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Verena
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I'm sorry but your point is? Wtf has your uberness in the BG to do with this discussion?
I'm sorry but your point is? Wtf has your uberness in the BG to do with this discussion?
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Danya
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- #62
You missed speedsong Verena. 
I use 4 quickbars in RvR, there's a bit of repetition but that's unavoidable IMO.
Also Bard is a very powerful class, and yet they get boosted in later patches!
And before you say bla blah minstrel killed my bard. Bard is powerful as a support class, not as a killer. I can solo pretty much any Bard I see 1 vs 1, but that doesn't mean they aren't very good to have in RvR. Bards need groups, with a group they can change the course of battles far more effectively than a minstrel.
I use 4 quickbars in RvR, there's a bit of repetition but that's unavoidable IMO.
Also Bard is a very powerful class, and yet they get boosted in later patches!
And before you say bla blah minstrel killed my bard. Bard is powerful as a support class, not as a killer. I can solo pretty much any Bard I see 1 vs 1, but that doesn't mean they aren't very good to have in RvR. Bards need groups, with a group they can change the course of battles far more effectively than a minstrel.
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Danya
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- #63
BGs are irrelevant, being uber in a BG does not mean a person/class is uber in RvR, they are completely different.
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Verena
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- #64
Just let it be, he's one of those people that got owned by a minstrel and screams _nerf em!!!!!!_ on the VN boards.
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old.chesnor
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- #65
Err, right. So runeys dont get nearsight as well then
Sorry, but I know enough about the classes to know that a runey will own a Cabalist 1 on 1 on most occasions. Like any other duel situation, it is all down to who gets the jump (if cabby sends pet in and rm is asleep and the dots, maybee they have a chance). But a darkness OR rc specced rm with enough suppression for nearsight and 6s pbt will demolish a Cabalist. QC root on the pet anyone ?
What you failt to realise is that players like Dakkon Rockshoe don't just pick any old class hoping they will rake RPs because they are talented players. They pick RM because this is arguably the best caster in the game.
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lakih
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Verena...
I use 4 quickbars too, i really dont think thats very uncommon.
And my sarcasm was a bit unfair, as when i came to think of it i use quite a few buttons myself...
I use 4 quickbars too, i really dont think thats very uncommon.
And my sarcasm was a bit unfair, as when i came to think of it i use quite a few buttons myself...
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Verena
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Originally posted by old.chesnor
Err, right. So runeys dont get nearsight as well then
Sorry, but I know enough about the classes to know that a runey will own a Cabalist 1 on 1 on most occasions. Like any other duel situation, it is all down to who gets the jump (if cabby sends pet in and rm is asleep and the dots, maybee they have a chance). But a darkness OR rc specced rm with enough suppression for nearsight and 6s pbt will demolish a Cabalist. QC root on the pet anyone ?
What you failt to realise is that players like Dakkon Rockshoe don't just pick any old class hoping they will rake RPs because they are talented players. They pick RM because this is arguably the best caster in the game.
http://www.camelotherald.com/realms/Andred/
Scroll down a bit to the RP's and look at Dakkon. He's playing a eld now and is again doing very nice. You're argument is nice but doesn't hold ground. My point is that Dakkon can probably make every caster look like uber cause he knows damn well what he's doing.
My point is that a skilled player can make almost every class good but that doesn't mean they should all be nerfed.
How many RM's are there and how many cabbies are there. If the number would be equal you'd see what I mean. If you take a 50 cabbie he _can_ own a RM. RM can QC the pet but he'll waste a QC while the cabbie can do his thing. Now I'm not saying that a cabbie will kill a RM 100% of the time but I'm using it more as an example why there's a big difference between a skilled player or an overpowered class.
An overpowered class is when you put a chimp behind the keyboard and he can still own anyone.
A smite cleric, that's a class that's really overpowered cause they do exactly the same dmg as every other caster from all realms with their specline DD's. Only difference is the 4s cast time but their best DD does 210dmg. Just like the wiz/eld/ment/chanter.etc spec DD's.
Luckily Mythic finally realized it and they nerfed him and that was jusitfied IMO.
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Verena
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- #68
Originally posted by lakih
Verena...
I use 4 quickbars too, i really dont think thats very uncommon.
