how to prevent whines / creating one here

[Red HATred]

Since the number of active people in a realm is decreasing and dependant upon where ppl log in, the game is starting to lack one certain thing more and more. That would be steady team/realm players

You can't blame anyone for anything, the community is one huge complex pile of shit. (lose from the friendly (older) ppl that stick to their first made choise and honesty, those that play the game)

Most action is to be found in Midgard... all go Midgard.... most action is in alb.. all go Alb.. Then you have the minority that sticks to their realm and does what they like. This is natural, and not all will be on one spot when it's needed. (if you want to blame someone for this tendency, Blame Goa and Mythic with their "shit for brains" programmers)

To Solve these problems: (population decrease >> rvr results)

All it requires is just a whole lot of team building...
just a little change of mentality.. instead of "i will do what i like/need to have my fun" it SHOULD (not saying it MUST) be "i will have fun and will try to make sure others have this as well, just beeing there, helping them. If i'm on a spot, i will attend the others on that same spot, i will search for them, i will join them."

UNITY:
I know what a guild means, a lot off ppl won't leave theirs . THere is no need for that really. Just a more open policy should be held. Hostilities and divercity should be removed from once thoughts. What should remain is building for a general purpose. There is no need to draft ppl from one guild to another. There is no need for ppl to roam unguilded. The only reason why this happens is just because some ppl think they can do better then others but when it comes to the point of proving stuff, they get confronted with the same dillemas as others have. It is impossible to function like they think they can. The only way to make it work it to look at the whole picture, look at all and everybody.
DAOC is not about a full group, not about a solo person, not about 20 ppl. (as proven with the million attempts over the past years). To me, and correct me if i would be wrong, it is about every fecking person that clicks "albion" on the logg in screen. It is about those ppl logging into the same universe as you deceided to log in. It is about all of us.

At this moment, one realm, be it mid, hib, alb, is totally scattered. Just a big spot with little drops of water, instead of one HUGE wave. Add the number of multiple-realm-swapping people to the action part and you have your semi effective zergs.

so to conclude, for those that remain on this server in their native realm, maybee it is time to forget what we personally want and work on something we all want. Could you find pleasure in sticking to something, could you find pleasure in standing ground, to stick to your choises?

We all want to have fun, we all want realm skills, we all want ML skills, we all want Artifacts, we all want to win.

Most whines will never be solved. Since some ppl claim they have the right to have their personally created version of this game. (whatever that may be) Some see this game as a dueling fest, others see it as a zerging fest. This proves that we are dealing with lower intelligent species. Since no one ever thinks, what does this Game need to Function....all it needs is ppl that play pve for their realms benefit and crash into rvr as soon as there is need for their skills.....

how to prevent whines????
here is a suggestion:

relic-whines:
Stop posting IN-GAME EVENT crap on these forums.
IN-Game alternatives have been created to be used.
IN-Game shedules can be made for events. THis will prevent the eagre idiots of planning eg: rvr events while other realms have pve events.

Don't come whining about the fact that it can't be done, IT CAN BE DONE.
You want to reach a bigger audience for your personal event... tell ppl about the ways of posting msg's and events... show them how.

Add-whines:
just make sure moderators block those lame pricks and bann them from a forum as soon as they use the line: DON't ADD



----------------
I haven't been active last couple of months, just hopped in now and then to pay house rent, roam a quick tour in rvr, then get out again. Personally i'm looking forward to the next expansion of this game. I just hope that this expansion will make realms and ppl a bit more cooperative again, not just self centered, but team players.

Throughout the past years, while roleplaying and looking, i have realized one thing, something i did know already, but finally got confirmation off. Namely the fact that people are nothing more then self centered, personal satisfaction seeking mammals.
The biggest proof experiments like DAOC and the like. To see how communities function, how they are maintained, how they react to certain changes. Did anyone ever bother to read between the lines?
The only thing you will see is... ppl will defend their good feelings, not something or someone else.

i'll return to active status ( as in primairy hobby)... once DR is launched...
I just hope that it will give the community a fresh, decent boost. I just hope that UNITY as it is used, will stand for what it means. What i'll do from my part? Give the newly given contence a serious test. See if there is any form of decent zerg around....help ppl if needed. See if i can make ppl talk again. When the call for help is sounded in my fronteer, even if i would be solo, i will go there, i will defend it... i can always return to my former plans...it just keeps the spirit of the game alife

Don't know how others will act, i presume most just don't care. Ok, i can live with that...can you?


cya in a week or so....

