Gender stuff

[Zarjazz]

Man = has a dick
Women = has a fanny
Apache gunship = has rotors.

Whats hard to understand?!

Maybe I'm too much of a techie but unless someone can change their DNA I will admit I have a hard time saying that a few nip & tucks means a sex change.

 

[Scouse]

The difference between sex and gender.

That is all.

 

[Deebs]

40 odd hours without sleep may have made my head a little fuzzy but I don't think I said people should automatically be willing to date a trans person. Also, no one I've spoken to and nothing I have seen has ever suggested that they want us to accept them as biologically male/female. What they're asking for, as you pointed out is to be accepted as legally male/female. They want the same rights across the board as cisgender people and they would really quite like to live their lives without fear of being physically attacked.

Um, no, unfortunately for me I decided to watch an episode of CBB where India (trans female) asked a guy if he would date a trans female and he was like "whoa no way", India then got in a fucking hissy state stating that she is a woman, well legally she might be, biologically she never will be, but the point is, surely it is a persons right to determine who they want to spend time with on a date etc?

Yeh go me watching an episode of CBB

 

[Wij]

Um, no, unfortunately for me I decided to watch an episode of CBB where India (trans female) asked a guy if he would date a trans female and he was like "whoa no way", India then got in a fucking hissy state stating that she is a woman, well legally she might be, biologically she never will be, but the point is, surely it is a persons right to determine who they want to spend time with on a date etc?

Yeh go me watching an episode of CBB

Poll: Who would give Deebs one if he had the op?

 

[DaGaffer]

The difference between sex and gender.

That is all.

Fascinating. Then you actually read it and find it’s just a load of arguments and not helpful at all.

 

[Scouse]

Fascinating. Then you actually read it and find it’s just a load of arguments and not helpful at all.

I didn't actually bother reading it

It was required reading for my archaeologist mates (read: nearly all of them) at University - the understanding of the difference between sex and gender is crucial for so much of their work that it was on the evening pub discussion topic regularly. I guess that's why I'm so blase about it all - I heard all this crap in the early 90's and figured it wouldn't be much of a shock to anyone.

But then, that's an argument between a shitload of really well educated people. Once joe public gets involved... :\

 

[Access Denied]

Um, no, unfortunately for me I decided to watch an episode of CBB where India (trans female) asked a guy if he would date a trans female and he was like "whoa no way", India then got in a fucking hissy state stating that she is a woman, well legally she might be, biologically she never will be, but the point is, surely it is a persons right to determine who they want to spend time with on a date etc?

Yeh go me watching an episode of CBB

Let me ask you a question. Say you meet someone and you're very attractred to her. You get to talking, you get along really well and you decide to ask her out on a date. She plucks up the courage to tell you she is trans. For the purpose of this exercise, we'll go with post-op. What do you do?

Ugh, I'm finding it really hard finding the right words to adequately get my point across. Being trans isn't a fucking lifestyle choice for one thing. It's no different than being gay. A trans woman is female, and trans man is male. Biology only enters into the equation in as much as they feel they were born the wrong sex. Trans people know without a shadow of a doubt that they are the opposite gender than the one assigned to them at birth. They know this from the moment they figure out the difference between male and female, somtimes even before that point.

I've said before that I'd have no problem dating a trans woman, in fact I'd have no problem doing pretty much everything bar having sex with them until they've had the op. Why? Because I don't find the penis to be sexually attractive. That's my perogative, my opinion and I won't take anyone elses away from them. However, refusing to even date someone you found attractive or have developed feelings for because you found out they're trans is at best ignorant, at worst transphobic. Bollocks I've gone off on a rant and maybe my point hasn't come across as well as I'd hoped but I don't care. I'm done with this thread. I'm so fucking disappointed that in this day and age, with all the information available, literally at our fingertips, there are still people ignorant enough to call it a fucking lifestyle choice.

Yes I have trans friends so I feel rather strongly on the subject.

 

[Scouse]

Let me ask you a question. Say you meet someone and you're very attractred to her. You get to talking, you get along really well and you decide to ask her out on a date. She plucks up the courage to tell you she is trans. For the purpose of this exercise, we'll go with post-op. What do you do?