And my sarcasm was a bit unfair, as when i came to think of it i use quite a few buttons myself...
Hehe, I could use 6 if I would setup my keys so that I'd have all my best buttons on the right bars.
I have a lvl20 champ that has most of the skills he'll have at 50 too and I really can't compare them to my minstrels hotbar.
19 buttons with only 1 weaponstyle. We have slash/thrust chain combo's too but I just don't have room for it unless I want to use bar 5-6 too. Lucky I choose slash with 1 anytime style that's the only one I use in RvR. The positinal styles/chain combo's I have are all very cool too but it's too much of an annoyance to set them on my bar.
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Solid
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- #69
End of the day tis game is not a Mano a Mano game, its Realm vs Realm, and in that vein, some classes are geared to be their most effective in groups and not so effective solo. Some classes its the otherway around.
from experience, my Thane is a complete RvR gimp if I go solo, I got no speed to close attackers, nor long term ranged attacks to get casters, and no PBT to block melee attacks.
BUT I am great in even a small group composing Skald and Healer and Runemaster.
I do not complain that i cant kill most classes solo as I picked a very team oriented class.
Anyone who uses 1v1 as a reason to state a class as overpowered should go look at the PvP boards and see which classes are owning there.
namely Enchanters and Skalds, tho noone calls for nerf as its a very unique situation.
from experience, my Thane is a complete RvR gimp if I go solo, I got no speed to close attackers, nor long term ranged attacks to get casters, and no PBT to block melee attacks.
BUT I am great in even a small group composing Skald and Healer and Runemaster.
I do not complain that i cant kill most classes solo as I picked a very team oriented class.
Anyone who uses 1v1 as a reason to state a class as overpowered should go look at the PvP boards and see which classes are owning there.
namely Enchanters and Skalds, tho noone calls for nerf as its a very unique situation.
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old.Wicoa
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Author please close this link its like being back at Uni hearing endless waffle and only a few with the brains who know what they are talking about.
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ImLestat
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Lol, I never ever mentioned I was uber in the bg, never even claim to be. What I am saying however is that I don't suck as a player, now go read my previous post again, and you might even realize that... Another thing I am saying is that the thane is easier to play than my alt, a spiritmaster, how is it possible that I suck playing a thane when I don't when playing a sm? Oh, and your response to this is of course that if I suck or not does not have anything to do with this topic, but then check your own previous posts, and you will see that it does...
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old.LandShark
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I can't honestly be fucked reading through the rest of this post, so i apologise in advance if i'm repeating anyone.
By 1.51, stun duration is lowered by body resist. Because you can easily get a 6sec stun down to 3 or 4 secs, most people cap their body resist. 26% body resist cap on a lvl50. That means a minstrel gets at least 1 if not 2 fewer melee hits in before the target unstuns and starts chipping away at our l33t rogue hps (i have 930 at lvl47...).
Then consider that our DD's, quite apart from draining the entire power and most of the end bars in well under a minute, are also body-damage and thus get hit by the same highly popular resistance as our stun; ask any American sorc how heavily his DD has been reduced, and when he's done sobbing on your shoulder you'll find out what i mean.
Chain: ok, we have chain. Can't deny that; it's nice absorb and thrust isn't that common a dmg type, tho nightshades and rangers own me in pure melee. Even though i'm slash. Unless i have a full power bar and survive long enough to use 2 rounds of DD's.
PvE friendliness: I don't think it's exactly right-minded to say "oh, this class sux in PvE therefore it should own in RvR." or vice versa. No class should suck in PvE (not that assassins do...) and ideally none should suck in RvR either, but that's another issue altogether.
Stealth: yup, we got that.... we have the lowest specpoints of any stealther by 0.5xLvl, not to mention no criticalstrike/perforate-artery equivalent, no safefall, detect hidden, camo, see hidden, or climb wall. Oh, and our stealthed runspeed doesn't increase with additional speccing like an assassin's. Put simply, we have ghetto stealth. It's the paladin rezz of the stealth world.
I feel i have to ad we have the hybrid melee dmg table, rogue hit points, and only evadeII in the way of compensation for being unable to tank yellows in PvE....
