How many people are leaving after 1.62?

[civy]

Originally posted by Aarweenie
2 seconds? what mess are you asuming you're beeing messed by then? the instant mess? cast mess?

and do you have calculations that it's 2 sec or is it something you just estimate when playing?

if you got calculations I would like to see them...

also keep in mind that the other realms doen't have this at all... so even if it's bad it's far better then any mess reduction hib or mid got...

and I don't see the humour in this... you might want to explain it for me

The clue was in my post.

“Group: wow, bet that’s good. How much does it reduce insta mezz by.”

And the calculation.

31 second mezz (healer top of the range insta) with 50% body resist will last 15.5 seconds. Then take 15% off and you get 13.175 seconds. A difference of 2.325 seconds.
Also remember over 50% of sorcs don’t take mind over 36 with gives a mezz chant of, wait for it, drum roll, 5%.

Humour. If you cant see it I wont explain it.

 

[Jenkz]

Originally posted by Aarweenie
To Jenkz:

SoS might not be imunity to CC but it is a usefull tool to avoid pbaoe dmg when you have beeing messed since it allows your grp to move during the mess time

you say that clerics rerolled or played the cleric as it "should" be played... then I wonder what spec a Zerker "should" have? well... LA I'd say... have any better Idea... and it's the LA that becomes nerfed...

I was just pointing out that SoS isnt as useful as people make out if:

1) your mincer doesnt have purge to purge-SoS in a bad situation

2) the rest of your group cannot purge the mez effect while SoSed, or the mincer doesnt cure mez everyone

if 1 and 2 are done then sure, SoS is extremely useful.

i still say midgard need SOME FORM of a group RA.

----------------

clerics "should" have been the primary healing class of albion, they were hairy arsed smiters instead... i know the analogy of cleric nerf vs zerker nerf is completely different, i was more comparing the number of people who were shouting "OMFG NERF, I CANCELED MY SUB MYTHIC SUX!!!" because of the smite, and now LA nerf.

zerkers "should" be the light tank of the realm, liken to the blademaster and merc. zerkers got an extreme style-growth boost in a patch some time ago because of some gimp at mythic being entirely incompetant at mathematics.... something along the lines of "Because zerkers always hit with both hands, they lose half the damage of mercs and bms" - i cant remember exactly, but they recieved double the style-growth of mercs and bms.

one of the TLs recently provided an extensive report into the style-growth formula for CD, DW and LA. It proved, beyond all doubt, that LA was doing twice the damage CD and DW were - because of mythics blunder in doubling it a while back.

my POINT was, that zerkers "SHOULD" be doing the damage they are set to do in 1.62 NOT what they are doing currently. why? because thats in line with the dual-wield styles in CD and DW.....

mercs, and i guess to some degree bms, seem to get by in RvR pretty damn well with their style-growths, so why cannot zerkers now they have been brought back into line?

there are OTHER issues with midgard lacking - group RAs, the population of midgard, in some cases, not playing the REQUIRED classes for RvR (mend shammie and aug/mend healer, for example) which means they lack in some areas such as resist buffs. i would hardly say the bringing-back-in-line of LA has killed midgard in 1.62, as i have said once already - you got given a 179 base DD alongside a 50% cold debuff on a dorf in the same patch.

 

[klavrynd]

am i the only one that notices that mercs outlive a zerk or am i just playing with shoddy healers?

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Originally posted by klavrynd
am i the only one that notices that mercs outlive a zerk or am i just playing with shoddy healers?

<Waits for Freia to go mental and gets a bag of popcorn to enjoy the show>

 

[Jenkz]

Originally posted by klavrynd
am i the only one that notices that mercs outlive a zerk or am i just playing with shoddy healers?

i dont see mercs 2 hitting casters, but thats another story entirely >> I SUPPOSE <<

 

[Damon_D]

one of the TLs recently provided an extensive report into the style-growth formula for CD, DW and LA. It proved, beyond all doubt, that LA was doing twice the damage CD and DW were - because of mythics blunder in doubling it a while back.

Yeah and it has since been proven that the dude had no clcue what he was doing, Solid wanna take over from here ??..you got the dip on that style-growth dude

 

[Petronella]

left-axe nerf wont make me leave. buffbot-users will.

