Is damage too high?

[Legean]

I'm talking Damage across the board, all classes and careers.

Seems to me that people die far too fast in this game. I'm sure one of Mythics aims was to have a long time to kill to allow fights to be long and diverse. As it stands, with all the disables, silences, heal debuffs, knockbacks and interupts healers basically cant heal. A lot of these abilities are on the heavy tanks, IB and BO, and they take a huge amount of effort to kill. The SH/SW can heal debuff and silence a healer killing them before the silence wears off.

Think there needs to be a decrease in damage across the board, rather than an increase in healing, to allow for the diverse fights the game can provide. I know theres other issues like finishing a fight before being zerged but thats more of a zone size issue.

 

[ramathorn]

it is massively too high. There is no need for assist in most cases, any dps class can kill a healer relatively quickly solo.

had a small 4 v 5 fight yesterday, no tank in group. witch hunter popped on me, silenced me out of stealth and killed me before the silence finished. i usually enjoy playing support classes but its very hard to enjoy this some times.

 

[Ormorof]

hehe a few months ago i seem to remember people complaining fights took too long

 

[Lembit]

hehe a few months ago i seem to remember people complaining fights took too long

Yup. Guess people always need something to complain about.

 

[Libh]

hehe a few months ago i seem to remember people complaining fights took too long

that was before they got to t4.

 

[Kami]

I've been saying since the first week in T4 rvr that they need to half DPS on all classes and reduce healing by about 35% to make things more balanced. Some classes would need to be tweaked too obviously, especially those with respectable heal/DPS combos.

 

[GrivneKelmorian]

it is massively too high. There is no need for assist in most cases, any dps class can kill a healer relatively quickly solo.

had a small 4 v 5 fight yesterday, no tank in group. witch hunter popped on me, silenced me out of stealth and killed me before the silence finished. i usually enjoy playing support classes but its very hard to enjoy this some times.

i do agree with the "its hard to enjoy this game some times".

but the whole damage is too high is very situational.

as a sorc, i have a really hard time killing things that is getting healed. i cant output the burst dps needed to take down a target from 50% to dead, in the time it takes to cast two heals. not counting support by hots here.

then of course add the resists junkies who gets doombolted and critted for 300 dmg with 100% dark magic and spec in agony line.

 

[Lembit]

I've been saying since the first week in T4 rvr that they need to half DPS on all classes and reduce healing by about 35% to make things more balanced. Some classes would need to be tweaked too obviously, especially those with respectable heal/DPS combos.

You cant just go out and throw % in the air like that. You are basicly saying you want a dmg decrease and a healing increase wich would prolly increase the duration of a fg vs fg fights to 10 minutes,, oh what fun.

I play a shaman, and yes I do get killed alot. But I have never felt the dmg output on me was to high for the classes attacking me, well apart from the prenerf playing with fire, that was horrible for a healer dishing out loads of hots.

 

[Tallen]

As regards damage, I like it the way it is tbh. If players lived much longer it would make the game insufferably boring.

Unfortunately you are not just talking about damage, you are also talking about suirvivability, and specifically survivability as a healer.

As a healer your tanks and dps should be protecting you, if they aren't then you will die. If they are, you should be fine. Unfortunately, if were talking WE's, then you are pretty much fucked as they are not well implemented and there is little chance of surviving against one.

Regarding disable, sucks ass yes, but healers complaining about it is short sighted. In it's current FUBAR state, it is disable which is one way to save healers from assassins IF you are being protected the way you should be. If not, then, yes, again you will die and sometimes even protection won't matter.

 

[Aqe]

Only time the dmg feels to high is when the group you are with are playing badly and letting the enemy do the damage. If your group know what they are doing then you have silence/disrupt/etc on ranged dps and healers, snares/roots on melee, Heal debuffs on main target.

 

[Legean]

As regards damage, I like it the way it is tbh. If players lived much longer it would make the game insufferably boring.

I disagree that longer fights would be boring. In Camelot the longer fights were always the most fun. Running out of your keep and getting constantly rolled or even constantly rolling everyone became boring as you pretty much did the same thing over and over again. Longer fights allow the fight to mature, more complex tactics to be used ect.

 

[Lembit]

I disagree that longer fights would be boring. In Camelot the longer fights were always the most fun.QUOTE]

Yes, but the fights were not long cause of poor damage, You still killed/got killed if things went according to your/the enemies plan. Same as this game, fights can be long or short, depending on oponents/numbers/classes etc etc.

 

[Tallen]

I disagree that longer fights would be boring. In Camelot the longer fights were always the most fun. Running out of your keep and getting constantly rolled or even constantly rolling everyone became boring as you pretty much did the same thing over and over again. Longer fights allow the fight to mature, more complex tactics to be used ect.

Sorry, but again I disagree with everything you say.

Fights last long enough if players know how to play their classes and play as a group/warband, the problem is not many bother and over-extend, dps as a healer or simply sit back and leach.