Basically, if you have low hp (i.e. anything up to a skald or zerker of even lvl,, assuming said skald/zerker is unbuffed and badly equipped) then yes, if a minstrel catches you alone, comes out of stealth mezzing - THEN you're in trouble. Yes. Oh yep - absolutely. After the fight we'll have no power, probably no end, and usually lost a fair bit of hp.
</rant>
In summary, i like pie
and minstrels aren't overpowered - just don't walk around alone and you'll be safe from minstrels and assassins alike.
By 1.51, stun duration is lowered by body resist. Because you can easily get a 6sec stun down to 3 or 4 secs, most people cap their body resist. 26% body resist cap on a lvl50. That means a minstrel gets at least 1 if not 2 fewer melee hits in before the target unstuns and starts chipping away at our l33t rogue hps (i have 930 at lvl47...).
Then consider that our DD's, quite apart from draining the entire power and most of the end bars in well under a minute, are also body-damage and thus get hit by the same highly popular resistance as our stun; ask any American sorc how heavily his DD has been reduced, and when he's done sobbing on your shoulder you'll find out what i mean.
Chain: ok, we have chain. Can't deny that; it's nice absorb and thrust isn't that common a dmg type, tho nightshades and rangers own me in pure melee. Even though i'm slash. Unless i have a full power bar and survive long enough to use 2 rounds of DD's.
PvE friendliness: I don't think it's exactly right-minded to say "oh, this class sux in PvE therefore it should own in RvR." or vice versa. No class should suck in PvE (not that assassins do...) and ideally none should suck in RvR either, but that's another issue altogether.
Stealth: yup, we got that.... we have the lowest specpoints of any stealther by 0.5xLvl, not to mention no criticalstrike/perforate-artery equivalent, no safefall, detect hidden, camo, see hidden, or climb wall. Oh, and our stealthed runspeed doesn't increase with additional speccing like an assassin's. Put simply, we have ghetto stealth. It's the paladin rezz of the stealth world.
I feel i have to ad we have the hybrid melee dmg table, rogue hit points, and only evadeII in the way of compensation for being unable to tank yellows in PvE....
Basically, if you have low hp (i.e. anything up to a skald or zerker of even lvl,, assuming said skald/zerker is unbuffed and badly equipped) then yes, if a minstrel catches you alone, comes out of stealth mezzing - THEN you're in trouble. Yes. Oh yep - absolutely. After the fight we'll have no power, probably no end, and usually lost a fair bit of hp.
</rant>
In summary, i like pie
and minstrels aren't overpowered - just don't walk around alone and you'll be safe from minstrels and assassins alike.
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Verena
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- #73
You're saying minstrels are overpowered and I dissagree. There's nothing more to it.
If you can't win a fight with your Thane vs Minstrel then you're doing something wrong.
Again, a class is only as strong as the player behind the keyboard. Do you see me posting that they should nerf the spiritmasters cause you claim they're so powerfull in the BG's.
Nope, cause there's also plenty of sucky ones out there. The exact same goes for minstrels. Just cause you get owned by a minstrel everytime doesn't justify a scream for a nerf. He's probably a good player and if you'd be a good player you'd admit that instead of your whine for a nerf cause you get killed by them more then you like.
I'll quote Solid's reply. He's obviously a good player who does know what certain weaknesses mean in a game as DAoC. I'll say it again. If you're beat by a minstrel in a 1v1 everytime you're a sucky Thane! You have a 9sec slam stun that should buy you time to chop us into pieces.
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Solid
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Just to clear a few things up for ya Landy
Bezerkers are same hp table as Warriors ala Pure Melee, think its Skalds and Thanes you meant to say as they are the ones on rogue hp table.
Also Skalds and Thanes should, and usually do kill Minstrels if in a solo situation and the Minstrel is stupid enuff not to run or the Skald/Thane doesnt quite know what he is doing.
Apart from that niggly little fact, rest of what you said holds true.
[EDIT] May also want to note, the best minstrels on Prydwen atm are either RR4 or RR5, thats +3 or +4 to ALL skills. They are seasoned RvR veterans and have the +skills to make that extra bit of difference.