 

[Demon2k3]

great post, many good advices. rep for you. and sticky this aswell.

 

[Chilly]

iron tart

 

[Straef]

Why prevent whines? Whining is nice.

 

[elbeek]

WB farty pants

In amongst the diatribe are some very valid points too. Why use 10 words when 100 will do?

No doubt his royal stupidness (aka Raven) will add on this post, oh wait a minute there goes another flying pig!

 

[mmmpie]

Bumpz0r for one of the few post´s worthy reading!

Its nicely said,and alot of the truth in it...but old dogs are harder to teach tricks than puppys,in this case im thinking of some players attitude,about switching to a new pwn guild every month/week......it only f3ck up the realm/guilds,in the looong run!

Good post Iron :worthy:
/Rep Inc Meeeep Meeeeeeep

 

[Vodkafairy]

elbeek whining about adds, omg! next thing you'll whine ailinne bears adding on you when killing a greycon.

sorry, coudlnt resist, ill fo from this section now (/surrender flim)

 

[Drav]

Hostilities and divercity should be removed from once thoughts.

I presume you mean diversity, well whats wrong with diversity? Surely having diversity in a realm is a good thing, thing is mythic doesnt encourage divercity it encourages cookie cutter classes with fotm specs so everyone basically creates their chars from VN spec posts rather than just experimenting and learning somethin new possibly more effective.....Those that do are shunned from groups and sit and pray for 4 years till mythic gives them something which will attract groups....e.g. Armsmen/women.

Thus it creates hostility, arms start to hate group leaders for generally being cookie cutter and group leaders couldnt give a rats anus about arms cos there not on their 'OooOoOOh Ubah overpowered' list.

IMHO more divercity is needed not less.

Namely the fact that people are nothing more then self centered, personal satisfaction seeking mammals.

To quote Bill Hicks:-

"People suck, and that's my contention. I can prove it on a scratch of paper with a pen. Give me a fuckin' Etch-a-sketch, I'll do it in three minutes. The proof, the fact, the factorum. I'll show my work, case closed. I'm tired of this back-slapping 'aren't humanity neat?' bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, OK? That's all we are."

Now welcome to my world :/

 

[Bracken]

DAOC is not about a full group, not about a solo person, not about 20 ppl. (as proven with the million attempts over the past years). To me, and correct me if i would be wrong, it is about every fecking person that clicks "albion" on the logg in screen. It is about those ppl logging into the same universe as you deceided to log in. It is about all of us.....

DAOC is about all of those things - that's what makes it the game it is. People are free to choose to play the game whichever way they wish - paying their monthly subs entitles them to this.What people don't have the right to do is to try and impose their own personal preference on others.

Having said that, it does get very frustrating being amongst the same people who seem to have to defend the relics time and time again. I fully understand people wanting to complete their mls, just like I understand people who prefer fg rvr, but it would be nice to think that once in a while when we are getting raided by the other realms for people to think of the bigger picture. If they choose to stay in their ml raid when the frontier is being hit then the chances are we will loose the relics. What that means is that when those people do come out to rvr they are going to find it that bit harder, because they will be facing enemies hitting them 10 to 20% harder while doing less damage themselves. This can make their own rvr experience (when they choose to do it) less enjoyable. There comes a point when those of us who regularly put in the effort to try and hang on to what we've got think "What's the point, no one else gives a f*ck". So while I wouldn't tell people to drop what they are doing and come running at the first sign of trouble, what I would ask them to do is to think of the bigger picture. Often the 50 or 60 people in a pve bg would double our numbers if they came and helped out...heck if even 4fg of them came it could well be enough. And by doing so they'd ensure that when they did want to rvr themselves they would find it more enjoyable.

A good point you also made is about organising big events - advertising it on here is a guaranteed way to cause problems. Having said that, with so many people having characters on different realms it's not guaranteed that using in-game methods or the various internal boards that the different alliances have would solve this, though it might help. There will always be some who take advantage, but if we can make it harder for them then that has to be a good thing.