I have seen several set groups on Hirn roll 10-15 man WB's easily without losing a single player simply because they are playing together and are co-ordinating their efforts. Take this away, dumb down the DPS and they would probably get beaten as eventually the zerg will grind them down simply by having more players and giving those players longer to figure out whats going on or giving more time for another 100 zerglings to roll over the horizon or the same munchkins to respawn and waddle back.

Reducing the overall DPS can drastically reduce the rewards for surprise, skill and group organisation and imo thats not a good thing in a game like this.

 

[Lollie]

i dont know about across the board but certain classes/abilites need toned down. Imagine how long it would take to kill a black orc with a dmg decrease.

 

[Legean]

I never said it had to be a drastic decrease in DPS but a noticabe one. Right now chosen and BOs seem to be able to walk in and beat the casters down with relative ease whilst taking a huge effort to kill or counter. I'm sure this probably happens with IBs and KotBS too for dest. WEs can run in and slice for 1k+ crits plus their kisses and auto attacks. SHs can now also pump out extremely large amounts of damage. Infact the only classes that arn't of major concern are the ones that have just had a major nerf, the BW and Sorc.

In your example of fgs taking greater than their number, this would still happen. Element of suprise would give you 3 or so kills before the oppanants can react it just means people have to assist and CC properly, where the more complex tactics come into play.

I think the suvivability of the tanks needs to be looked at too.

 

[Billie thekid]

how many horde class can kill shaman.even for IB this hard to kill shaman solo.witch hunter can
how many dest class can kill horde healer easly.think about that...many classes

 

[Nate]

can anyone make sense of that? ;o

 

[Svartmetall]

can anyone make sense of that? ;o

Let me drop an ounce of PCP into a pint of vodka & Pepsi Max, then down it in one while having my head trampled on by a sex-crazed wildebeeste and listening to the first 5 Pink Floyd albums simultaneously.

It might make sense then.

 

[Loneliness]

how many horde class can kill shaman.even for IB this hard to kill shaman solo.witch hunter can
how many dest class can kill horde healer easly.think about that...many classes

Bless, you've been playing wow for alongtime i feel.

 

[Ormorof]

how many horde class can kill shaman.even for IB this hard to kill shaman solo.witch hunter can
how many dest class can kill horde healer easly.think about that...many classes

not really sure tbh it depends on both the healer and the destro, theres so many neat tricks healers have up their sleeves they all get the morale insta heal, runies/zealots have their own insta heals, plus damage abs shields, detaunt, etc etc and shamans (ive never played AM so wont comment on them but i assume they have a similar trick) have their Gork/Mork mechanic and the usual blend of big heals, small heals, hots, dots that heal defensive etc

the only way to kill healers seems to be putting in alot of damage very quickly otherwise they pull another trick out of the bag and your back where you started

so sometimes you die quickly (if the enemy are smart) and sometime you dont, its all good

 

[Nate]

Nerf you and your animal linguistic skills Ormorof!

 

[Grotnob]

how many horde class can kill shaman.even for IB this hard to kill shaman solo.witch hunter can
how many dest class can kill horde healer easly.think about that...many classes

IB's a tank. In terms of non-specific MMO archetype design, tank archetypes are supposed to be low damage output, high damage soaking classes. This is reflected in WAR, generally.

Shaman's a healer, primarily. In a situation where a Shaman (or Archmage, or Runepriest, or Zealot, or Warrior Priest or DoK) has nothing else to worry about except their own survival, they should be able to soak the supposedly low damage output of a tank class. That's not to say they should be able to kill the tank, (although WPs and DoKs can accomplish this,) but it shouldn't be too surprising that healers manage to get away from tanks without too much hassle. In fact, the longer the fight goes on, in my experience, the more likely the healer is to win the engagement either through people adding on the fight to rescue the healer, or the healer nibbling away at the tank over the course of the fight. Depending on the tank you're fighting, gear, the spec choices and pure skill of the combatants, this may take a long time, or a very long time.

By and large, and with one or two notable exceptions currently, tank archetypes are not designed to be a killing class without very specific spec line choices, and carefully chosen gear. Even then, they're not as efficient at killing as the DPS classes.

They're there to soak, debuff, disrupt, harass and generally get in the way.

Not entirely sure where I'm going with this. Perhaps it will suffice to say that Order healers can be just as tough to kill as Destruction healers. Also bear in mind that Destruction right from the outset had to learn to adapt to and counter Bright Wizards and their (then) busted DoT mechanics. Most of us have elemental and corp resists up the yin-yang. I believe (although I could be wrong, as I don't play a pure healer on Order) that the majority of a healer's damage is one or other of these damage types. If you're really fed up with getting killed quickly as an Order healer, or any other archetype for that matter, sacrifice a stat point or ten in favour of resists. They can make all the difference.

 

[Bullitt]

I'll admit to not reading the entire thread, however my observation is not that there is too much/too little healing/dps. But that people simply aren't working together.

People don't attack the same target 9 times out of 10 and the tanks will often leave the healers. I don't see the problem in the game design but more in the way of the players.

I'll also confess to being one of these players on occasion as it's hard to distinguish a overall goal or objective from the chaos. I say give it a few months and we'll see some solid play styles emerging.