In essence as far as Midgard goes, Minstrels do not, or more accurately usually dont solo kill any of the Midgard Viking classes, they usually DD, DD, stun, whack, if it looks bad, they will mez and run. (this is what I have experienced trying to chase down Giona in the past, not had the pleasure of meeting COren solo yet tho
)
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ImLestat
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I agree with your first statement to 100%. I must say though, that YOU made the question of if I suck or not part of this issue, and I just responded. You also say that I hang around the vnboards screaming nerf, which I definitely do not. These kind of discussions tend to get out of hand quickly, and people will quickly resort to personal insults, which is why I usually stay out of them. And the only times I've ever visited the vnboards are when now and then someone has posted a link that seemed interesting to it. Now, a person posted this thread here, and I answered with my opinion, and my experience in this matter, which I still stand by. Of course it ends up being personal, and people tell me that I suck. Well, I guess I deserve it for even thinking that I could post here without it getting to that point.
Fyi, I've met solo minstrels even con maybe 4-5 times, all ended in the above described way, and you could perhaps tell me what I did wrong, because I sure as hell don't know. One of them, I actually thought I would surprise, when standing at the side of the mg in odins, started firing my non-insta lightning bolt as soon as he opened the door, and fired my insta soon after. He got his mez off right before my bolt, and I was standing there like a jerk again. Of course he used his two dd's first. The rest of the story you know already from reading my previous posts. If you wonder who it was, my memory fails me on that account, but I seem to think that it was Nilo, but I don't even know if he is a minstrel, so don't take my word for that.
I have no idea how Solid as a thane can say that minstrels aren't don't own him, but I'm quite positive that it isn't because I suck and he doesn't. After all, thanes aren't that hard to play. Maybe he has been lucky with his resists, beats me...
[Edit: Lol, just saw that 9sec stun thing... You think that every thane has that? Oh boy you are misinformed.... That is for those that spec to, hmmmm, 42 in shield if I don't remember wrong.]
Well, I'm dropping this discussion, hate when people take it to a personal level...
uke:
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old.Reckless <Lion>
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I think all that needs to be said has been said.....thanks solid
Minstrels are not overpowered! (and somewhat underpowered in 1.52 )
We can NOT solo even con tanks, especially not as a slash minstrel (i have 32 slash with a lot of strenght items). Against tanks in chain, i normally hit for 60(-40) damage . Whereas a strong tank will normally hit me for upwards of 250 damage per hit. If the opponent is using thrust damage, i may as well sit down and die (if i get enough time to press C, that is). Twice i have died to an even con hunter who has weapon specced high.... i just cant deal enough damage.
As a briton lvl 50 minstrel, i have 1116hp, with quite a few HP items. 3 DD's from a runie will kill me 90% of the time.
Although where a minstrel will excel, is attacking multiple lower con targets. I can come out of stealth and mez 1 or 2, kill the 3rd and maybe go back and kill another, before running off and hiding.
Personally i feel that all insta CC spells should be altered in some way. We get an insta stun, which is very good for escaping. But not once on this thread has anyone mentioned the skald insta-mez. Which makes them invulnerable 1 on 1. I attacked a blue con skald the other day. We were fighting for a few rounds and i was just about winning, when he mezzed me and ran off.
Overall we are a very nice class, which suffer from many problems and unfortunately as we are hybrids, most changes to game mechanics effect us also, ie purge, various RA (ignore pain for example makes fights last longer, whereas we simply dont have the endurance or power to fight for any longer), changes to block rates, parry will mean we will have no chance at all of killing a tank, we will just be burning more endurance on styles. See hidden will almost completely ruin our stealth (the stealth which we dont get any abilities for (climb, safe fall, etc) and we do not get camouflage. All that coupled with the fact that in fort raids and in large battles, the only usefull ability we give to the realm is powersong :| .
I dont expect to be playing my minstrel past 1.51 which is unfortunate because it is currently a very fun to play class.
Minstrels are not overpowered! (and somewhat underpowered in 1.52
)We can NOT solo even con tanks, especially not as a slash minstrel (i have 32 slash with a lot of strenght items). Against tanks in chain, i normally hit for 60(-40) damage
. Whereas a strong tank will normally hit me for upwards of 250 damage per hit. If the opponent is using thrust damage, i may as well sit down and die (if i get enough time to press C, that is). Twice i have died to an even con hunter who has weapon specced high.... i just cant deal enough damage.As a briton lvl 50 minstrel, i have 1116hp, with quite a few HP items. 3 DD's from a runie will kill me 90% of the time.