 

[Jenkz]

Originally posted by Damon Doombring
Yeah and it has since been proven that the dude had no clcue what he was doing, Solid wanna take over from here ??..you got the dip on that style-growth dude

If theres some decent evidence that style-growth dude was talking bullshit, and mythic have acted on it, they need their heads looking into again :/

I'm entirely basing my argument on this around the current inbalance between LA and CD/DW - around what that style-growth dude said, so if he's incorrect, i take it back.

 

[hrodelbert]

imo, 1 class one realm one race no points to spend on stats at the start, no skills and RA's , no equipment, just naked mud wrestling

 

[scarffs]

Originally posted by civy
The clue was in my post.

“Group: wow, bet that’s good. How much does it reduce insta mezz by.”

And the calculation.

31 second mezz (healer top of the range insta) with 50% body resist will last 15.5 seconds. Then take 15% off and you get 13.175 seconds. A difference of 2.325 seconds.
Also remember over 50% of sorcs don’t take mind over 36 with gives a mezz chant of, wait for it, drum roll, 5%.

Humour. If you cant see it I wont explain it.

Errm , you assume that everyone has 50% body resist....
Is that an alb only thing ?
I have 26% body but thats it you know....aaah wait you mean resist buffs also which we in Midgard dont know about...ok
Have to agree that the ch

 

[scarffs]

Originally posted by civy
The clue was in my post.

“Group: wow, bet that’s good. How much does it reduce insta mezz by.”

And the calculation.

31 second mezz (healer top of the range insta) with 50% body resist will last 15.5 seconds. Then take 15% off and you get 13.175 seconds. A difference of 2.325 seconds.
Also remember over 50% of sorcs don’t take mind over 36 with gives a mezz chant of, wait for it, drum roll, 5%.

Humour. If you cant see it I wont explain it.

Errm , you assume that everyone has 50% body resist....
Is that an alb only thing ?
I have 26% body but thats it you know....aaah wait you mean resist buffs also which we in Midgard dont know about...ok
Have to agree that the chant isnt all that great, but ot cut to the chase here instead of whining and whining :
Mid needs help and a lookover, Hib is clearly the cookiecutter and albion is good.
I made a post about this someday, i'll try to find it and post it.

 

[Jaem]

Re: Re: How many people are leaving after 1.62?

Originally posted by Generic Poster
2500 Shadowblade accounts
2500 Shaman accounts

Good riddance.

Not every SB has a bot as your trying to point :/

Don't stereotype please.

 

[Aarweenie]

Originally posted by civy
The clue was in my post.

“Group: wow, bet that’s good. How much does it reduce insta mezz by.”

And the calculation.

31 second mezz (healer top of the range insta) with 50% body resist will last 15.5 seconds. Then take 15% off and you get 13.175 seconds. A difference of 2.325 seconds.
Also remember over 50% of sorcs don’t take mind over 36 with gives a mezz chant of, wait for it, drum roll, 5%.

Humour. If you cant see it I wont explain it.

oki... but let's look at it annother way...

we take the healers 65 second mess instead... but this time you don't got a 45 enhancement cleric in the grp... this is what you need to get 50 body in a grp if you don't got a lot of aom and SC armor... then it's oki with 33 enhance

todays target we say have 26% resistance and have a cleric with the first body mess with him/her... that would be 34% resistance...

65-34%= 42,9

then we take the 15% mess reduction

42,9-15%= 36,465

then thereduction have been 6,435 seconds... might not seam long... but in RvR I would concider that as almost an eternity...


2,325 is also a very nice reduciton to an instant mess... when we're sitting here talking about seconds then they don't seam long... but when you're out in RvR then even small numbers can do a lot of diffrence...



To Jenkz

well... you're right about SoS isn't comparable with Group Purge as a CC escape button... but it's still useable for the purpose...

if you get messed or stunned then you can get a far better chance of turning the battle if you can move during the mess time... even if you can't cast or swing... you can avoid pbaoe by splitting up the grp... you will move at twice the speed of the tanks eventually hitting you and if it's not ennough you can allways sprint...

I know it's by far not as good as group purge... but it's still something that can turn the battle if used right...


