decided that they do @Wij.

I'm saying that women should make their own decisions about whether they want men in their spaces and woke men should fuck off trying to shame them about it.

 

[Scouse]

Needs of the many etc.

Tyrrany of the majority in this case tbphf.

 

[Wij]

Tyrrany of the majority in this case tbphf.

wtf?

 

[Scouse]

I'm saying that women should make their own decisions about whether they want men in their spaces and woke men should fuck off trying to shame them about it.

Like I said - point to some evidence that all women feel the same way about this all the time.

If 60% of the women in a single-sex changing room are perfectly OK with a trans woman getting changed should the feelings of a minority override the feelings of the others?

Especially when we *know* for certain that the problem is largely cultural? It just isn't an issue in large parts of the world?

I've sympathy with the sporting issues (and don't know how to resolve them) - but, whilst sympathetic to anyone who feels uncomfortable, I don't agree with your changing room stance.

It's a cultural issue. Our culture needs to change. Tyrrany of the majority - it's not a *need* to have single-sex changing room - it's a *want*. For trans people having a space to change is a need, and if we insist on these daft single-sex changing room then the appropriate choice for male>female trans people is the female room.

As this is a cultural problem we can change things. Ban sex segregated changing rooms - then men/women/trans/goats can get changed in their own cubicles and feel whatever body-shame shit they feel together.

 

[Wij]

You keep framing the issue as about trans people when given examples of pervy men taking advantage of trans ideology. You are avoiding the issue.

Also yes, swimming changing rooms with cubicles like at Center Parcs get round the issue but we don't have them everywhere at the moment so it's not a solution right now.

What do propose to do about the many examples of lads taking gloating selfies of themselves in ladies toilets because they can just declare themselves female and the women can go fuck themselves... bitches.

 

[DaGaffer]

Like I said - point to some evidence that all women feel the same way about this all the time.

If 60% of the women in a single-sex changing room are perfectly OK with a trans woman getting changed should the feelings of a minority override the feelings of the others?

Especially when we *know* for certain that the problem is largely cultural? It just isn't an issue in large parts of the world?

I've sympathy with the sporting issues (and don't know how to resolve them) - but, whilst sympathetic to anyone who feels uncomfortable, I don't agree with your changing room stance.

It's a cultural issue. Our culture needs to change. Tyrrany of the majority - it's not a *need* to have single-sex changing room - it's a *want*. For trans people having a space to change is a need, and if we insist on these daft single-sex changing room then the appropriate choice for male>female trans people is the female room.

As this is a cultural problem we can change things. Ban sex segregated changing rooms - then men/women/trans/goats can get changed in their own cubicles and feel whatever body-shame shit they feel together.

You can’t ban single sex changing rooms, not because of any ideological issues but simply practicality; it costs money to redesign changing rooms; half the leisure centres in the country would go bust, especially the municipal ones.

 

[Scouse]

You can’t ban single sex changing rooms, not because of any ideological issues but simply practicality; it costs money to redesign changing rooms; half the leisure centres in the country would go bust, especially the municipal ones.

Yeah I know. But over time we make structural changes.

In the meantime - trans people get to go where it's appropriate for them.

 

[Wij]

Yeah I know. But over time we make structural changes.

In the meantime - trans people get to go where it's appropriate for them.

And pervy blokes? Where can they go?

 

[DaGaffer]

Yeah I know. But over time we make structural changes.

In the meantime - trans people get to go where it's appropriate for them.

not trans-people tho. That’s the point.

 

[Gwadien]

not trans-people tho. That’s the point.

I think the problem is that this thread is all about trans bashing, and whilst it's alright to say this is all about pervy men, where do you draw the line of 'We need listen to these women!'

What about a proper card carrying trans woman? What if Sheila has a problem with her being in the female changing rooms? do we still listen to her or do we discriminate against the trans woman?

Or do we just create a very practical solution to the issue, and have single cubicle changing/showering facilities.

 

[Wij]

I think the problem is that this thread is all about trans bashing, and whilst it's alright to say this is all about pervy men, where do you draw the line of 'We need listen to these women!'

What about a proper card carrying trans woman? What if Sheila has a problem with her being in the female changing rooms? do we still listen to her or do we discriminate against the trans woman?

Or do we just create a very practical solution to the issue, and have single cubicle changing/showering facilities.

Still not answering the question then.

 

[Scouse]

And pervy blokes? Where can they go?

I've already addressed this in previous posts - and you didn't respond.

Criminals @Wij. That's what pervy blokes are.

Again - that's a crime against women AND trans people.

How would you solve it - whilst repecting the rights of all law abiding citizens?

 

[Scouse]

not trans-people tho. That’s the point.

Criminals then. Call the cops.

 

[Wij]

I've already addressed this in previous posts - and you didn't respond.

Criminals @Wij. That's what pervy blokes are.

Again - that's a crime against women AND trans people.

How would you solve it - whilst repecting the rights of all law abiding citizens?

If men can self-id as women and gender is what counts, not sex, then they aren't criminals. How would YOU solve it?

 

[DaGaffer]

I think the problem is that this thread is all about trans bashing, and whilst it's alright to say this is all about pervy men, where do you draw the line of 'We need listen to these women!'

What about a proper card carrying trans woman? What if Sheila has a problem with her being in the female changing rooms? do we still listen to her or do we discriminate against the trans woman?


Or do we just create a very practical solution to the issue, and have single cubicle changing/showering facilities.

Fucking hell. Re-engineering everything isn’t a practical solution. All you can do in that regard is mandate in new builds.

The irony with the rest of your comment is if there was a mechanism for identifying “proper card-carrying trans women” this whole conversation would be moot. In the absence of that the precautionary principle should apply, and if that hurts a few feelings, tough.

 

[Wij]

Fucking hell. Re-engineering everything isn’t a practical solution. All you can do in that regard is mandate in new builds.

The irony with the rest of your comment is if there was a mechanism for identifying “proper card-carrying trans women” this whole conversation would be moot. In the absence of that the precautionary principle should apply, and if that hurts a few feelings, tough.

Also, it begs the question what a card-carrying trans woman actually is.

Transsexual?
Transgender?
Transvestite?

All different things. How do you define, identify and ensure that pervs can't take advantage? Come up with a workable mechanism or get your opinions out of women's spaces.

 

[Bodhi]

It's a lot easier to do what they've done in California, and just put another sticker on the door of the disabled toilet and call it the gender neutral one.

 

[Gwadien]

Also, it begs the question what a card-carrying trans woman actually is.

Transsexual?
Transgender?
Transvestite?

All different things. How do you define, identify and ensure that pervs can't take advantage? Come up with a workable mechanism or get your opinions out of women's spaces.

What about gay men in changing rooms? Most men wouldn't have a problem with women perving on them in the changing room, but I'm sure they'd kick off about gay men perving on them in changing rooms, why can't we get this addressed too?