G20 - London

[Scouse]

What is it about you two? Do you just not bother reading? It was neither violent during the protest in that area and *one* bottle was thrown - missing by a mile and resulting in the rest of the protesters getting the guy to stop...

 

[Mey]

I hear four police officers have come forward in regards to the incidient.

 

[tierk]

I have a healthy respect for the Police in their everyday work, it is a thankless task. That said it is with due cause that the reputation of the police force is being demeaned and this incident is just another in a long line of incidents of excess police force used against the public.

I spent a good amount of time demonstrating while living in London and i have that gradually the police were getting to be more and more heavy handed, rude, obstructive and having a attitude that they did not have to account for their actions.

This hasn't and always was the case with police dealing with demonstrations -peaceful or not. They have become this way gradually as their powers have been increased slowly but surely. The gradual increase of powers can be seen to be directly related to the increase in this attittude.

One of the things that i feel would make the situation more acceptable for the general public is to change the way that complaints are and have always been handled. There has hardly been any change in real terms when the old PCA - Police Complaints Authority - was done away with and replaced by the IPCC - Independent Police Complaints Commision.

You dont get independence by just giving a department or body the name independent blah blah blah. There needs to be real independence and a mechanism for having outside bodies - totally independent of the police - doing the investigations. I cannot be the only one who thinks that it might not be a good idea having police investigating complaints against the police.

The current situation clearly doesnt work as shown by the resignation of a large number of lawyers dealing with cases being investigated by the IPCC. Clearly something is not right when the very lawyers they have employed for the advisory board resigned

citing criticisms of the IPCC including a pattern of favouritism towards the police, indifference and rudeness towards complainants and complaints being rejected in spite of apparently powerful evidence in their support

There will be another load of hype in the press and then the whole procedure will be strung out for another 3 years and the whole of this case will be become ancient history - as people will become fatigued from reading all the press reports over the coming monnths /years - and then as always another white wash with noone punished and no significant changes to either: the way complaints against the police are handled or the way that the police act in these types of situations.

 

[Raven]

What is it about you two? Do you just not bother reading? It was neither violent during the protest in that area and *one* bottle was thrown - missing by a mile and resulting in the rest of the protesters getting the guy to stop...

Don't worry, I agree the policeman responsible should be convicted of assault in the very least. Though I generally don't agree that all policeman are *****, yes some will be and with a position of power will abuse it. They are only human.

Can you imagine what it would be like without the police?

As for the demonstrators most of them are *****. They are probably only pissed off because daddy reigned in the credit cards. They will forget all about it once they get back to Surrey.

 

[Zenith]

Really I cant understand your arrogance Raven. Havent it struck you that the majority of the G20 protests have been in a peaceful manner, and there is loads of reason to go protest against the current state of the monetary system?

 

[Scouse]

It's easier for him not to actually think Zen.

Channel 4 coverage, shows the batton hit, the push and alleges that "loads" of people were hit without provocation by the police - including the channel 4 news crew

 

[JingleBells]

It's easier for him not to actually think Zen.

Channel 4 coverage, shows the batton hit, the push and alleges that "loads" of people were hit without provocation by the police - including the channel 4 news crew

I think this nicely sums everything up:
Police medic in job creation scheme - Chicken Yoghurt

 

[Will]

Police "restoring calm" in the protests.

Al Jazeera English - News

YouTube - Riot police attack peaceful protesters at G20 Climate Camp

 

[nath]

The police need a pretty fucking good explanation for the behaviour displayed in that vid.

 

[Mey]

So leaving the gentlemans death to one side for a moment.

All the people slagging off the policing, how would you police such a large event with a high chance of violence and disorder?

 

[nath]

I've absolutely no idea to be honest, though I expect a good way to increase chances of violence and disorder is to start swinging bats at people with their hands in the air shouting "this is not a riot".

I'd also have no idea how to do a good stand-up set at a comedy club, but that doesn't stop be from knowing that Bobby Davro is shit.

 

[Will]

They seem to be trying as hard as they can to escalate the situation, which looked pretty peaceful when it started. Same with the Al-Jazeera link.

Though these are pretty typical tactics for large protests. Kettling is common tbh. It still doesn't make it right. I could rant for a while, but I cba.

 

[Zenith]

So leaving the gentlemans death to one side for a moment.

All the people slagging off the policing, how would you police such a large event with a high chance of violence and disorder?

Do you, with your full sanity behind your argument, think that its a good idea to push forward into a big crowd, who have done Nothing wrong ( as diplayed in that video ) swinging both your bats and shield, being the only one actually using violence, as a way to decrease the chance of disorder happening?

 

[Scouse]

I'd also have no idea how to do a good stand-up set at a comedy club, but that doesn't stop be from knowing that Bobby Davro is shit.

Class

Same can be applied to a few arguments

 

[rynnor]

Do you, with your full sanity behind your argument, think that its a good idea to push forward into a big crowd, who have done Nothing wrong ( as diplayed in that video ) swinging both your bats and shield, being the only one actually using violence, as a way to decrease the chance of disorder happening?

They were clearing a public road - and not just any road but practically the busiest road in the area.

Why were the protestors camped on that spot? To cause maximum disruption - theres a line where legitimate protest turns into simple criminal actions and this was it.

As for the chants of 'this is not a riot' - if I shout 'this is not a murder' while stabbing someone through the heart would that mean I could get away with it and the police shouldnt interfere?

