Politics General Election 2017

[DaGaffer]

Do you even read my posts.
Or just skim the first line then fill in your own ideas.
One of the first fears of Brexit was an increased co fidence in independence claims over the EU...Im not saying ...this is tiresome...that they thought of independence because of brexit..it just changed the landscape for them to end up in this situation.

No it fucking wasn't. There was a concern about Brexit encouraging other exits from the EU, but not independence movements per se. You're just making shit up. Apart from anything else, the Catalans want to stay in the EU. Don't tak shit.

 

[Raven]

Chances of Spain allowing them into the EU, post any independence from Spain. 0.

Internal fighting because of it, lots.

 

[Wij]

Internal fighting because of it, lots.

And that's exactly why Russian trolls and bots have been stoking this for years.

 

[DaGaffer]

Chances of Spain allowing them into the EU, post any independence from Spain. 0.

Internal fighting because of it, lots.

If Spain let Catalonia go, it would be in their interest for Catalonia to remain in the EU, and it would be in the EU's interest as well. It would happen.

 

[Hawkwind]

If Spain let Catalonia go, it would be in their interest for Catalonia to remain in the EU, and it would be in the EU's interest as well. It would happen.

How could they possibly allow that after what they (EU) said about Skirtland?

 

[Wij]

How could they possibly allow that after what they (EU) said about Skirtland?

Mediterranean babes vs Susan Boyle. We know the thinking behind this.

 

[DaGaffer]

How could they possibly allow that after what they (EU) said about Skirtland?

Because the situation would have changed! Spain didn't want Scotland to secede because it would give Catalonia ideas. If Catalonia has seceded anyway, realpolitik is the order of the day. Its simply a different situation.

Of course Spain is going to fight tooth and nail to keep Catalonia, but if and when they go (and these things seem to get their own momentum) everything changes.

 

[Hawkwind]

Guess it would make the Eurocrats look like a bunch of c@nts but that is nothing new.

That was last weeks rule and no longer applies!

 

[Scouse]

That was last weeks rule and no longer applies!

Realpolitik...

 

[DaGaffer]

Guess it would make the Eurocrats look like a bunch of c@nts but that is nothing new.

That was last weeks rule and no longer applies!

What "rule"? The only issue for Catalonian accession to the EU was that Spain said they would veto it, but in actual fact they've never said that, they've said they would veto Scottish (and Kosovan) accession as Catalonian independence hasn't been discussed by the Spanish in another terms than "it ain't happening". The fate of an independent Catalonia hasn't been discussed by Spanish politicians in the first place because that would be a tacit admission it could happen.

 

[Job]

Chances of Spain allowing them into the EU, post any independence from Spain. 0.

Internal fighting because of it, lots.

Quite simply there in front of us why the EU will never work.
Catalan asks for EU membership..Spain objects.
Farcical..its either full federal EU overiding all the countries or nothing.

 

[Job]

No it fucking wasn't. There was a concern about Brexit encouraging other exits from the EU, but not independence movements per se. You're just making shit up. Apart from anything else, the Catalans want to stay in the EU. Don't tak shit.

The EU has just lost a cornerstone country, its chief leaders have taken a battering from nationalists..the the EU is weak and wobbling...perfect time to test Spanish resolve, make them..as they have..shoot themselves in the foot with gestapo style clampdowns, knowing the EU..as they are...will be too scared to intervene.
Full forward 25 years to a federal EU with its own army and EU troops would be down there imposing their will on independence of any kind.
What would that look like...

 

[DaGaffer]

The EU has just lost a cornerstone country, its chief leaders have taken a battering from nationalists..the the EU is weak and wobbling...perfect time to test Spanish resolve, make them..as they have..shoot themselves in the foot with gestapo style clampdowns, knowing the EU..as they are...will be too scared to intervene.
Full forward 25 years to a federal EU with its own army and EU troops would be down there imposing their will on independence of any kind.
What would that look like...

The EU HAS NO POWER TO INTERVENE YOU GIANT FUCKING MORON. Jesus Christ what is wrong with you? If they did intervene you'd be on hear foaming at the mouth about them overstepping their bounds, and if they don't, they're weak and indecisive. Just...fuck off.

 

[Job]

I dont mean go down there with a fucking army...
You talk about realpoltik and then casually ignore the influence a strong EU would have on the situation...they dont have hard powers, but DID have huge influence.
That influence is based on future relations...they are using it against us, jesus fuck..one minute the EU is this powerful monolith that will crush us and then at your convenience it is a toothless tiger.
The fucking EU is too scared to even mention it...can your aggressive brain even comprehend how that looks..how they are rolling over...Catalan in the EU...its going to be their choice, not the EU..they have just shot their bolt in front of the world

 

[Scouse]

@Job, yesterday:

Spoiler

OMGZ0R!!!! EUROPEZZ!!!111!1

 

[Raven]

@Job, the EU can condemn the violence against the populace, that is as far as they can go. They cannot get involved in whether Spain allows a binding referendum to occur or not, it is explicitly a decision for the Spanish government. Or the Catalan "government" if they chose to do it violently.