 

[Deepflame]

I've noticed a change in the DAoC community in the past few years. Way back people used to invite random people, there was some selection going on based on level, but it was lenient. I could hang around the pad in Castle Sauvage and some group porting to Emain would invite my cleric.

Then as the population started declining and with TOA and NF released expanding the world people became more thin spread over the world. Also, TOA caused a distrust of people due to camping artifacts/scrolls/whatever. More and more people moved from the "We're a realm" to the "We're a guild" to even "We're a group" or "I'm alone", causing stuff about adding coming up.

Nowadays, when you approach someone, you often get some kind of "Mine! No touchie!" behaviour to the camp they were at. People get nervous if someone they don't know comes over, they automatically assume you're coming to steal their camp, mobs, artifact, realmpoints, solo fight, etc. Even if you just happened to walk by and just wanted to say hi.

Point in case, I was running with my minstrel through various zones in TOA looking for some random fun to be had. I do this regularly since I have unending breath water doesn't slow me down. I ran into some guy farming scarabs in Stygia. I immediatly got told to leave as it was his camp. Later, I met some guy camping GoLM. When I got near he immediatly ran to the spot the mob pops and started looking at me there. When I /wave'd I got a /wave back and after a minute or so, after I told him I wasn't after GoLM he started responding more friendly.

I've also ran around with my minstrel through New Frontiers, large zone that. Having speed and gateway lets me get around quickly. Ofcourse I will run into people fighting in odd places. Most of the times they ignore me, but I can see from their reaction when they spot me they immediatly suspect me from adding. Even if I just run past. Sometimes just standing there gets me a /rude, even if I do nothing. <shrug>

As I see it the community is slowly collapsing into elitism and losing it's friendlyness. If you are looking for a friendly response you often have to look for your own guild. And even in there people can get angry with eachother for adding/not adding/whatever. Which in turn makes guilds form "mini-groups". Then there is the alliance police and the alliance offenders who try their hardest to battle eachother over alliance by enforcing or breaking as many rules as they can, often attacking people who are just trying to have a friendly chat.

I see the "You pay for your subscription, you decide how you have fun." thing come up. Well, you pay taxes but you don't get to rob the bank either do you? Some common sense and some courtesy go a long way and I think that is what Red HATred meant with his post. I agree people should not dictate how one should play, after all, they aren't paying you to play. However, I disagree people should be assholes about it.

DAoC allows people to play in all kinds of ways, zergs, guilds, groups and solo. All these ways are fine, they all add to the game. It's fun to be out with a zerg taking a relic, it's fun to be out with your guild having a good time, it's fun to be out with a group doing something nigh impossible, and it's fun to have a good one on one fight. Currently however, most people sit either in the "Pro-Zerg", "Pro-Group" and "Pro-Solo" group and they tend to hate everyone outside their group.

The big-picture problem with TOA for RvR is not the time it takes, but the fact that you have to take a large portion of the population out of RvR to do a ML raid. And this never ends, because each character needs to be MLed again. It's a constant drain on the RvR population. Back in the days you didn't have this problem. People were either in Avalon City OR in Emain, so to speak. Now, people are everywhere.

It might be a good idea to start running regular RvR events, which don't matter if they are publically announced. That way you atleast get some defenders in the keep. For example, a random keep take every other day, with every first sunday of the month a relic raid attempt.

*edit*
Whoops, I think I typed a little too much there.

 

[Sparx]

totally agree, i know me personally i almost always drop what i am doing if someone in /as shouts blah blah keep under attack. And i could name some from my /as that does the same. Yes not everyone does it, but you will never change ppl once they have this idea of l33t in their heads.

Shame really

 

[fl3a]

lots of patriotic stuff

albs have teh best rvz0r peopl!!

 

[Kinetix]

Well i think Deepflame about said it all. My opinion is resuming very shortly:

1- Toa screwed the game since it takes so many ppl to do a ML. And ppl got greedy with camping artis and places

2- The so called "L33t" ppl who are a bunch of idiots who pbbly dont have a social life ( excuse me if the hood fits you )

3- I understand the fact that ppl want to solo but i cant understand how solo ppl after getting zerged/road killed over and over still want to maintain solo just cause they get 60mins 1 kill with 500-1000rps.


