Is the minstrel an overpowered class

[old.Emma]

I here many people saying the minstrel is an overpowered, but after playing one, well 2 now, one 46 the other only 9, i tend to defend my class and argue with them, yes we can stealth and move while we mezz we can take out low con tanks etc etc etc, but dont consider myself to be overpowered, i think of myself as a class that is balanced, my abilities suit my class well.

I`d appreciate constructive comments please, im not here to start a flame war..

Do you think the minstrel class is overpowered, yes or no, why is it overpowered, etc etc etc

 

[Solid]

The Minstrel is one of the more complete and balanced classes in the game.

They are by no means overpowered (although some feel they should not recieve chain armour as a stealther class)

The Skald, likewise is a nice complete class and by no means overpowered.

Its usually other classes gimpedness and incompletedness that calls for some to say the more complete balanced classes are overpowered.

 

[old.Emma]

thank you solid

thats what i say every time. i know the minstrel can stealth then mezz, but we are not exactly the best class at melee thanks to our rogue hp`s, where as a skald does not have stealth but can actually fight rather well to a certain degree. i know for a fact that if i went 1 vs 1 with a same lvl skald, i`d last approx 5 secs. i may be the mezz in first, but as soon as i hit him, i get insta mezz`d and battered. i can do the same to a caster, but nothing is stopping them from quickcasting a root/stun/mezz spell on me.

 

[old.Xanthian]

IMO I would tend to disagree, I think Minstrels are way over powered, this is maybe because im a caster and prime target for Minstrels..but..

Insta Mezz - Hib doesnt have 1
Speed Song + Stealth + Insta DD's - Mixture of 2 Hib Classes in 1

Basically Minstrels are a mixture of Bards, Nightshades and a Small Tank (Champion maybe)
I can hardly say thats fair that we have 3 Classes to do the same as 1 of yours.

And you say they are weak ? 2 Insta DD's, 1 Insta Mezz, 1 Hit im dead.
I can usually take 3 or 4 hits from the average Tank.

Dont think this as a flame, more of a constructive comment

 

[old.Wicoa]

You have to think of this all in context of the other musical types.

Bard's Heal, Rez, Music Regen's, Area Mez Insta, Lower Armour: Healer Base Class

Mini's Music regen's, Has to play flute to mez, higher level armour and stealth.
Stealther Base Class

Skald Insta Mez, Insta Speed, higher level armour, Tanking abilities + Weapon Spec Choice Including Shield.
Tank Base Class

As you can see mythic have placed the musical class in all three character roles you can play in the game except mage. There are various sacrifices that other classes make in order for them to be different from the other. And I think they are all quite well balanced. If you take away the ability for a minstrel to wear chain you have to add something else in its place. If it was the tank base class of Alb they would be running around in plate 34% absorb but they would probably lack some support roles which Skald's do.

My view that the Minstrel is in NO way overpowered.

The person behind a class will make you either want to play that class or rant and scream how powerful they are or yell victory as you take them down cause they fooked something up and you'll think ahaha I play the best class in the game.


Cheers
Wic

 

[old.Revz]

Originally posted by old.Xanthian
Insta Mezz - Hib doesnt have 1

Minstrels don't have an insta mez either.

 

[old.Emma]

Originally posted by old.Xanthian
IMO I would tend to disagree, I think Minstrels are way over powered, this is maybe because im a caster and prime target for Minstrels..but..

Insta Mezz - Hib doesnt have 1
Speed Song + Stealth + Insta DD's - Mixture of 2 Hib Classes in 1

Basically Minstrels are a mixture of Bards, Nightshades and a Small Tank (Champion maybe)
I can hardly say thats fair that we have 3 Classes to do the same as 1 of yours.

And you say they are weak ? 2 Insta DD's, 1 Insta Mezz, 1 Hit im dead.
I can usually take 3 or 4 hits from the average Tank.

Dont think this as a flame, more of a constructive comment

Just incase of a miz up thats all, we have those 3 abilities, but we cant use speed while stealthed, and use`n out dd`s in stealth, takes us out of stealth instantly. if a caster cant take 3-4 hits from an average tank then i have no idea what my armour is made from, a same lvl skald with a 2h hammer will kill me in 3-4 hits, i have better armour and most likely higher hit points than a caster... not flammin just pointing it out

 

[old.Emma]

Originally posted by old.Revz


Minstrels don't have an insta mez either.