 

[DaGaffer]

I dont mean go down there with a fucking army...
You talk about realpoltik and then casually ignore the influence a strong EU would have on the situation...they dont have hard powers, but DID have huge influence.
That influence is based on future relations...they are using it against us, jesus fuck..one minute the EU is this powerful monolith that will crush us and then at your convenience it is a toothless tiger.
The fucking EU is too scared to even mention it...can your aggressive brain even comprehend how that looks..how they are rolling over...Catalan in the EU...its going to be their choice, not the EU..they have just shot their bolt in front of the world

FFS. the only sensible course for the EU at the moment is to follow the strictly legal line. Any opinion voiced would only make things worse. But of course if you have an agenda where anything the EU does, or does not do, is the definition of "worse" anyway, it doesn't really matter does it? There is absolutely nothing the EU could so or say at this junction which wouldn't have people like you using it as ammunition against them. Nothing.

 

[Hawkwind]

What "rule"? The only issue for Catalonian accession to the EU was that Spain said they would veto it, but in actual fact they've never said that, they've said they would veto Scottish (and Kosovan) accession as Catalonian independence hasn't been discussed by the Spanish in another terms than "it ain't happening". The fate of an independent Catalonia hasn't been discussed by Spanish politicians in the first place because that would be a tacit admission it could happen.

So when Scotland was voting the Eurocrats said they would have to join the queue and apply for membership. Basically following the rule for new membership, that rule!

 

[Scouse]

You mean scotland's utterly legal and democratic vote, don't you @Hawkwind?

 

[DaGaffer]

So when Scotland was voting the Eurocrats said they would have to join the queue and apply for membership. Basically following the rule for new membership, that rule!

As would Catalonia. It doesn't mean they won't get in, but they won't automatically get in and it would take a few years. My point is that once they were independent, it would be pointless and against their economic interest for Spain to fight their accession

 

[Hawkwind]

You mean scotland's utterly legal and democratic vote, don't you @Hawkwind?

Yeah the one where my mates kid could vote bcos he was at uni in Glasgow. Along with my grans Scottish Terrier ofc The one they lowered the voting age for in a desperate attempt to win.

 

[Scouse]

Yeah the one where my mates kid could vote bcos he was at uni in Glasgow. Along with my grans Scottish Terrier ofc The one they lowered the voting age for in a desperate attempt to win.

Who cares? It was legal...

 

[Raven]

Rees-Mogg takes on protesters at Tory event

This is hilarious. The look on the little oiks face when asked to articulate his thoughts. Completely devoid of any ideas at all.

#raisingawarenessthough

 

[caLLous]

 

[Bodhi]

That was fairly excrutiating to watch - she appears to me like a middle manager that has been left to run the show whilst the big bosses are away. Only problem is, who the hell do they put in her place? Boris and Reese-Mogg would be hilarious but a bit to divisive, and none of the other options look particularly appetising.

Still more appetising Comrade Corbyn and his merry band of Marxists, but Jesus - can we stop having to choose between least worst options please?

 

[Gwadien]

That was fairly excrutiating to watch - she appears to me like a middle manager that has been left to run the show whilst the big bosses are away. Only problem is, who the hell do they put in her place? Boris and Reese-Mogg would be hilarious but a bit to divisive, and none of the other options look particularly appetising.

Still more appetising Comrade Corbyn and his merry band of Marxists, but Jesus - can we stop having to choose between least worst options please?

1000000000000000000000000000000000% agree.

Brexit couldn't have happened at a worse time to be honest - I'm sure pretty much everyone agrees with that.

There's no real statesmen left anymore.

 

[Raven]

Anywhere.

Western society is no longer in the position to create them.

 

[Gwadien]

Merkel & Macron?

 

[Bodhi]

I'm pretty sure this will be an unpopular opinion (from me? Never) but I really do think there is an argument that, far from MP's being overpaid, they aren't actually paid enough. If we take an MP's salary to be 80 - 100k, the best and the brightest coming out of university will head straight to the City and earn 5 times that, leaving us with muppets, authoritarians and a whole catalogue of vested interests.

Pay them more but ban them from having any other forms of income would be a step in the right direction imo, especially for Cabinet ministers. It would be nice to have smart people in the HoC without lobbying from their friends.

 

[Raven]

The thing that is leading me to vote labour is that at least, on the whole, they live by their convictions. Honest fuckwits, rather than bent fuckwits.