 

[Jaberwocky]

Rynnor's quite correct, the policed allowed the protester's to make their point even though it blocked the busiest section of road Central London. After several hours and after being asked multipliable times to clear the a public thoroughfare the policed moved in to clear the protesters from the area.

Shouting out "this is not a riot" while still reaching out to block and restrain a police officer in the course of their duties is still a crime and a well aimed smack with a truncheon is a great motivator, of course a more efficient way of clearing the area as demonstrated by the French and German policed a day later would have been to tear gasses the lot of them.

The police take a lot of sick when things go wrong, but remain largely unthanked when things go well while remaining heavily moderated by internal and external sources, along with what remains of our free press (the ones that aren't own by media moguls with political agendas).

The G20 demonstration where largely well policed, the majority of the complains come for people who weren't allowed to do what the ever the fuck they wanted which included disrupting as many peoples working day as possible, which I add in not covered in the right to protest.

After all as I quote " Everyone in a suit is a fair target"

 

[Scouse]

Blocking a public roadway in peaceful protest is NOT a riot. Disrupting working people's days is a political right and absolutely to be defended.

You guys are government cock-sucking fools!

 

[Jaberwocky]

To quote one protester when interviewed as to what he was protesting about "I don't know, it's good fun though an't it".


Half the pre pubescent hooded goon's, waving to the camera's were UCL students....ah the battle cry of the student masses

"Rebel now!!! Conform later!!!"

If 1/10 of them hung on to any moral conviction once they matured and stepped into positions of power the world might be a different place.

Hypercritical little shits.

 

[rynnor]

Blocking a public roadway in peaceful protest is NOT a riot. Disrupting working people's days is a political right and absolutely to be defended.

Whatever - I'd lay big money your just an armchair activist paying lip service but you'd be the first hypocrit to complain if anything disrupted your day

 

[adams901]

From what I see, there were quite a few people lashing out and then holding their arms up.

When I'm out next I might punch someone in the face then hold my arms in the air shouting "im not a fighter"

 

[nath]

Dunno, I saw it slightly differently. I saw them getting beaten by the cops and then trying to push the cops back/push away the batons.

 

[Ctuchik]

Blocking a public roadway in peaceful protest is NOT a riot. Disrupting working people's days is a political right and absolutely to be defended.

You guys are government cock-sucking fools!

but trying to actively stop the police attempts at breaking said "peaceful protest" MAKES it a riot.

and why the hell should honest ppl that just try to get to work suffer because some mentally underaged crackpots wanna play red square on the streets?

 

[nath]

Refusing to move does *not* make it a riot by any stretch of the imagination. It just doesn't.

The right to protest is something we should all be cheering, whether we agree with what they're protesting about or not. I'm all to aware of how snippets of videos can give completely the wrong impression, but the vids here seem to show the police being totally unnecessarily aggressive. I can appreciate it wasn't easy for them, but it's their fucking job. If they're not willing to deal with these situations with a level head then they shouldn't be wearing the uniform.

 

[Jupitus]

Point is, they didn't just refuse to move or stay still... they responded to shouts of 'FORWARD NOW!!!' and surged at the police lines.

 

[Raven]

I blame the public education!

 

[Vae]

BBC NEWS | UK | G20 death was not heart attack

And now the independent coroner has said the cause of death of Ian Tomlinson was abdominal haemorrhage and the officer concerned has been "interviewed under caution for the offence of manslaughter".

 

[megadave]

Heh, funny how the original coroner mistook it as a heart attack.

That policeman is pretty much fucked now, no sympathy from me.


Met up with some of my friends who were at the protests a few nights ago. Some of them got caught up in the kettle. One of them who is about as innocent as young ladies goes, after being penned in for several hours with no supplies and being rammed by police ended up shouting at them and getting her head smashed in by a truncheon oO

She has a great big scar now but is taking it to a tribunal. Police aren't even allowed to hit on the head if they are being assaulted themselves.

 

[Mey]

Police aren't even allowed to hit on the head if they are being assaulted themselves.

I don't think that is actually true.

 

[rynnor]

Im losing all sympathy for that woman who got slapped - shes gone to Max Clifford (Satan himself) to sell her story for as much as possible and she comes accross in interview as a braindead idiot.

Funny how these anti-capitalists still like the look of a big payout

"If the policeman had wanted me to move he could have asked politely" - yeah right

In the middle of a riot when the womans ranting at him?

I saw a longer version of the clip where she gets slapped today and from that angle the 'slap' looked more accidental after they had been pushing each other.

 

[Jaberwocky]

Heh, funny how the original coroner mistook it as a heart attack.

That policeman is pretty much fucked now, no sympathy from me.

Come one, if you're going to comment on this read up on all of it, the man had a massively damaged heart and liver (long term alcohol abuse) the first autopsy wrote it off as a heart attack. The second autopsy found large amounts of blood in abdominal cavity due to the above conditions the debate now will be was this caused by the fall?

It's already been shown that the man had contact with the police line quite a few times, he had to restrained once and escorted away, all because he couldn't take the hint and walk around the police line rather than try to walk through it.
Now he's a martyr for the G20 protesters, it shows what a farce the whole thing was to begin with.

Police aren't even allowed to hit on the head if they are being assaulted themselves.

They can do anything with in reason.

"Fuck you coppers, we own you, you can't do a thing about it!!! Oh crap they're hitting back, that's not allowed!!"

Protest peacefully and very little can go wrong, stand there hurling abuse and jostling a police line for 3 hours and I won't be surprised when a few tertiary volunteer police officers snap.