I won't continue a discussion about how much LA will get nerfed... since I don't know how much it will affect the realm... I haven't checked it out on US server... some of you might have and I would like to hear a comment from you about it... you're talking about it will bring balance in the light tank classes... maybe it will maybe it won't...

from what I've heard, zerkers will be killed in duels with pac healers...


about the last DD on runemasters that's something Albion and Hibernia have got for a while... a lvl 50 baseline nuke... then we might get it on a dwarf with 80 base con... but then again we don't have any class with more then 60 base acuity

Avalonians start with 60 dex and 80 int

Elfs start with 75 dex and 70 int

Dwarfs start with 50 dex and 60 piety


so saying they are better because of their con... that I find quite silly... since I guess that's the thing you're pointing at when you say you can put this things on a "dorf"

 

[civy]

Originally posted by Aarweenie
oki... but let's look at it annother way...

we take the healers 65 second mess instead... but this time you don't got a 45 enhancement cleric in the grp... this is what you need to get 50 body in a grp if you don't got a lot of aom and SC armor... then it's oki with 33 enhance

todays target we say have 26% resistance and have a cleric with the first body mess with him/her... that would be 34% resistance...

65-34%= 42,9

then we take the 15% mess reduction

42,9-15%= 36,465

then thereduction have been 6,435 seconds... might not seam long... but in RvR I would concider that as almost an eternity...


2,325 is also a very nice reduciton to an instant mess... when we're sitting here talking about seconds then they don't seam long... but when you're out in RvR then even small numbers can do a lot of diffrence...

The 2.325 is at the centre of the mezz, with drop off the reduction will be down to about a second at the edge.

Paladins have a 20% body resist chant plus AOM1 = 49%.

The bottom line of this chant is the lower your resists the more help it is.

With the rumour mill stirring about resists being reworked it might have a use in the future, but as things stand at them moment It isn’t worth the points to spec for it.

 

[Jenkz]

Originally posted by Aarweenie
To Jenkz

about the last DD on runemasters that's something Albion and Hibernia have got for a while... a lvl 50 baseline nuke... then we might get it on a dwarf with 80 base con... but then again we don't have any class with more then 60 base acuity

Avalonians start with 60 dex and 80 int

Elfs start with 75 dex and 70 int

Dwarfs start with 50 dex and 60 piety


so saying they are better because of their con... that I find quite silly... since I guess that's the thing you're pointing at when you say you can put this things on a "dorf"

one thing, probably the biggest thing, which made mana chanters overpowered was their ability to 179 base heat DD with their 50% heat debuff in mana. This simply meant they out damaged the primary nukers of their realm (spec lights)... Mythic, instead of dealing with this, has now given midgard this ability, on RC runemasters with spares dark. Your high RC runies will now be able to 3-4 nuke most classes with ease, just as manachanters can.

albion has no such ability, we have a 157 lifetap DD in baseline body on a cabalist, with 50% body debuff in high SPIRIT (the buff line for cabalist) which frankly, i dont know of any around, its a pretty worthless spec line.

i was merely pointing out that while one aspect of midgard (LA) has been reduced in effectivity, you've been given something all casters dream of in another ability...

 

[Coren]

Re: Re: Re: How many people are leaving after 1.62?

Originally posted by Jaem
Not every SB has a bot as your trying to point :/

Don't stereotype please.

Not every shaman account is a buffbot account. Who's stereotyping now?

 

[SilverHood]

on RC runemasters with spares dark. Your high RC runies will now be able to 3-4 nuke most classes with ease, just as manachanters can.

get a clue

chanters debuffed their own damage
dmg = heat
debuff = heat
spec = mana

runies can spec RC to debuff their own baseline darkness dd's

there's a helluva difference

and they nerfed this in 1.62 too

 

[mordia]

Originally posted by SilverHood
get a clue

chanters debuffed their own damage
dmg = heat
debuff = heat
spec = mana

runies can spec RC to debuff their own baseline darkness dd's

there's a helluva difference

and they nerfed this in 1.62 too

It is exactly the same thing for runemasters as it is for enchanters.

 

[Aarweenie]

Originally posted by civy
The 2.325 is at the centre of the mezz, with drop off the reduction will be down to about a second at the edge.

Paladins have a 20% body resist chant plus AOM1 = 49%.

The bottom line of this chant is the lower your resists the more help it is.