I think he means insta stun, can easily been mistaken cos it seems to last forever its 6 seconds btw @ instruments spec 40

 

[old.logun]

one other correction skalds can't train in shield heehe pretty useless point but hey least i posted somthing

 

[old.Emma]

know thy enemy then you can kill them....

casters for me are an easy target, i know most caster classes get some kinda of blade turn, so i tend to dd,dd,stun, hit (break bt) hit again, if there not dead yet, hit em again and dd. once you know what your character is capable of, learn your enemies. i know if i see a great big troll running at me @ mach 5 i turn and run the other way sprint if i have to, if there is back up behind me, i`ll stealth then mezz him while he/she stands there thinking wtf :/ where`d ya go

 

[Solid]

I said chain for minstrels may be a tad too nice cos Skalds only get chain, they only get rogue hp (NOTE same hp table as hunters and thanes = rogue table).

No rightminded skald uses a shield as he cant spec in it, so discount that.

A skalds major benefit is only having 3 lines to spec, 1 being parry, so they can get songs and weapon spec to 40+.
A skalds second major benefit is not having to use panzy flutes and banjos to play their "songs" (insert loud sippy sound).

and a caster saying Minstrels are overpowered cos they kill him easy? holy crap, a class that kills casters easy, NERF NEFR NERF!!!.

Minstrels excel at killing casters. BUT a minstrel could never solo a tank class liek a skald/thane/warrior/zerker/hero/champion/blademaster so dont go screaming they are overpowered.

Every class has their prey and every class is prey to another (dont tell Pure Melee that cos we meant to be Assasin killers )

 

[old.Shivian]

To be honest here folks, if you think the minstrel is an overpowered class, then go play one. Once you reach level 40+ then you'll realise the pain that every minstrel goes through in rvr. There are very few even con classes that we can solo kill....even casters with quick cast and mezz/stun. I don't know how many runemasters I've got the jump on only for them to quick cast root on me, back off then 2-3 spells later I'm dead....and yes that's even with the 6 second stun.

Our melee is terrible, and I am a fiarly high speced melee minstrel. I still only hit for 80-100 per swing.

Sure we get all these funky abilites that look good on paper, but when you put them all together....on 3-4 quickbars for rvr they don't work that well.

WIth see hidden, realm abilities (purge) alought of minstrels have quit on the US servers.....we simply can't kill anything. And I'll be damed if I'll run around the frontier palying speed/power song while other people have the fun.

 

[Kerram Darktyde]

the Stealth for minstrel is just strange, Why would a preformer need Stealth. Why would the Realm of honour have 3 sneakers??

but If stealth was left in then make it so they cannot wear chain while stealthing as that is just a plain insult to all other stealthers... Studded is just ok but chain would be too noisey to stealth in..

They seem to have someone in mythic who likes then prolly on the Dev team as they seem to get things added to them and not taken away.. (mini nerf of de mezz being added but then they get the unmezz too )


2 DD's (ok littleish ones)
AE mezz
mezz
stun
Speed increase
Heal reg
Power reg
Confuse
Charm
De mezz

all based on one line.. i would say kind of powerful spell line..

What is the population % of minstrel's?

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by old.Xanthian
Basically Minstrels are a mixture of Bards, Nightshades and a Small Tank (Champion maybe)
I can hardly say thats fair that we have 3 Classes to do the same as 1 of yours.

I could post something about eldritch being a theurgist / wizard combined but that's not really the issue here. Albion has more classes than the other realms, we don't have 1 class for three by any means.
Minstrels aren't bard/NS/champs in one, we lack the heals of a bard, the initial huge hit of a NS, and the weapon spec / shield spec on a champ.
Minstrels can't really tank - the rogue hps and damage table coming into play there, yes we get chain, but we only get evade 2 and a non-spec small shield for other defense. Skalds get evade 1, chain, parry and small shields as well.

Compaired to a bard we are much tougher fighters, I would expect to be able to beat any bard I meet one on one. Bards make up for that by having more support roles such as a powerful AE mez, heals, and res.
Compaired to a skald we are weak fighters. I never fight skalds unless they're blue or lower, I just stun, mez and get the hell out of there, trying to fight even con skalds is just asking to get yourself killed as minstrel.

Overall I think the music classes are fairly well balanced. I'd maybe remove that snare from the skald, don't really see why a class with speed also needs a snare spell. I think one of the main things people have against minstrels and skalds is that they are very powerful in one-on-one and small group encounters. However in a large fight, the lack of AE and low hps tends to make them a lot less useful - this is where the balancing is.

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Skalds are fighters, minstrels are rogues, which sums it up Skalds may not have overly much HP, but they hurt with 2hand weapons (seriously, does ANYONE know a skald running around fighting with a shield?), DDs, snare and instant mez. Not to mention resist songs and - speed -. Minstrels do bugger all melee damage; they tend to prey upon casters (who can't do much against a stealthing enemy ), just like other rogues. In the end both classes are powerful (still have a clear thought on which class will be nerfed next), but bards certainly aren't bad. AE mez and speed in one class makes for an excellent RvR supporter, and endurance/power songs are godly for PvE

 

[old.Emma]

true every class has there own enemy

there is only one class i concider to be powerful that is the albion cleric, not becaus smite is an uber strong dmg dealer, but because it belongs to the wrong class. that is where character balancing comes in. you see mythic have nerfed smite in a future patch, those have specced smite will still have the ability to deal dmg, just not as much. hopefully meaning new clerics will spec rejuv/enhancements. so they can finally remove smite all togeather. that may or may not be the case.