I´ve played several MMRPGs ( DAOC,WoW,MO,EQ2,GW) and the more the game is PvP/RvR guided the more idiotic ppl i seem to find with greedyness > Fun all the time. I´ve played DAOC for now 3-4 years now and i feel the course the game is taking is thowards the greedyness found in PvP games.


PS: This is not a whine is a personal vision of the game mixt with report of facts staten on previous posts. I sincerely hope im wrong and that the game returns to the previous shape

Best Regards

 

[Kagato]

The problem:

Inter-alliance communication, its virtually non-existant aside from a few mates that pm inbetween.

guild 'issues', many guilds dislike others for various valid or pointless reasons and wont have anything to do with each other.

'I can do better' syndrome, some groups or guilds often refuse to join BG efforts and instead go of to do their own thing. This 'can' be beneficial, i've done it myself to break tower ports etc, but on the whole it only works if you still coordinate with the BG. Spies or not, live with it and work with the realm.

Disheartend, often the best people to lead the BG's these days don't bother anymore because of all the shit and flak they get from it. And develop the 'fuck em' attitude. To me this is a fault with both the population as a whole as well as the BG leader, but either way it wont get resolved unless people give the leaders a bit of slack and try to work with the whole and if the BG leaders don't get the huff.



Why do we have this problem:

Three words, Realm War Map.

Thats it, thats the 'Route Cause' as we would say at work. The route cause of the isolation is the Realm War Map.

Guilds bickered and argued since day 1, heck I can still remember reading the GoL recruitment policy whines back on the old GOA forums, nothing changes just the names. But back then people HAD to communicate as its the only way you'd know a siege was going on.

Now all you need to do is type /rw and look for the flames, people spam their own /as or don't even bother and run to the keeps. For the most part alliances do not need to coordinate or speak to one another, the realm has grown out of the habit of working as a realm and with no singular figure to follow thats how it stays.

There are either issues that have helped to develope this situration but this is what it essentially comes down to. That is my analysis, im sure some may disagree.

How do we fix this:

It will essentially take several stages and a bit of effort from 'those who care'.

Basically though the first step is for alliances to sort themselves out, alliance leaders need to take a look at how many are in their alliance and see about encouraging the guilds of similier interest into joining them or if theres room combining the tiny alliances/guilds into their own. If theres an alliance of only 4 guilds and you have a big alliance with 4 spaces, look towards combining them.

Once the alliances are organised we can see about encouraging more inter-alliance activaty. Give several people from each alliance the responsibility of informing their counter parts on opposite alliances of important events, raids and details. If we can arrange this from just a few big alliances we'll immediate have a better situration.

If we can develope that to the maximum potential we can try again to use the old 'alb guild leaders' forums we used to have. I have no idea if they still exist or not I havent ran a guild in awhile, but if they do still exist they are obviously not being used to the best potential.

With a bit of organisation, developing defense response protocals should be easy and discourage the 'i can do better' mentality alone. And the leaders will be able to organise raids alot easier.

 

[Deventuris]

rep for ya Iron.

 

[Rub]

Rly nice post m8 but the game does require team building but not in zergs it should be every random good suited (wo)man should be able to join a group to make it well organised not only a group with only these and these classes and maybe only fg's are allowed to go into the frontiers and make a kind of solo only bg for solo'ers. ToA destroyed the random ppl in fg thing (i think).

 

[Deepflame]

Hmm, nothing wrong with zergs really. They are a natural phenomenon and serve their purpose during sieges as they're the main force. Smaller groups can (and should) roam around it to intercept incoming groups, take towers, generally be a pain in the ass to the enemy.

 

[Rub]

Hmm, nothing wrong with zergs really. They are a natural phenomenon and serve their purpose during sieges as they're the main force. Smaller groups can (and should) roam around it to intercept incoming groups, take towers, generally be a pain in the ass to the enemy.

agree but with zerg that i mean it can be 1v8 also it's rly stupid for solo'ers getting killed by fg's or more over and over again