ID Cards

[Will]

Give your opinion to the government on national ID cards. Apparently 2 out of 3 respondants have been strongly in favour, hardly a representative chunk of the voting roll.

So get to it. And I guess you could give your opinions below too.

 

[Sir Frizz]

It's a waste of time, money and man-power. We already have other 'official' forms of ID.

 

[old.D0LLySh33p]

What he said.

 

[Will]

Funny, thats what I told the goverenment too.

 

[Ash!]

Nope. Waste of time and money as above. Just gives Blair more powers to the most intrusive goverment Britain has ever had.

 

[Will]

You are all filling out the little form, aren't you ?

 

[TedTheDog]

I wrote my own form (I didnt use the stuff they provide) and I also tried to fax it to my more than useless bloody MP, who has turned her fax machine off for some reason.

ID Cards, just say no.

 

[ECA]

Not only that I faxed it to my MP.

If I get a reply I'll post it :-]

 

[xane]

I used to be a supporter of stand.org, but they have gone rabidly off the hook, just like many other single-issue groups.

I don't really support ID Cards per se, but some of their arguments are a bit misleading, for example:

You Say It's Not Compulsory — But Everyone Will Have To Have One? Paragraph 2.12 ... we believe that central government would find it very difficult not to lay pressure onto public services it controls, such as the NHS and the Inland Revenue, to make use of the card.

Yet the consultation document notes in the next paragraph:

2.13 The required use of a card would not preclude other ways of accessing services in an emergency for example when a card had been lost or stolen. No person would be denied
access to a service in these circumstances.

Now undoubtedly the NHS is going to be considered "an emergency" in a lot of cases, so they are unfairly whipping up people's fears that "no ID = no medical treatment". As for the IR I don't think there are many cases of ID theft to pay someone else's tax for them, besides they use NI numbers anyhow.

Another example is that they argue against the effectiveness of an ID Card to combat illegal immigrants find work in the country, but the main thrust of the government argument is also to avoid the same workers gaining benefits and services freely, and reducing the concept that Britain is a "free ride", something the argument does not address, and I suspect is the main concern for many over illegal immigrants.

 

[bigfoot]

I'm in favour of id cards, but then i'm not a loony liberal like ted .

 

[Will]

Originally posted by bigfoot
I'm in favour of id cards, but then i'm not a loony liberal like ted .

Yeah, but Ted has us all by our GAME cards anyway.

 

[Steiny]

Doubts

Much as it distresses me to disagree with TedTheDog ever, and for any reason, I'm afraid I'm on the other side of this argument. Centralised databases of user ID will give the government very little extra ablity to persecute people (I mean, at the moment only the Police and Inland Revenue can really make your life miserable through corruption).

However, there is plenty which will be forefitted if we just say "ID is Evil". Primarily, what we'll lose is the ablity to datamine in order to deliver services better. For example, datamining might spot that across the country, certain types of people use certain sets of services. Big ID databases would let the govt use this, and help them to 'join them up', all with the aim of making the punter's life easier, and actually being able to create better services that could improve people's lives. Think of the way that Amazon can make useful suggestions about things you might enjoy, but scaled up to the whole of the government services.

At the moment, this kind of connecting-the-dots between data and services can't be done because the govt doesn't have all the info about you joined up together. Instead, loads of data exists about you which is spread all over the place, and is probably often inconsistent.

At the moment we don't have ID cards, but people can still, and are still being be persecuted by bad-apple bits of government. Introducing ID cards might actually help corruption be spotted ("Why has this man been arrested so many times but never charged?") by opening data up which at the moment is controlled by the people who might most want to abuse it and you.

The really important thing is that without ID cards (and more important, central databases) there are services that you could probably benefit from, but you won't because the govt won't know that you could use them. And Stand is about to help us throw out the baby with the bathwater because they think that our government is ludicrously corrupt, when it is in fact in about the top 1% least corrupt governments in the history of the world.

Steiny

 

[Embattle]

If it was done right then I would agree but it wouldn't so I don't agree with wasting the money.