Easy: Tell her I'm sorry that there's no future because even if she could have kids I was brought up in the 80's and going out with a biological female is important to me - and if that's a failing of mine then it's A) not one I can help and B) it's not a reflection of who she is.

If she's not a dick, she'd accept that and we'd part company amicably.


Edit: Of course, that's if the experience of going out with a trans female and finding her attractive didn't change my feelings. If it did, then perhaps it'd be a goer. But I've never been in that situation - so it's all speculation either way. I strongly suspect the above would apply though.

 

[Raven]

@Gwadien @Tom

There is another one.

 

[Raven]

Let me ask you a question. Say you meet someone and you're very attractred to her. You get to talking, you get along really well and you decide to ask her out on a date. She plucks up the courage to tell you she is trans. For the purpose of this exercise, we'll go with post-op. What do you do?

Ugh, I'm finding it really hard finding the right words to adequately get my point across. Being trans isn't a fucking lifestyle choice for one thing. It's no different than being gay. A trans woman is female, and trans man is male. Biology only enters into the equation in as much as they feel they were born the wrong sex. Trans people know without a shadow of a doubt that they are the opposite gender than the one assigned to them at birth. They know this from the moment they figure out the difference between male and female, somtimes even before that point.

I've said before that I'd have no problem dating a trans woman, in fact I'd have no problem doing pretty much everything bar having sex with them until they've had the op. Why? Because I don't find the penis to be sexually attractive. That's my perogative, my opinion and I won't take anyone elses away from them. However, refusing to even date someone you found attractive or have developed feelings for because you found out they're trans is at best ignorant, at worst transphobic. Bollocks I've gone off on a rant and maybe my point hasn't come across as well as I'd hoped but I don't care. I'm done with this thread. I'm so fucking disappointed that in this day and age, with all the information available, literally at our fingertips, there are still people ignorant enough to call it a fucking lifestyle choice.

Yes I have trans friends so I feel rather strongly on the subject.

Nobody is saying it is a lifestyle choice...

People are saying they would not sleep with someone that was previously biologically a man.

You are welcome to be offended if you like but its not going to change the fact that its just not going to happen.

edit, its not like anyone is suggesting they would shank the trans person, just that they wouldn't have sex with them. I imagine it would all be polite and whatever.

 

[Deebs]

Let me ask you a question. Say you meet someone and you're very attractred to her. You get to talking, you get along really well and you decide to ask her out on a date. She plucks up the courage to tell you she is trans. For the purpose of this exercise, we'll go with post-op. What do you do?

Tell her she is not my type and explain why. I only date biological females and that is my choice. Nothing to do with their gender. Doesn't make me transphobic.

Biology only enters into the equation in as much as they feel they were born the wrong sex.

Maybe for them, but biology enters into the equation when it comes to my feelings and who I choose to date, not just theirs. It works both ways and it is not just about trans people.

I don't get the fuss, if someone wants to change gender fine, it's their choice, if I don't want to date someone who has changed their gender, it's my choice. Everyone is happy, I am not going to criticize their decision as long as the person doesn't try to force it upon me.

 

[Wij]

Let me ask you a question. Say you meet someone and you're very attractred to her. You get to talking, you get along really well and you decide to ask her out on a date. She plucks up the courage to tell you she is trans. For the purpose of this exercise, we'll go with post-op. What do you do?

Ugh, I'm finding it really hard finding the right words to adequately get my point across. Being trans isn't a fucking lifestyle choice for one thing. It's no different than being gay. A trans woman is female, and trans man is male. Biology only enters into the equation in as much as they feel they were born the wrong sex. Trans people know without a shadow of a doubt that they are the opposite gender than the one assigned to them at birth. They know this from the moment they figure out the difference between male and female, somtimes even before that point.

I've said before that I'd have no problem dating a trans woman, in fact I'd have no problem doing pretty much everything bar having sex with them until they've had the op. Why? Because I don't find the penis to be sexually attractive. That's my perogative, my opinion and I won't take anyone elses away from them. However, refusing to even date someone you found attractive or have developed feelings for because you found out they're trans is at best ignorant, at worst transphobic. Bollocks I've gone off on a rant and maybe my point hasn't come across as well as I'd hoped but I don't care. I'm done with this thread. I'm so fucking disappointed that in this day and age, with all the information available, literally at our fingertips, there are still people ignorant enough to call it a fucking lifestyle choice.