Although where a minstrel will excel, is attacking multiple lower con targets. I can come out of stealth and mez 1 or 2, kill the 3rd and maybe go back and kill another, before running off and hiding.
Personally i feel that all insta CC spells should be altered in some way. We get an insta stun, which is very good for escaping. But not once on this thread has anyone mentioned the skald insta-mez. Which makes them invulnerable 1 on 1. I attacked a blue con skald the other day. We were fighting for a few rounds and i was just about winning, when he mezzed me and ran off.
Overall we are a very nice class, which suffer from many problems and unfortunately as we are hybrids, most changes to game mechanics effect us also, ie purge, various RA (ignore pain for example makes fights last longer, whereas we simply dont have the endurance or power to fight for any longer), changes to block rates, parry will mean we will have no chance at all of killing a tank, we will just be burning more endurance on styles. See hidden will almost completely ruin our stealth (the stealth which we dont get any abilities for (climb, safe fall, etc) and we do not get camouflage. All that coupled with the fact that in fort raids and in large battles, the only usefull ability we give to the realm is powersong :| .
I dont expect to be playing my minstrel past 1.51
which is unfortunate because it is currently a very fun to play class.
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Coren
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- #77
Hmm, 3 page long thread about minstrels and I only notice it now. Damn work.
On the quickbar thing: I actually use only 2 all the time. Have a third one for melee (mainly because things like /stick and more than 1 style dont fit on any of my main bars) and a fourth one for things I only use once a month (healing song, lute, confuse, healing/mana bp orbs). Only hard thing with those quickbars is the amount of buttons you need to press before entering combat really. I'm usually running around with my speedsong/stealth quickbar up so I can stealth as soon as possible when needed. That only takes 2 buttons, a switch to my other quickbar and 2 more buttons to equip sword and shield. Then, when I spot an enemy, I need equip the flute, play mez, press 2 DD buttons, re-equip sword/shield, change back to the other quickbar, stealth, back to quickbar 1, 2 DD buttos again, stun button and after that it's mainly a matter of switching to my melee quickbar, press /stick button and spam the anytime button over and over again.
On the overpowed thing: the only reason why minstrels seem overpowered is because they have great ways to avoid combat when they know they'll die (speed/stealth/stun/mez), which means they won't get killed as much as 95% of the other classes. And having stealth allows them to pick their targets, which obviously means they will probably kill most of their targets aswell, since they won't attack someone they can't kill.
On the tank killing thing: Sorry Solid, minstrels can kill tanks. Ofcourse, a warrior or hero will tear them apart even when the minstrel jumps them, but a thane will drop more than 80% of the times I jump them. Same goes for champs and blademasters. Skalds can be killed when a high level pet is around and the same probably goes for zerkers (haven't got the honour of trying yet ). When the tank jumps the minstrel, the only option is to stun, mez (and pray that damn 'still in combat' thing won't happen ) and run.
Forgot to mention I'm slash, so a well equipped thrusting minstrel should have even less trouble vs thanes.
On the quickbar thing: I actually use only 2 all the time. Have a third one for melee (mainly because things like /stick and more than 1 style dont fit on any of my main bars) and a fourth one for things I only use once a month (healing song, lute, confuse, healing/mana bp orbs). Only hard thing with those quickbars is the amount of buttons you need to press before entering combat really.
I'm usually running around with my speedsong/stealth quickbar up so I can stealth as soon as possible when needed. That only takes 2 buttons, a switch to my other quickbar and 2 more buttons to equip sword and shield. Then, when I spot an enemy, I need equip the flute, play mez, press 2 DD buttons, re-equip sword/shield, change back to the other quickbar, stealth, back to quickbar 1, 2 DD buttos again, stun button and after that it's mainly a matter of switching to my melee quickbar, press /stick button and spam the anytime button over and over again. On the overpowed thing: the only reason why minstrels seem overpowered is because they have great ways to avoid combat when they know they'll die (speed/stealth/stun/mez), which means they won't get killed as much as 95% of the other classes. And having stealth allows them to pick their targets, which obviously means they will probably kill most of their targets aswell, since they won't attack someone they can't kill.
