Grow tired of anti-smokes...

[Lamp]

someone put Jeros in an air-tight container
lol

 

[old.Tohtori]

I know I can't argue with you toht because.. Well you're toht

But on this subject I was agreeing with you 100% when I was a smoker. Now that I've stopped smoking I see things from a totally different angle, and to your big surprise, I totally disagree with you now

You can't discuss with me because, well, you're CorNokZ

Yes, you're worse then anti-smokers, you're an ex-smoker turned anti-smoker. Usually the ones who are more hellbent on getting everyone else to quit.

You don't like smoking, fine, but as long as i'm nto harming others, not your concern. And i'm not.

Zenith, that is a logical conclusion, funny though

 

[Chronictank]

where the hell are all the comparison with drinking coming from?

.

Because i said anti-smoking zealots who drink should be put in an air tight container as it is just as filthy a habit, good suggestion Lamp

 

[liloe]

I think people living on state money shouldn't be allowed to buy alcohol or tobacco. Nothing beats a couple of guys sitting around a table drinking beer and smoking while complaining that the state doesn't give them enough money xD

 

[Amanita]

My hatred is 90% "ow it stops my lungs working" and 10% "that smell is awful".

I just avoided bars, but the russian roulette the streets and bus stops have turned into annoys me no end.

 

[Chronictank]

My hatred is 90% "ow it stops my lungs working" and 10% "that smell is awful".

I just avoided bars, but the russian roulette the streets and bus stops have turned into annoys me no end.

take it you dont go into major cities/industrial towns either

In london i breath in more crap travelling on the tube than i ever will through passive smoking

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-1262027-passengers-choke-on-the-tube.do
20 mins on the Northern Line = 1 cigarette

 

[Thorwyn]

I think people living on state money shouldn't be allowed to buy alcohol or tobacco.

That´s a joke, right?

 

[Chronictank]

That´s a joke, right?

to be fair if the government provided help to ween them off them it is a fair point in one way

They are both luxury items, problem is however it is a completely unenforcable rule as long as people are given cash (and even then a black market will develop where they exchange food/clothes vouchers for it)

 

[CorNokZ]

Lay off the chronic Mr. Tank.. A beer wont harm you nearly as much as a fag will

 

[Thorwyn]

They are both luxury items, problem is however it is a completely unenforcable rule as long as people are given cash (and even then a black market will develop where they exchange food/clothes vouchers for it)

They´re as "luxury" as warm meals or hot water coming out of the shower. Or a television. Or a computer. You can survive without, which makes them luxury goods!?

As long as the government is unable to offer people a REAL alternative (jobs, regular and sufficient income), it´s just obscene to set up such rules. Unfortunately, there are not enough jobs.

Social welfare is not a pittance, it´s an implicitness of out society, because it can hit everyone. And trust me, you´re faster down there than you think.
Who are we to tell people what they may or may not comsume? There´s a thing called dignity...

 

[Chronictank]

Lay off the chronic Mr. Tank.. A beer wont harm you nearly as much as a fag will

the level of harm is pretty irrelevant,
it is bad for you so under the same guise if you support the blanket ban on smoking you should do likewise with drinking
I wonder whats worth for you, a hit of absynth or a cigarette /ponder

 

[georgie]

Lay off the chronic Mr. Tank.. A beer wont harm you nearly as much as a fag will

I bet 30 beers in a row harms you more than 30 fags in a row though

 

[Chronictank]

They´re as "luxury" as warm meals or hot water coming out of the shower. Or a television. Or a computer. You can survive without, which makes them luxury goods!?

Warm meals and hot water are basic commodities,

a computer arugably is too considering you need one for almost everything nowadays (including finding gainful employment), but yes this can be argued to be a luxury because of libraries

A tv is also arguably a luxury, however it is pretty fundemental to alot of things (including educational programming for kids which alot of schools include in their teaching, bitesize and xmas lectures for example)


A drink and a cigarette are definitely a luxury, as are holidays abroad and so on and so forth
I honestly cannot see how they are not

 

[Thorwyn]

My point is: we either agree to pay for social welfare and let the recipients decide what to do with it, or we stop doing it and just hand out vouchers. Welfare recipients are not beggars. We´re simply not in the position to say "hey, you receive social help, so you´re not allowed to buy a beer or smoke". That´s not how our system works.

 

[liloe]

That´s a joke, right?

Yes it was meant as a joke, but it's still hilarious. I really had someone complain to me about not having enough money (student) while smoking 1-2 packets of ciggies a day.

I admit in shame that I was (and still am) sitting at home - tired and sick - and wanted to post something.

But what I really do think is that it's time for the public health insurance to take measures to make people pay who voluntarily live an unhealthy life. The privates have been doing that forever. Some things just happen like that, but if one gets lung cancer cause of smoking, then making others pay for the expensive operations isn't my idea of a social system anymore.

P.S.: Do you really think I'd seriously promote such dictatorship ideas?

 

[Calaen]

And since it's on the thread and it's derailed pretty much, why isn't anyone addressign peerpressure drinking in bars? Surely that's harmful to others.