 

[RandomIce]

ID Cards is neither a good or a bad idea.

Its a bad idea if its a compulsary extra id.

Its a good id if it replaces your passport and driving license etc to create a combinded id issued to any1 who has a passport, driving lisence, birth certificate ( *Ice looks at certain ppl* ) and isnt made compulsary to carry.

 

[mank!]

I'm against it for the same reasons stated by frizz, dolly and will.

 

[FatBusinessman]

One of the main problems I can see is that, if there is a centralised repository of personal data, it would be worth millions to unscrupulous companies. It would only take one corrupt government employee or one person to hack into the system and the entire UK's personal data is sold to the highest bidder.

 

[Testin da Cable]

here in holland, since the 1st of january, you *have* to carry "proper" ID. iow, a passport, IDcard or a drivers license. failure to comply means [iirc] an 80 euro fine [call it 60 pound] big _iirc_ though.

what I find shit is that the "powers" make you pay to comply with the identification law. I have nothing against the cards themselves, if used properly. I'd like to see something about the size of a creditcard though, not the huge cards they use now.

 

[Summo]

Introduce the ID card and make it compulsory. I'm a believer in the idea that people with nothing to hide don't hide anything.

 

[Testin da Cable]

I want a chip placed in everyone's head that automagically debits your account with a fine every time you speed in your car!!1

 

[xane]

Originally posted by Testin da Cable
I want a chip placed in everyone's head that automagically debits your account with a fine every time you speed in your car!!1

... and auto destructs if you don't have an overdraft.

 

[ECA]

Originally posted by Summo
Introduce the ID card and make it compulsory. I'm a believer in the idea that people with nothing to hide don't hide anything.

So you wouldnt object to a copper thinking you had a dodgy look about you and searching your house 365 days a year in the middle of the night, just to make sure you wernt a crook, and by the way he fancies your gf?

 

[Summo]

I think that's a considerable step to take from having ID cards.

 

[PR.]

- Vote for ID Cards

Originally posted by Summo
Introduce the ID card and make it compulsory. I'm a believer in the idea that people with nothing to hide don't hide anything.

I vote for Summo.

I want ID Cards. I want them compulsory. I want them to be associated with a Retina Scan/Finger Prints/DNA/Facial Photo/Driving License/Social Security details/Criminal record.

Then when some cunt is caught in CCTV doing something they press a button and BAM "Its Mr Cunt from some shit council estate" no messing around with 60 police officers knocking on doors and stoping cars trying to squeeze details of people whos motto is "I'm no grass".

Then we can simplify so many different areas the fact you can walk into a building swipe your eye and immediately present them with all the data they need.

Personally its made me laugh how many people here have said "Oh fucking police on a power trip they stopped me cos I looked dodgy and found my <insert illegal drug here> stash, fucking cunts blah blah blah" Here is a revalation; they were right. You were dodgy and you were breaking the law

The quicker this all gets introduced the better

 

[Testin da Cable]

Re: - Vote for ID Cards

Originally posted by PR.

I want ID Cards. I want them compulsory. I want them to be associated with a Retina Scan/Finger Prints/DNA/Facial Photo/Driving License/Social Security details/Criminal record.

Then when some cunt is caught in CCTV doing something they press a button and BAM "Its Mr Cunt from some shit council estate"

yay! I want this too. damn you human rights!!1

 

[RandomIce]

I think some ppl these days arnt exactly human so do they even count under human rights?

 

[Testin da Cable]

I believe I said that too once apon a time. you want to be the one who draws the line?

 

[RandomIce]

Survivors declare who is insane, yet in an insane world only the sane survive....

So no in otherwords in case i cause a paradox.

 

[Testin da Cable]

tripping over a paradox may cause you to fall into an enigma

 

[Summo]

Originally posted by Testin da Cable
I believe I said that too once apon a time. you want to be the one who draws the line?

Yes! This side of the Rhine!

 

[Testin da Cable]

anyone on the wrong side of the channel is either a german...or an american