On the tank killing thing: Sorry Solid, minstrels can kill tanks. Ofcourse, a warrior or hero will tear them apart even when the minstrel jumps them, but a thane will drop more than 80% of the times I jump them. Same goes for champs and blademasters. Skalds can be killed when a high level pet is around and the same probably goes for zerkers (haven't got the honour of trying yet
). When the tank jumps the minstrel, the only option is to stun, mez (and pray that damn 'still in combat' thing won't happen ) and run.Forgot to mention I'm slash, so a well equipped thrusting minstrel should have even less trouble vs thanes.
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Danya
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- #78
As I said, thane vs minstrel, if the thane slams, the minstrel dies. If not then the thane is likely to die. TBH speccing a tank without slam is gimped anyway.
And yes Nilo was a minstrel, and a darn good one too.
And yes Nilo was a minstrel, and a darn good one too.
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Danya
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- #79
hmm Coren, does that mean I can go and own all the thanes now? woot! 
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Coren
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- #80
A thane that specced shield high enough to slam can't do enough damage in those 9 sec to kill you. And if he can, go get some +con/hp items or get those resists up before even thinking of going to the frontiers again.
And ofcourse you can kill thanes Dan. You'll be having the high melee spec like me, and have thrust instead of slash on top of that.
And ofcourse you can kill thanes Dan. You'll be having the high melee spec like me, and have thrust instead of slash on top of that.
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Meatballs
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- #81
Just repeating again incase anyone still believe minstrels have an instacast mez, THEY DO NOT. They need to equip a flute, and it has a casting time of 3seconds, which can be interrupted. They can be on the move during those 3 seconds though.
If you are getting dd, dd, mezzed, repeat by a minstrel, and they are sitting down to rest, get some friends please RvR isn't about 1-1 situations.
onto my skald whinge:
in RvR I reckon the instacast mez needs a recast of more like 5 minutes (like they did to the clerics), they need to be able to set these things to change from PvE and RvR to keep the PvE balanced if they did.
Range on the instacast snare should be closer to 1000 than 1500. It's hard enough to escape a skald with their runspeed (which they dont need to swop weapons to instruments for like like our poor minstrels do - give us more quickbar slots!) without any chance being snatched away buy an insta with a stupidly long range.
Otherwise both classes are great.
If you are getting dd, dd, mezzed, repeat by a minstrel, and they are sitting down to rest, get some friends please RvR isn't about 1-1 situations.
onto my skald whinge:
in RvR I reckon the instacast mez needs a recast of more like 5 minutes (like they did to the clerics), they need to be able to set these things to change from PvE and RvR to keep the PvE balanced if they did.
Range on the instacast snare should be closer to 1000 than 1500. It's hard enough to escape a skald with their runspeed (which they dont need to swop weapons to instruments for like like our poor minstrels do - give us more quickbar slots!) without any chance being snatched away buy an insta with a stupidly long range.
Otherwise both classes are great.
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Danya
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- #82
33 atm Coren, been pumping it lately (now that instruments isn't sucking all my points ). Need to get 39 for the attack speed debuff style though. That will help a fair bit I think.
). Need to get 39 for the attack speed debuff style though. That will help a fair bit I think.
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old.Cru
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- #83
Minstrels would be a complete class if they didn't have stealth that's simple. The Minstrels insta-mezz would be more of a bettle then instead of just going 2 paces away from your enemy and insta mezzing him. Minstrels shouldn't have stealth anyway as in real life they are just bloody singers and musicians. And don't get me started on berzerkers
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Verena
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- #84
Sorry Lestat if you feel that I'm attacking you on a personal level but I'm getting kinda bored of reading reply after reply from people who say we're overpowered just cause they got killed a few times.
To me there's a very big difference between a balanced class and an overpowered class.
Skalds are a nice example. Not many minstrels dare to say that they can beat a skald but I'm not saying they're overpowered. There's a couple of solid classes out there and screaming for a nerf is not the way to go. I'd rather see mythic enhance other classes and bring them upto par with some of the better classes in daoc instead of nerfing them into oblivion.
It's a fact that Mythic is very sensitive towards nerf whines and it has ruined many classes allready just cause some folks scream harder then others. If you'd play a minstrel you'd certainly wouldn't look forward to 1.51+ where 1 of our 3 speclines is allready nerfed to hell and they gave us an unwanted AE mezz for it to stop our whining. They started off nice though with a 3sec casting time but because people cried real loud they changed it into a 5sec spellcast(not a song) with a max of 26sec and a 250 radius with diminishing returns and the animation of a /victory. That's like adding a big bullseye on your chest with KILL ME written on it.