Peerpressure drinking being "Oh you're not drinking? What's wrong? You driving? Why you in a bar and not drinking?"

Are you out of your mind? asking someone why they are not drinking is hardly forcing them to have a drink.

 

[Sparx]

A bit like the cans of failing livers and pints of kidney disease


Or causes a fight, or damages the seating so you have to stand, or....
Direct health impact? no not really unless there is a confrontation
Indirect negative impact? yes


I don't see any reasonable smokers saying you should be allowed to smoke anywhere, however they want places where you are allowed to smoke
Non-smokers then make the choice to go in and be exposed to it

Mate, if your going to quote me at least quote everything istead of picking and you will i agree with you about a full out and out ban

I agree that banning smoking in lounges and clubs is one step too far

and yes i agree with if you were there smoking first why should you move just cause a non-smoker arrived. Just cause you smoke doesnt make you black in 40s America

Also smokers why not smoke one of these...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ives-nicotine-hit-gets-round-smoking-ban.html

Electronic Cigarette - Milano Electric Cigarette - Only £22.99! UK


A couple of my friends got them and swear by them, havent bought fags since. And you can smoke them inside which pisses bouncers off but nothing they can do about it as it doesnt produce harmful waste

 

[chipper]

there are over 4000 chemicals in cigarettes heres just a few of the more nasty ones. and ANYONE who thinks breathing this shit in is not harmful over a period of time is really fucking out of there mind. pretty sure you dont get the majority of these chemicals floating around london.

Chemicals In Cigarettes Chemical Description
Benzene
(petrol additive)

* A colourless cyclic hydrocarbon obtained from coal and petroleum, used as a solvent in fuel and in chemical manufacture - and contained in cigarette smoke.
* A It known carcinogen associated with leukaemia.

Formaldehyde
(embalming fluid)

* A colourless liquid, highly poisonous, used to preserve dead bodies - also found in cigarette smoke.
* Known to cause cancer, respiratory, skin and gastrointestinal problems.

Ammonia
(toilet cleaner)

* Used as a flavouring, frees nicotine from tobacco turning it into a gas
* Often found in dry cleaning fluids.

Acetone
(nail polish remover)

* Fragrant volatile liquid ketone, used as a solvent, for example, nail polish remover
* Found in cigarette smoke.

Tar

* Particulate matter drawn into lungs when you inhale on a lighted cigarette. Once inhaled, smoke condenses and about 70 per cent of the tar in the smoke is deposited in the smoker's lungs.

Nicotine
(insecticide/addictive drug)

* One of the most addictive substances known to man, a powerful and fast-acting medical and non-medical poison.
* This is the chemical which causes addiction.

Carbon Monoxide (CO)
(car exhaust fumes)

* An odourless, tasteless and poisonous gas, rapidly fatal in large amounts
* The same gas that comes out of car exhausts
* The main gas in cigarette smoke, formed when the cigarette is lit

Others

* Arsenic (rat poison)
* Hydrogen Cyanide (gas chamber poison)


end of the day toht smoking is not the cool tool it once used to be. now alot of people just think wtf are you doing that to your self, at least in england, i know you live in heathen parts

there have been hundreds of studies and tests and not ONE of them has said ye you know what spark up it wont kill ya. theres a reason there are warning labels on cigarette packets. infact i once read you breathe in more chemicals as a passive smoker than you do as an actual smoker due to the fact you arent taking the smoke in via a filter tab. dunno whether thats true or not quite disturbing if it is.

as for the whole drinking debate sorry but thats just a weak attempt to come back fighting, drinking is actually healthy for you in moderation it doesnt affect anyone around you physically in terms of giving them some sort of health problem (cept unless he/she is a violent drunk) sorry but i dont see how you can logically defend smoking. as said before i hate it, but its not against the law to do it so i dont generally kick off about it, if i see a smoker in front of me i usually slow my pace or cross the road to avoid the smoke, mainly because i know the smoker doesnt give 2 fucks about me and its not against the law so i put myself out to avoid it. youll never please everyone in this world so there has to be a compromise what that would be for me is to increase spending on helping people to stop smoking and educate them on the dangers. throwing bans about just pisses people off and that gets their back up. like always prevention is better than cure if you can stop people starting to smoke you dont have to deal with the problems later on

/rant off

 

[Thorwyn]

But what I really do think is that it's time for the public health insurance to take measures to make people pay who voluntarily live an unhealthy life. The privates have been doing that forever. Some things just happen like that, but if one gets lung cancer cause of smoking, then making others pay for the expensive operations isn't my idea of a social system anymore.

But where do you start? And where do you stop? What exactly is voluntarily? And isn´t that just a covered form of "allowing" (meaning that the rich are still able to smpoke away, while the poor can´t afford the extra pay)? And even more important: how do you want to control it?

P.S.: Do you really think I'd seriously promote such dictatorship ideas?

No, I don´t. That´s why I was confused.

 

[Chronictank]

there are over 4000 chemicals in cigarettes heres just a few of the more nasty ones. and ANYONE who thinks breathing this shit in is not harmful over a period of time is really fucking out of there mind. pretty sure you dont get the majority of these chemicals floating around london.