With the rumour mill stirring about resists being reworked it might have a use in the future, but as things stand at them moment It isn’t worth the points to spec for it.

first I want to say one thing to your previous post... if you don't spec for the chant then it's your own fault...
healers that goes mend and aug to get decent spread heals and resistbuffs have to give up CC... most of all instant AE stun that everyone mentions all the time... so if you give up that chant to get better body nukes or what ever you do with the rest of the points... then that's your decision...

for this however I just want to say that calculations are still incomplete due to you're not automaticlly have a pally or annother resist buffer in a grp if you create one... and they don't automaticlly have SC armor... nor aom1...

also keep in mind that mid and hib got nothing to reduce their mess time (if you don't look at RAs that is)
and don't forget that seconds is what matters in RvR... most fights are not esp longer then 30 sec... and for that the reduction works really well...

don't forget the 55% shelf buff reduction sorc have... and that they when the mess has passed out can start CM their grp members...

the mess reduction opens many possibilities to turn the fight...


To Jenkz:

someone once told me this:

Hibernia - the caster realm
Midgard - the tank/melee realm
Albion - a mix of the both

so now we take a look at the debuff nukeing... since that is what this seams to be all about...

Hibernias debuff nuker:
-Enchanter (Mana / Light spec)

Toolbox:

Heat debuff (50%)
pbaoe 325DD (Energy) (main pbaoe of the realm)
stun 9 sec single target (Heat)
170 DD single target (Heat) (baseline)
Caster pet (Heat from what I'm told) (also have a snare effect)

as we can see here Enchanters can debuff both their own baseline 2nd-spec line (the heat base line DD that is) and their pets nuke dmg... what they can't debuff is their own pbaoe...
also again the baseline stun comes up... and it's there making Enchanters quite nasty...

Midgards debuff nuker
- Runemaster (Runecarving / Darkness spec)

Toolbox:

Cold debuff (50%)
Dual bolt 317/239 DD (one spec one baseline) (Energy)
gtaoe 155DD (Energy)
179 DD single target (Cold) (baseline)

as we can see here Runemasters can debuff their baseline nuke (2nd spec line) just as enchanters can... they can't debuff their own pbaoe dmg and that isn't even the main pbaoe of the realm... they can however send away bolts that can do serious dmg to enemy casters but are easilly blocked by tanks...


Albion debuff nuker

there's a risk of ppl will call me stupid when I say this but I'll take the risk...

- Wizards (Ice spec)

Toolbox:

179 DD single target (Cold) (baseline)
pbaoe 325DD (Cold) (main pbaoe)
Snare Nuke 179DD (Cold) (35% snare)
debuff nuke 171DD (Cold) (singletarget) (-10%)
debuff nuke 130DD (Cold) (AE) (-10%)
bolt 239DD (Heat) (baseline)

as we can see here Wizards can slightly debuff their own snare nuke with 10% resistance and make the target run 35% slower... they can also AE debuff their own pbaoe, that also is the realms main pbaoe, with 10%... they also have a base line bolt that can do some dmg on casters but is easilly blocked by tanks...



Diffrent realms caster races:


Hibernia:

- Elf

Elf starts with 75 dex and 70 intelligence


not much to say here... high dex high intelligence... lower str/con


Midgard:

- Dwarf? Norse? Kobbie?

Dwarf starts with 50 dex and 60 Piety (but they have 80 con)

Norse starts with 50 dex and 60 Piety (they have 70 str)

Kobbie starts with 70 dex and 60 Piety (50 con, 50 str)

so what do we see here?
I see one tank race (Dwarf), one tank/rouge class (Norse), one rough class (Kobbie)
no really caster class here.... all have the same pie and low dex on all except for the kobbie...

basiclly, Midgard need to use a tank or rouge class to thier casters classes...

(I know there will be discussions about Kobbie as a warrior and so, I got one myshelf, really nice blocking due to high dex but kobbie wasn't designed to be a warrior, it could become a warrior, but as it says in the text when it starts, kobbies aren't really suposed to be Vikings)


Albion:

- Avalonian
- (Inconnu)

Avalonian starts with 80 intelligence and 60 dex

Inconnu with 70 dex and 70 int... but I'll leave it out of the discussion since they can't become Wizards




Ending it up:

Hibernia clerarly got the strongest debuff nukes as I can see it... question is if they deserve it? I do think they deserve it since they are the caster realm after all... but the stun on base line make them too good... what makes this stun diffrent from healers stun is that AE stun is first of all not baseline... the single target stun however is baseline... but then you need a caster to assist you with it... that you won't need in the case of the Enchanter...
beside from debuffing their own nuke they also debuff the nuke of their pet... that have a slight snare effect too...