Lucky for the tank classes they're finally trying to give them a purpose to RvR so 1.51+ does bring some good stuff but if your class would be changed into a dedicated drumwhore you'd cry too
To me there's a very big difference between a balanced class and an overpowered class.
Skalds are a nice example. Not many minstrels dare to say that they can beat a skald but I'm not saying they're overpowered. There's a couple of solid classes out there and screaming for a nerf is not the way to go. I'd rather see mythic enhance other classes and bring them upto par with some of the better classes in daoc instead of nerfing them into oblivion.
It's a fact that Mythic is very sensitive towards nerf whines and it has ruined many classes allready just cause some folks scream harder then others. If you'd play a minstrel you'd certainly wouldn't look forward to 1.51+ where 1 of our 3 speclines is allready nerfed to hell and they gave us an unwanted AE mezz for it to stop our whining. They started off nice though with a 3sec casting time but because people cried real loud they changed it into a 5sec spellcast(not a song) with a max of 26sec and a 250 radius with diminishing returns and the animation of a /victory. That's like adding a big bullseye on your chest with KILL ME written on it.
Lucky for the tank classes they're finally trying to give them a purpose to RvR so 1.51+ does bring some good stuff but if your class would be changed into a dedicated drumwhore you'd cry too
D
Danya
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- Thread starter
- #85
What insta-mez? This has been said about 4 times in this thread alone. I'll say it again just to hammer it home...
MINSTREL HAS NO INSTAMEZ!
Getting the picture?
Also without stealth minstrel would be a gimped skald. You can't remove an entire specline from a class and expect it to be balanced, you have to give as well as take.
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Verena
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- #86
WE DON'T HAVE INSTAMEZ!!!!!! We can stealth upto an enemy but as soon as we start our mez song with a cast time of 3 seconds we go outta stealth. We can't insta stun and then mez cause that's on the same 1min immunity timer.
After 1.51 please take away our stealth and give us a decent 3rd specline and I think most minstrels would be happy.
I
ImLestat
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- Thread starter
- #87
Big kudos to Coren for acknowledging what other minstrels in this thread will not...
Sorry, I was going to leave this thread alone, but when people do something good I feel they should be encouraged, there is way too much of the opposite around anyway.
Sorry, I was going to leave this thread alone, but when people do something good I feel they should be encouraged, there is way too much of the opposite around anyway.
O
old.job
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- Thread starter
- #88
You are right I apologise, Minstrels have inst-stun not mezz, it's the skalds that have it and I have lost a few fights to them, they just wait till they're low on health ,then mezz you, heal it seems (can they?), and continue the fight, my duel with my Bard and Skald lasted 2mins!!! OK mainly cos of our crap melee, but he beat me in the end, he was a good player, but no amount of skill could help me.
What I'm really saying is give my Bard insta-something pleeeeaaassee!
What I'm really saying is give my Bard insta-something pleeeeaaassee!
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lakih
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- Thread starter
- #89
I think i read it in some post here, that minstrels can move while casting mezz...
I think its from that the "instaMezz" comes from... ppl see minstrels run and cast mezz at the same time = ppl think the mezz is instant becuase you can move while casting it.
Just ignore this post if minstrels cant move while casting mezz
BTW, good post Coren
[Edit] Typo(s)[/edit]
I think its from that the "instaMezz" comes from... ppl see minstrels run and cast mezz at the same time = ppl think the mezz is instant becuase you can move while casting it.
Just ignore this post if minstrels cant move while casting mezz
BTW, good post Coren
[Edit] Typo(s)[/edit]
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Verena
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- #90
I will not ackowledge that we are overpowered and I assume that's also not what Coren ment. Just cause he has killed his share of thanes doesn't mean we will never loose to a thane.
You're talking to the server no1 minstrel who is supposedly on the hate list of 50% of the other realms population. That only tells me 1 thing, that is that Coren must be a very skilled player and that he's a top minstrel.
Does this make us overpowered? IMO not and that's what this thread is all about!