Yes casters are easy prey for a minstrel, but then minstrels are easy prey for an assassin we have stealth buts it only crap, you cant see us but assassins can see us from a good distance, even more so when realm abilities come into play.

 

[Kerram Darktyde]

I hear the too many icons for one bar but most classes suffer from that.
the bar is just too small

I do not think Minstrels are overpowered just very powerful on paper..

 

[- Pathfinder -]

<edited due to excessive laughter>

 

[old.Wicoa]

Opps Probably made a boobie or two there only played minstrel properly. But my point remains the same they all have unique characteristics which I find pleasing.

I think skalds should have shield spec if they want it being a warrior base class and all.

But my answer is NO still they are not overpowered. For this I point to full smite clerics <winks>. To me they are a sneaky musical class. Now I would be all for taking out chain and giving them all assassin stealth abilities that would be something to see, detect, mez run around a bit poking fun, proceed to kill. Or scenario 2) climb into a keep and mez everyone (if npc guards dont get ya).

Cheers
Wic

 

[Danya]

A lot of people whining about minstrel chain... maybe if they gave us evade 4 or something loosing chain would be ok (loosing 8% absorb would seriously weaken the class).
I don't find assassins to be that much of an issue, having instastun helps.

As noted though caster killing is where minstrels excel, also archers if we catch them destealthed. Their low hps mean we can hit them for enough damage to kill them before stun breaks, on a tank you tend to get a beating as soon as the stun wears off.

 

[old.Emma]

chain armour is what keeps us alive, if they removed chain armour from the minstrel then we would need some form of high dmg output ability. we have 2 dd`s so what, how does that compair to a critical shot from a bow or even normal shots for that matter, or a 3 hit critical combo from an assassin, well lets see on a yellow caster both my dd`s will do on average about 300dmg compaired to (im using the sb`s here cos i know it) 2h weilding shadowblade who hits for 1000+ dmg with perferate artery and thats just the first of 3 hits. so to replace chain we would need a high dmg ability either duel wield, 2h weapons or something. minstrels are poor enough in combat as it is, without chain we`d be sitting ducks. considering one of the popular specs is 44 instruments, 29 slash/thrust and 39 stealth, you can see we have poor melee dmg with the low weapon spec.

my spec is currently

44 instruments
38 thrust
1 stealth,

mainly because i`m still trying to decide if its worth speccing stealth because of the realm abilities.

but i may end up with

39 thrust
29 stealth which is enough to sneak up on some poor caster ;P

 

[Danya]

Personally I'm going for the classic 44 ins, 39 thrust, 29 stealth template. It's a proven template, 39 stealth sacrafices too much melee damage imo, especially post-1.50. Also the 39 thrust style is pretty nice.

On the damage thing, minstrel has less damage output than any other class in Albion. That is why we get stealth.

 

[Solid]

you are proberly right on chian, it just me being ant alb again I etract my comment about Chain, as it dont make a diff gaints their main killers (ie skalds )

Minstrels are Balanced
Skalds are balanced

Mythic keep your filthy mitts off these wonderful classes.

Right, time to roll me a skald

 

[ImLestat]

As a level 50 thane I can tell you that in 1 on 1 I have ABSOLUTELY ZERO CHANCE of taking down a level 50 minstrel that knows what he is doing, or isn't caught completely off guard. (Fat chance of either of that happening right, a level 50 noob, or the the thane sneaking up on a stealther, yeah right....) If the minstrel WASN'T overpowered then at least the tanking classes would at least have a shot of taking down a minstrel, but that's a big no-no. Let me tell you how a fight usually happens against a minstrel: dd, dd, instamez, wait for dd timers to go up, dd, dd, instastun, hit, hit, hit, dead thane. Now, in that time I MAY get off one or max two of my instabolt of lightning, one pbaoe, and one to three hits, usually resulting in me dead and the minstrel with having at least 75% hits left. And the minstrels aren't overpowered? Bah...

But I'll just crawl over into a corner and start muttering my mantra: Mythic named this game Dark age of CAMELOT, not Dark age of JORDHEIM, or TIR NA NOG...

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Originally posted by Dannyn


I could post something about eldritch being a theurgist / wizard combined but that's not really the issue here. Albion has more classes than the other realms, we don't have 1 class for three by any means.

/smacks Dannyn with his staff

Have at thee! I hope you were just joking...