Midgard have a quite simular debuff nuke to Hibernia... diffrence here is that you need an healer to assist you or too assist a healer to get stun effect on the target you're nukeing... here you don't have any snare effects either... so the tank or what ever you're nukeing will have some extra time to get in melee range with you... tho against casters this debuff nuker is the best from my point of view due to the two bolts it have... weaker against tanks, stronger against other casters....
what also midgard have a problem with is that they don't have any real caster races that the other two realms have... they have to transform a tank or rough class into a caster...

Albions debuffnuker is a bit diffrent to the other realms debuff nukers... they don't debuff for as much as the others... but the opening nuke (the debuff) will deal damage compared to the others... and instead of useing a base line nuke of the secondary line they use a spec buff with snare effect from their primary line.... they also have the ability to debuff AE, that becomes extra handy since they are the main pbaoe of the realm....


My point in this is that the last DD in the baseline for casters in mid is something that made the balance between the realms in debuff nuking better... the relation between alb and hib in debuff nukeing remained the same... but the debuff nuking between mid and hib/alb became better...

 

[mordia]

Midgards debuff nuker
- Runemaster (Runecarving / Darkness spec)

Toolbox:

Cold debuff (50%)
Dual bolt 317/239 DD (one spec one baseline) (Energy)
pbaoe 155DD (secondary pbaoe of the realm) (Energy)
179 DD single target (Cold) (baseline)

You forgot that runemasters get GTAE in runecarving spec.

 

[Aarweenie]

sorry... the pbaoe should be gtaoe... will edit it... anyhow it's not important if it was pbaoe or gtaoe... since they can't debuff it anyway

 

[pudzy]

If everyone did some constructive thinking like Aarween at mythic maybe the realms would be better arranged.

 

[Spinky]

Aarweenie, If its debuff casting you're on about instead of pbae, Albions main debuffer of own baseline damage etc, is the Cabalist, not the wizard, with a 50% body debuff and 140 delve lifedrain (body), far cry from the 179 dd of Mid and Hib, but being a Lifedrain spell, it can't be expected to be any higher I guess, especially as a baseline spell.

 

[pudzy]

<pokes spinky>

 

[Spinky]

*Squeaks*

 

[Cybwyn]

Originally posted by Aarweenie
Wizards (Ice spec)

Toolbox:

179 DD single target (Cold) (baseline)
pbaoe 325DD (Cold) (main pbaoe)
Snare Nuke 179DD (Cold) (35% snare)
debuff nuke 171DD (Cold) (singletarget) (-10%)
debuff nuke 130DD (Cold) (AE) (-10%)
bolt 239DD (Heat) (baseline)

as we can see here Wizards can slightly debuff their own snare nuke with 10% resistance and make the target run 35% slower... they can also AE debuff their own pbaoe, that also is the realms main pbaoe, with 10%... they also have a base line bolt that can do some dmg on casters but is easilly blocked by tanks...

No they can't AE debuff their own PBAoE. The AE debuff does cold damage but debuffs heat resistance.

 

[kaine_1]

The fact that Midgard has Darkness Falls open to them 90% of the time speaks for itself.

As for you SB's who are whining that Infi's/Nightshades might actually be able to compete against you, try listening to yourselves.

Zerkers? nuff said.......

As for RA's, Insta-aoe stun almost guarantees you the initiative in any conflict.

In my opinion Hibs are the most overpowered (rvr) - but considering the % Hib server population, they damn well need to be.

Im sick of hearing you mid crying its not fair that you have to do the same damage as other realms, and personally I think whining is only turning others against you.

To all the other mids who have made legitemate posts in this thread.....my apologies, most of you are pretty decent Im sure.

 

[Sagba]

Originally posted by Cybwyn
No they can't AE debuff their own PBAoE. The AE debuff does cold damage but debuffs heat resistance.

It's AE nuke with Cold Debuff. Dont trust on Catacomb's Character Builder

 

[otho]

Originally posted by kaine_1
The fact that Midgard has Darkness Falls open to them 90% of the time speaks for itself.
.
.
.
In my opinion Hibs are the most overpowered (rvr) - but considering the % Hib server population, they damn well need to be.

The fact who got DF the most does not have imply that that realm got the best classes. It is more up to organisation and guilds making great efforts to keep DF open.

You said "Hibs are the most overpowered (rvr)" but that does not give them DF by default. It depends on the realms rvr population! Do they run around in emain zerging? Or do the activly claim keeps and defend them to keep DF open.

Do not use DF as an argument for overpowered classes, it does not work.

 

[)nick(]

I'm not leaving after 1.62.