Politics General Election 2017

[Gwadien]

The Al Yamah Arms deals were originally signed back in Thatcher's time. The continued arms sales to Saudi Air Force and Army brings in big bucks to companies such as BAe, RR and Westland a vast majority of the 7Bn in arms sales were the Typhoon fighters, a collaboration between several EU countries, all parties (incl. Germany) had to sign off on that. The same industry is also responsible for around 140,000 jobs. Think he's just ensured those workers don't vote Labour.

They seem to be saying that those arms go to terrorists which is not correct at all. A vast majority of the weapons used by terrorists came from China and Russia. They were not passed on by the Saudi government. Whilst there are many issues with individuals in many ME Region countries supporting and funding, via charities, the terror groups it is not the governments. In UAE for instance the government has banned all but a few charities due to the issue of funds being diverted to these groups.

Personally I think they are barking up the wrong tree. Helping the Saudis deal with the Wahhabi's and other extremists groups would be money better spent. If we don't sell the arms US and France will. Not taking the money is a bit daft especially given the somewhat uncertain future of trade with EU.

In your totally objective point of view.

 

[old.user4556]

Wonder what you guys would say if this was Sturgeon in Scotland?

 

[Raven]

In your totally objective point of view.

Please be pointing out where he is wrong.

 

[DaGaffer]

The Al Yamah Arms deals were originally signed back in Thatcher's time. The continued arms sales to Saudi Air Force and Army brings in big bucks to companies such as BAe, RR and Westland a vast majority of the 7Bn in arms sales were the Typhoon fighters, a collaboration between several EU countries, all parties (incl. Germany) had to sign off on that. The same industry is also responsible for around 140,000 jobs. Think he's just ensured those workers don't vote Labour.

They seem to be saying that those arms go to terrorists which is not correct at all. A vast majority of the weapons used by terrorists came from China and Russia. They were not passed on by the Saudi government. Whilst there are many issues with individuals in many ME Region countries supporting and funding, via charities, the terror groups it is not the governments. In UAE for instance the government has banned all but a few charities due to the issue of funds being diverted to these groups.

Personally I think they are barking up the wrong tree. Helping the Saudis deal with the Wahhabi's and other extremists groups would be money better spent. If we don't sell the arms US and France will. Not taking the money is a bit daft especially given the somewhat uncertain future of trade with EU.

That's the bit I'm struggling with. Feels like feeding a tiger to eat another tiger. Tigers tend not to do that. Also means we're by default in opposition to Iran, who, as far as I'm aware have never backed anyone to blow up bits of London. Relying on the Saudis for exports is a bad idea anyway because they're chewing through their reserves at an alarming rate and don't seem to be replacing them.

 

[Gwadien]

Please be pointing out where he is wrong.

What Gaffer said.

The Saudis could sort this shit out if they really wanted to, they're playing their own political tune and the West is nodding and playing along because money.

 

[Raven]

What Gaffer said.

The Saudis could sort this shit out if they really wanted to, they're playing their own political tune and the West is nodding and playing along because money.

Buuuut, not a stick to bash the Tories with (even though they are cunts)

 

[Gwadien]

Buuuut, not a stick to bash the Tories with (even though they are cunts)

True, wrong thread then.

Generally we should diminish our relationship with the Saudis and improve relations with countries who are more progressive; Jordan for instance.

 

[Raven]

Meh. I say fuck the lot of them. Become less reliant on their single export, fossil fuel and leave them to it.

 

[Job]

When you say less reliant on oil..in a sort of we still a very reliant on it sort of way.
Diesel, plastics, petrol, kerosene...every supertanker on the sea, every plane in the sky...we haven't even taken a tiny bite out of that usage.

 

[caLLous]

Tory 'strong and stable' advertising van overturns in the wind

 

[Embattle]

Van share: Shadow health secretary fails prescription cost test - BBC News

 

[Hawkwind]

In your totally objective point of view.

I worked in that industry for 12 years and went to Saudi, UAE and Oman as part of the those ME Region Sales deals training locals to use and look after it the equipment. I have not been part of it for 17 years. I think I am being quite objective and the News media we get here on ME Issues is far better than the diatribe of bad press you get in EU.

People stating Saudi is supporting terrorism is completely untrue. There are known individuals and groups that have and probably are but then there are many groups in UK and EU doing the same. Pretty much like the IRA used to do in the Irish pubs in London, "collecting for the boys" and dodgy charities.

 

[caLLous]

You can't hide from the EU negotiations, Mrs May. I bet they're pissing themselves laughing watching how fucking spineless she's been in this campaign.

 

[Scouse]

Van share: Shadow health secretary fails prescription cost test - BBC News

He forgets figures but Tory plans for the NHS include lengthening waiting times for hospitals that currently make the target.

They intend to properly fuck the NHS.

 

[caLLous]

 

[Scouse]

Told you Diane Abbot was ill.

 

[Bodhi]

He forgets figures but Tory plans for the NHS include lengthening waiting times for hospitals that currently make the target.