 

[klavrynd]

Minstrels excel at killing casters. BUT a minstrel could never solo a tank class liek a skald/thane/warrior/zerker/hero/champion/blademaster so dont go screaming they are overpowered.

That is IF they resist the stun. the ONLY time i've killed a minstrel (as a zerk, which should do the most damage when up close) was when i resisted stun. On all the other 1vs1 encoutners with minstrels it's sit down so you can /release faster.
Add to that the new armor tables only giving hunters an advantage on albion chain , crush (which is probably the most used damagetype for mid tanks) has a penalty and slash is neutral.


I guess the thing that annoys me the most is that minstrels break , as only class (well maybe cleric as well), the suck in pve = rule in rvr unwritten rule.

All rogues have a hell of a time grouping (all pure assasin classes, archer classes a bit less), except the minstrel which combines ultra groupfriendlyness (speed/mana song, some crowdcontrol) with the ability to solo in rvr and take out all lower cons and most even cons pretty easy.

either take chain/stealth/stun or put groupfriendly and solo stuff in 2 different lines

 

[old.Emma]

Originally posted by old.ImLestat
As a level 50 thane I can tell you that in 1 on 1 I have ABSOLUTELY ZERO CHANCE of taking down a level 50 minstrel that knows what he is doing, or isn't caught completely off guard. (Fat chance of either of that happening right, a level 50 noob, or the the thane sneaking up on a stealther, yeah right....) If the minstrel WASN'T overpowered then at least the tanking classes would at least have a shot of taking down a minstrel, but that's a big no-no. Let me tell you how a fight usually happens against a minstrel: dd, dd, instamez, wait for dd timers to go up, dd, dd, instastun, hit, hit, hit, dead thane. Now, in that time I MAY get off one or max two of my instabolt of lightning, one pbaoe, and one to three hits, usually resulting in me dead and the minstrel with having at least 75% hits left. And the minstrels aren't overpowered? Bah...

But I'll just crawl over into a corner and start muttering my mantra: Mythic named this game Dark age of CAMELOT, not Dark age of JORDHEIM, or TIR NA NOG...

May i remind you, when going to RvR remember to put your armour on.

Let me tell you how a fight usually happens against a minstrel: dd, dd, instamez, wait for dd timers to go up, dd, dd, instastun, hit, hit, hit, dead thane

that is impossible.. dd, dd yes, we have no insta mezz, mezz is on a 3s cast timer. dd`s timers are 15 seconds long, sure you were`nt afk at the time, i`ve yet to even solo a low yellow thane and live. minstrel`s cannont solo tanks easily.

1. you have twice the hit points as us
2. you do more dmg than us, by one hell of a lot
3. you have your insta cast spells

if a minstrel can solo a thane, then why cant we solo a skald, they have less hp and dont hit as hard.

 

[old.chesnor]

I don't really think Minstrels are overpowered. The comparison of Skald/Mistrel/Bard is a poor one imho, sure they are all musical classes but Minstrels are rogues, Skalds are tanks, and Bards are healers. You cannot really compare the 3 classes without taking that into account.

The reason Minstrels are perceived to be overpowered is because they have stealth. All stealthers have the massive advantage over non-stealthers that they can be choosy about who and when they attack.

Also, because lots of US whiners, erm I mean players, have stopped playing Minstrels means nothing. The reason Minstrels were so popular was because prior to See Hidden they were almost untouchable. Most of the server population had no chance to kill a Minstrel, they could stealth up and pick targets at will. Now any group with an assassin will cancel Mintrels out. But rather than accept their role has changed, they have re-rolled Infiltrators.

Won't be long before Infis get nerfed imho.

 

[klavrynd]

you are hit by [minstrel] for 1xx dmg
you are hit by [minstrel] for 1xx dmg
- Huh, where the fuck did that came from?
*tweedletweedletweedledeeeee
-There he is the fucker
you run towards the minstrel , halfway there the 3s casting time is done and :
You are mesmerised and cant do shit except stand there like a buffoon.
-Haha, if he hits me now ill bang his ass
you are hit by [minstrel] for 1xx dmg
you are hit by [minstrel] for 1xx dmg
-Booyaka!
*zap
You are stunned and cant do even less
[minstrel] attacks you with his toothpick and hits you for 1xx dmg over and over again until all that's left is a bloody pulp

 

[Danya]

I find skalds worse than thanes 1 vs 1, they have better instas and an insta mez; it's the mez that makes them tough. Thanes have their hefty damage add, but they can't mez you.
I don't think thanes have double minstrel HP, that'd mean having around 1800 hp unbuffed which even pure tanks don't have.
The other thing is of course the stun, which buys you 3 hits which can't be blocked, parried or evaded. Still once that wears off any thane worth his salt is going to just hit the slam key. Slam = dead minstrel.