Chemicals In Cigarettes Chemical Description
Benzene
(petrol additive)

-snip-

* Arsenic (rat poison)
* Hydrogen Cyanide (gas chamber poison)

No-one claimed smoking is good for you...
I could list all the things that are on the tube and not in cigarettes but its a pointless exercise. I also would like to see the source for your post as it looks like a bit of creative posting has been done

The drinking analogy was brought up because it is bad for you, but you do it anyway whether it is habitual, social, enjoyable or you are addicted doesn't really matter.
It's your choice to drink, you do it because you want to. This is exactly the same as smoking

as for the whole drinking debate sorry but thats just a weak attempt to come back fighting, drinking is actually healthy for you in moderation

Absolute and utter rubbish, there are NO conclusive reports suggesting drinking is good for you in any form.
There are a couple of studies suggesting a glass of wine *may* have positive effects but even these are not proven to by solid evidence,
It was suggested that drinking *could* be good for you based on an observational survey
Is Moderate Drinking good foryou? - Wellsphere
At the same time other studies concluded even in moderation

The most recent studies link drinking, even in moderation, to stomach and pancreatic cancers. It is unwise, therefore, to recommend non-drinkers to start drinking in order to protect their health, and moderate drinkers should weight the benefits of possibly higher HDL and anti-clotting effects against the danger of cancer and liver disease.

As for the public purse, smokers contribute more to the health service than they use, alcohol however...

You cannot without being entirely hypocritical defend drinking and then support a blanket ban on smoking

@corknose i was just re-iterating a point i know you posted the rest but someone was bound to quote it
For the record i agree with you, smoking should be stopped in public places but not in places dedicated to it

 

[Sparx]

I havent seen a single study that smoking one fag *may* have positive effects

 

[Chronictank]

I havent seen a single study that smoking one fag *may* have positive effects

. <- the point


































:/ <- you

 

[Sparx]

I'm merely nit picking your post to optimise my point, alot like what you done matey boy

 

[chipper]

it was a copy and paste job it was a string of txt which i took a chunk out of think i googled chemicals in cigarettes although i did know of most of those listed been in cigs.

right i can argue the toss between drink and fags, anti-oxidants are in red wine and anti oxidants are good for you yes? bear in mind here i am talking about daily limits reccomended units allowed not 2 bottles of wine a day. what redeeming qualities do cigarettes have? ive found 1 you can search yaself if ya interested im not doing the leg work but weigh 1 benefit against the 100's of potential problems smoking can cause well you do the math.

studies suggest you can drink your alloted units every day with no ill side effects cigarettes have a cumulative effect and are highly addicitive to the majority of people. i dont have all the answers i dont think anyone does. but one thing that should be really clear by now is smoking is bad kidding yourself otherwise is just delusional. alot of smokers accept that fact these days however they will not do anything about it.

this is what winds me up about smokers oh i wish i could stop. so stop bitching and stop, its not going to be easy but you got yourself into this position so you get yourself out of it because at the end of the day it comes down you. (speech to GF yes she smokes) told her id help anyway i could im not a heartless bastard

 

[Sparx]

If only addiction was as easy as ok thats it im done. And there were absolutely no tempations like mates doing them or being drunk

I dont think the original point was the badness of them more about banning which as a non smoker i disagree with banning in certain places like i said. But then i would still be forced to go to those places as most of my mates smoke and im not going to go sit in a non smoking place alone. Either suck it up and go to a smoking area which is selfish of my mates always doing that, or enjoy the smoking ban which is selfish of me

 

[chipper]

i know what ya saying sparx its not a case of saying just stop the addiction is strong but many people have quit so it can be done it comes down to will power can have all the patches and shit in the world but if you dont want to quit you wont.

like i said the compromise for me would be to educate people before they start.

 

[Sparx]

i know from other experiences its so hard and it just takes one moment of weakeness, be it drunk or under the influence of something else and your will power is weakened, then its back to step 1

 

[Olgaline]

you lot are wasting your time,
after all, it would be fair to asume that a smokers judgement is clouded "get it ?"

 

[old.Tohtori]

Are you out of your mind? asking someone why they are not drinking is hardly forcing them to have a drink.

Actually it is and no i'm not.

By asking those kind of questions, the people who don't have a reason not to drink(other then don't want to), tend to drink just to avoid people riding them on the subject.

"Are you sick? Are you driving? What's wrong?"

Nothing!

"Then why?"

I dont think the original point was the badness of them more about banning

Actually the original point was that there's no proof smoking outside enclosed spaces being harmful to others. Which no one has shown to be.

there are over 4000 chemicals in cigarettes heres just a few of the more nasty ones. and ANYONE who thinks breathing this shit in is not harmful over a period of time is really fucking out of there mind. pretty sure you dont get the majority of these chemicals floating around london.

Even if i never claimed antyhing about health issues od smoking and all this bullsh*t on this thread, have to say to upper quote; MIGHT be harmful. Key point.

 

[Sparx]

The people i listen to the most in this situation are the ones who did smoke and no longer, they have been on both sides