They intend to properly fuck the NHS.

Some of the worst performances as far as waiting times are concerned are in Wales.

Tell me, who runs the NHS in Wales again?

 

[Raven]

Abbot gone, thank fuck for that.

Labour are back on the maybe list.

 

[Scouse]

Some of the worst performances as far as waiting times are concerned are in Wales.

Tell me, who runs the NHS in Wales again?

What? Are you campaigning for the Tories or something?

That article is about leaked plans about further funding cuts - for NHS managers to "think the unthinkable" - i.e. to deliberately cut services that are performing to their targets.

As for your (off-topic) point - Labour don't hold the national budget and as they've said, if they did then funding priority and amounts would change. But it takes nothing away from the original posted article - the Tories are going to fuck the NHS over good style.

 

[Bodhi]

What? Are you campaigning for the Tories or something?

That article is about leaked plans about further funding cuts - for NHS managers to "think the unthinkable" - i.e. to deliberately cut services that are performing to their targets.

As for your (off-topic) point - Labour don't hold the national budget and as they've said, if they did then funding priority and amounts would change. But it takes nothing away from the original posted article - the Tories are going to fuck the NHS over good style.

Maybe I just don't buy into the whole Labour are the saviours of the NHS bullshit? As I've said before, living in Stafford and having some fairly direct experience of Stafford Hospital in the mid-00's, you see a slightly different view of a Labour run NHS, which is why I'm thinking, never again.

 

[Scouse]

Even in the middle of all that pfi shite you still managed to come out alive tho eh?

 

[Bodhi]

Even in the middle of all that pfi shite you still managed to come out alive tho eh?

Only just.

I'll assume by that PFI shite you mean Winky signing us up to £300 billion of off balance sheet borrowing? Which is causing most of the NHS funding issues we are seeing now?

And I am well aware that Brown/Blair were "completely" different to Corbyn and his mates. They at least had half a clue in how economics works, this lot are dangerously clueless.

 

[Raven]

The PFI shit is just the tip of the iceberg, you need to have a look at some of the Tory WAGs to find out where the money is going.

 

[Gumbo]

I thought that they would bench Abbot, but a cabinet reshuffle the day before the election is interesting. She was clearly ill/incompetent though, and has been for longer than just this campaign.

 

[Raven]

She has always been a complete idiot, the "ill" thing is just an excuse, now she is in the public eye it has become obvious that she should stick to North London "politics"

 

[Bodhi]

From the looks of things, her replacement is even worse. Appears to be film of her on Twitter, barging a blind person out the way, suggesting they "get the fuck out her way".

No doubt all a Tory media smear campaign, natch.

 

[caLLous]

If it is, you're obviously lapping it up...

 

[Bodhi]

If it is, you're obviously lapping it up...

And if most of it is true?

 

[DaGaffer]

I worked in that industry for 12 years and went to Saudi, UAE and Oman as part of the those ME Region Sales deals training locals to use and look after it the equipment. I have not been part of it for 17 years. I think I am being quite objective and the News media we get here on ME Issues is far better than the diatribe of bad press you get in EU.

People stating Saudi is supporting terrorism is completely untrue. There are known individuals and groups that have and probably are but then there are many groups in UK and EU doing the same. Pretty much like the IRA used to do in the Irish pubs in London, "collecting for the boys" and dodgy charities.

Sorry, its widely acknowledged that Saudi funding of Wahhabi mosques and madrasas around the world has been a major contributor to the growth of Sunni Islamic fundamentalism over the last 50 years. The money to fund all that has come direct from the Saudi state. It may not have been their intention to for this to happen, but the outcome is the same and the funding hasn't stopped. There's a massive contradiction in Saudi, which means they're both the source of fundamentalism whilst at the same time being vital in fighting terrorism. Good article here; the Saudis are both the Arsonists and the firefighters. Which is more important, the Saudi contribution to combating terrorism or the Saudi contribution to creating terrorism? I'd argue the latter, even if the former make give short term benefits.

 

[Hawkwind]

Sorry, its widely acknowledged that Saudi funding of Wahhabi mosques and madrasas around the world has been a major contributor to the growth of Sunni Islamic fundamentalism over the last 50 years. The money to fund all that has come direct from the Saudi state. It may not have been their intention to for this to happen, but the outcome is the same and the funding hasn't stopped. There's a massive contradiction in Saudi, which means they're both the source of fundamentalism whilst at the same time being vital in fighting terrorism. Good article here; the Saudis are both the Arsonists and the firefighters. Which is more important, the Saudi contribution to combating terrorism or the Saudi contribution to creating terrorism? I'd argue the latter, even if the former make give short term benefits.

The Wahhabi are a powerful albeit minority group which are actually against the ruling King. As stated its not government level funding its minority groups and individuals. That is just bolx and bad reporting. I would agree that the Saudi's should do more to sort their shit out but Wahhabi do run entire regions of the Kingdom and we would likely be the first to complain if they went in hard against them.