Yes I have trans friends so I feel rather strongly on the subject.

Even if it was Deebs?

 

[old.user4556]

Poll: Who would give Deebs one if he had the op?

"the op" - you mean gender realignment, or nose job?

 

[Wij]

"the op" - you mean gender realignment, or nose job?

Nose job? No, that’s not an op. It’s a sexy act. Lady Deebs will be the first lady in pr0n to do a DVDADN (double vaginal, double anal, double nasal).

*fap*

 

[DaGaffer]

Let me ask you a question. Say you meet someone and you're very attractred to her. You get to talking, you get along really well and you decide to ask her out on a date. She plucks up the courage to tell you she is trans. For the purpose of this exercise, we'll go with post-op. What do you do?

Tell her politely that it’s not going to work. Because it isn’t. What are you supposed to do? Lie?

However, refusing to even date someone you found attractive or have developed feelings for because you found out they're trans is at best ignorant, at worst transphobic.

There you go. That’s exactly what I was talking about. First of all, why is it ignorant? As you don’t know the thinking behind it, you can’t make that claim. Second, claiming “at worst” transphobic, shows some really flawed thinking.

 

[Job]

Welcome to an ever incresing spectrum of human subsets that you can be phobic about.
It is quite obvious before the year is out, someone will be accused of being genderphobic for wishing their baby to be gender specific.

 

[old.user4556]

However, refusing to even date someone you found attractive or have developed feelings for because you found out they're trans is at best ignorant, at worst transphobic.

Yes I have trans friends so I feel rather strongly on the subject.

You are so fucking out of line on this.

Let me tell you where I am having been party to the dating game of Tinder / Bumble for a few months (and currently exclusively dating someone) - I feel that I am qualified to answer this. There's a very harsh truth about dating in 2017: no fucker is owe any other fucker any explanation for why they do, or do not want to date another human being. That's their choice, so don't throw around 'phobic' this and that.

• I don't date black people, because I do not want to date black people - that doesn't make me racist.
• I don't date religious people, because I do not want to date religious people, especially Muslims and Protestants - that doesn't make me an Islamophobe or sectarian.
• I don't date gingers, because I don't want to date a ginger person - that doesn't make me gingerist.
• I don't date fat people people, because I don't want to date a fat person - that doesn't make me fattist.
• I don't date overly skinny people, because I don't want to date an overly skinny person - that doesn't make me skinniest.

Attraction is a very complicated, fluid, fickle and varied subject; finding out about a person's past or personal choices can certainly alter your feelings and opinion towards them very early on in the dating process. Maybe they had a serious drug habit, maybe they're secretly a religious nutjob, maybe they have gender confusion, maybe they have mental health issues, maybe they have "tried being gay". If none of that works for you, you do not owe them an explanation, you tell them (exactly as @DaGaffer said) that it simply isn't going to work out. Christ, I sacked off someone I was dating because her laugh was too fucking annoying, if I knew someone used to be a man and wasn't capable of having my children I'd run for the fucking door.

I could go on. If someone wants to date a trans person, then great, go for your guns mate. Do not judge others that they don't want to / won't date a trans person, that's their fucking choice for whatever the reason. Jesus H.

 

[Wij]

"I thought you were sexy. I don’t now, you’re a bloke, I’ve got a good mind to knock your block off."
- Alan Partridge, 1994.

 

[MYstIC G]

Tell her she is not my type and explain why. I only date biological females and that is my choice. Nothing to do with their gender. Doesn't make me transphobic.


Maybe for them, but biology enters into the equation when it comes to my feelings and who I choose to date, not just theirs. It works both ways and it is not just about trans people.

I don't get the fuss, if someone wants to change gender fine, it's their choice, if I don't want to date someone who has changed their gender, it's my choice. Everyone is happy, I am not going to criticize their decision as long as the person doesn't try to force it upon me.

Like I said before T, you're really discussing people trying to force their standardisation of a label onto others, that's where it all comes apart.

Using your TV example, I know how 'woman' is defined in my mind, that doesn't stop that individual having their own view on that meaning but they'll never get me to take their viewpoint.

You could run this same example with the word being blue, rose, etc, etc. This is all just a dilution of the meaning of words which are fluid anyway.

Oh and someone mentioned something about being offended or words to that effect. I've come to the realisation lately that people choose what they are offended by. If people spent more time choosing not to be offended they'd probably be happier.

 

[Hawkwind]

Who does that?

Fuckwits like this:
"Would you date someone who's trans, black, fat, or disabled? If your answer is no... that's pretty discriminatory and hurtful. In this video, I explain why that is."

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X-PgHSZh6U

Or this

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sMH7dSbKaA


Plenty of examples

 

[old.user4556]

THAT ADAM’S APPLE

 

[Job]

Altrincham girls grammar school has banned all staff from calling the pupils girls, so as not to offend non genders..etc.etc.
They won't be changing the name of the school...whatever...
Only 3 papers have reported this Sun/Mirror/Mail.
The entire press outside of the usual culprits is on the run, scared to even mention it now, this story would have been headline news across the board 20 years ago, I don't know if it's just the norm now, so a non news story..or the issue has become so polarised that ignoring it is the safest bet.


Just a browse over its policies gives you an insight to how schools have become legalised and jargoned by helicopter parents, focus groups and knee jerk political reactions.

Policies and procedures | Altrincham Grammar School for Girls

 

[Raven]

THAT ADAM’S APPLE

Hot as fuck, right?

 

[old.user4556]

Hot as fuck, right?

*CRIES IN PHOBIC*

 

[Tom]

Fuckwits like this:
"Would you date someone who's trans, black, fat, or disabled? If your answer is no... that's pretty discriminatory and hurtful. In this video, I explain why that is."

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X-PgHSZh6U

Or this

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sMH7dSbKaA


Plenty of examples

But neither of those people say you have to be attracted to a trans person, and neither claims that you're a Nazi. So my question stands. The first person is simply saying that your preferences might be based on underlying prejudices learnt from society, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to say. She even says (at 3:55) that she won't tell you that you have to be attracted to someone you're not attracted to - you've actually presented us with a video that doesn't support your claim. And the second video, at 1:33 she says that in her opinion, preferring not to date trans people is not transphobic, just ignorant. Which is a slightly more harsh position than the first woman but she still isn't saying you must be attracted to her, and she doesn't say that you're a Nazi if you don't.

So why did you post those videos?

 

[Bodhi]

I suspect I'll get accused of every phobia under the sun, however there is a lot about this I just don't understand why it is even a thing.

So a man decides he wants to be a woman (and vice versa). This, to me, is fairly normal, has been going on for years. Not a problem. I wouldn't date someone who has had the surgery as I'm not big on Adam's apples, would perhaps like to have kids one day and like a good pair of norks (I didn't date flat chested women either, just my preference), however if someone has thought about it long and hard and still wants to go through with it, go for it.

Where I start to get a little confused is all this gender fluid nonsense, where it appears you can change on a whim, to one of the many new (made up) genders that have now appeared. For instance someone I know's little sister decided she was going to be Pansexual, so (apparently) attracted to anyone no matter their gender. Pretty sure we used to call that Bisexuality, and that was a sexual preference, not a gender. I know a certain political half of the spectrum loves a pidgeon hole, but 81 of them, mostly all nonsensical? Really?

And then there is "transgender" kids, forced down a certain path by their parents, just for being a boy who plays with dolls, or what we used to call a tomboy. Seems much more sensible to make these sorts of decisions when they are grown ups and have been through puberty, otherwise I can see a few "transgender" kids getting to adulthood and hating their parents. I suppose they are a bit like vegan cats, you can see who is making the decisions there....

 

[old.user4556]

Such a simpler time when it was poofs and faggots.

 

[old.user4556]

JOKES FS

 

[Raven]

#twittercampaign #wrists

 

[Scouse]

Or this

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sMH7dSbKaA

I watched this one (because urgh, the first!, my eyes!) and she made a few fair points and basically said "don't waste your time worrying over it".

Yeah, she called people who say they'd never date trans people "ignorant" - which tbh I can accept is arguable because people who say that would sometimes change their mind after experience (like in the same way that racist people often realise how daft they were when they've actually had experience living in a multicultural and ethnically diverse area).

Either way, it doesn't really fit with your assertion. I'd go so far to say as you posted a video that flatly contradicts your own point of view.