Rant Fucking unions

[Hawkwind]

Why does Deebs hate onions?

Because most of the time they care more about the political agenda than they do their own members. Certainly the case when I was with the AEU and to a lessor extent MSF. Going on strike when the country is going down the toilet is crazy. Whilst with the AEU we famously walked out due to a manager switching on lights in the machine shop! This at the same time the company was restructuring and laying off 200 people. That is the mirror reading mentality they have. Was enough for me to quit with them.

Public services moaned for years about getting salaries on par with the private sector but at the same time kept their amazing public sector pensions and benefits. You campaigned for parity now live with it!

 

[caLLous]

What's all that got to do with onions though? :\

 

[old.Tohtori]

Can't beet a good misread

 

[Reno]

Yup they turnip all over the place.

 

[caLLous]

Lettuce get back to the original topic.

 

[Calaen]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/polit...-strike-action-explained-to-him-201203014960/

 

[Tom]

The Mash has written some seriously unfunny articles of late, and I see nothing to indicate that'll be stopping any time soon.

 

[Scouse]

First time I've seen anyone have a pop at the mash. It's amusing that you don't find it funny - probably because it's directly at odds with your political beliefs and effectively has a pop at you because of that...


OK. Lets be serious and ask these two questions about strikes from all the strike-haters:

1) When is it appropriate to strike?
2) What is it appropriate to take strike action over?

?

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I don't find the mash funny, usually because it tries too hard and is too obvious most of the time. I wouldn't say it's anything to do with political leaning, more that it doesn't make me laugh.

 

[Job]

Did anyone watch that program where they let a street take over their own community charge, they had to colllect it and dole it out (no pun intended) just as the council do.
An eye opener for everyone involved, for every pound you take in there's 3 quids worth to spend.
The reality is the public sector is overall poorly paid, I was paid more than my mum's boss and she was in charge of a whole tax collecting section.
As for back on topic, I think he's just sounding off and striking during the Olympics would kill investment in Britain, but of course unions are good at shooting themselves in the foot.
TBH though I couldn't give fuck about the Olympics and if they cancelled it next week I'd be ..meh.

 

[Tom]

Well I'm working on the village for the next week so I'm not complaining. I'll post some photographs, if anyone's interested.

 

[Gwadien]

Did anyone watch that program where they let a street take over their own community charge, they had to colllect it and dole it out (no pun intended) just as the council do.
An eye opener for everyone involved, for every pound you take in there's 3 quids worth to spend.
The reality is the public sector is overall poorly paid, I was paid more than my mum's boss and she was in charge of a whole tax collecting section.
As for back on topic, I think he's just sounding off and striking during the Olympics would kill investment in Britain, but of course unions are good at shooting themselves in the foot.
TBH though I couldn't give fuck about the Olympics and if they cancelled it next week I'd be ..meh.

Yeah! I watched that! - was brilliant, a tad OTT at times though - like when they turned the street lights off, the gang of youts automatically found the street and starting playing music from a car - huzzah!

Was a touchy subject about the woman who wasn't working, on how they reacted to her!

 

[Access Denied]

There appears to be at least one advantage to working for a supermarket chain. I get a pay rise every year regardless and my job is safe because everyone has to eat

 

[gohan]

until we're overrun by robots o0

 

[Turamber]

Far too many people judge issues on either emotive reasons or subjective ones. I'm not in a Union, never have been. I've not had a payrise for three years because of the shit economy.

But I recognise that, overall, Unions have made a huge contribution to western society and I'm not going to cry into my cornflakes because somebody exercises their right to strike and inconveniences me.

 

[throdgrain]

I thought I'd change my sig.

 

[Lamp]

If they want extra money during the busy period, would they agree to a pay cut on Sundays?

Bob Crow: on one hand he goes on about the plight of the proletariat, and on the other hand takes a salary of almost a fifth of a million pounds and takes £600 lunches. If he was that dedicated to the plight of the dispossessed and downtrodden working class he'd do the job for £50K.

 

[Scouse]

Nobody fancy answering either of the questions I posed?

1) When is it appropriate to strike?
2) What is it appropriate to take strike action over?

 

[TdC]

you should add 3) what would an appropriate method/plan be?

 

[opticle]

Nobody fancy answering either of the questions I posed?

I'm not the one to answer this one Tbh, in basic terms the answer to (1) Is the same as (2), except in extreme circumstances that make it unjustified and idiotic, e.g. war, famine(, recession).

Tbh, everyone has different points of view and as always I think there's always a lot more going on for each side of the argument than the other realises. No point getting upset.. whatever happens will happen. These days I feel pretty powerless to change anything if I don't like it, so that's probably why I always instinctively support people willing to stand up for something they believe.

The public sector is frequently treated like balls however - we definitely don't have the parity someone else mentioned. Those extra bits are what makes the job worth doing and what attracts qualified people.

And stemming from all this, the other reason the public sector is fucked is because these days it attracts fucking idiots. All the good managers go to the private sector, because it's *better*. We are left in many cases, particularly in smaller/non-city areas, with the dogsbodies. And it's a mess. And that carries on into the shop floor too - i.e. health service, police service, etc... which isn't great for anyone really.

 

[soze]

Nobody fancy answering either of the questions I posed?

For me
1) When is it appropriate to strike?
Depends on the job. If you provide a "crucial" public service then a total walk out should never be allowed. Working to rule, refusing overtime ect fine, but a total denial of service no. You knew what the job was when you took it so denying that service for me is unacceptable.
But if you work for Ford where going on strike will hurt the bottom line but not hurt thousands of people who are not involved then when ever you like.

2) What is it appropriate to take strike action over?
With my answer to point 1 in mind then you can strike over what ever 90% of the work force want to strike over.

 

[Scouse]

you should add 3) what would an appropriate method/plan be?

Don't think so. Withdrawal of labour is withdrawal of labour.

You stop working. You march or picket or even just stay at home. The important thing is you stop working.

Depends on the job. If you provide a "crucial" public service then a total walk out should never be allowed. Working to rule, refusing overtime ect fine, but a total denial of service no. You knew what the job was when you took it so denying that service for me is unacceptable.

Yep. Say that, when you took the job, they said "you'll get a great pension, you get to retire early and we'll pay you above the national average wage - but for that you have to give up your right to strike". You go "fine".

Then they go "you'll get a 3rd off your pension, you'll take home less money and we'll devalue your wage through inflation" then you're right to go "fuck off - that's not what I signed up to - I'm going on fucking strike, you lying lying cunts"...

 

[soze]

Yep. Say that, when you took the job, they said "you'll get a great pension, you get to retire early and we'll pay you above the national average wage - but for that you have to give up your right to strike". You go "fine".

Then they go "you'll get a 3rd off your pension, you'll take home less money and we'll devalue your wage through inflation" then you're right to go "fuck off - that's not what I signed up to - I'm going on fucking strike, you lying lying cunts"...

If my employer decides to change my wages or my massive pension do you know what I can do with out giving thousands of unrelated people the shaft?

 

[Scouse]

If my employer decides to change my wages or my massive pension do you know what I can do with out giving thousands of unrelated people the shaft?

No. Making yourself unemployed is NOT an option. People have lives, mortgages, children. In many cases they've been to university for these jobs, trained for years, they've taken a big leap of faith and committed themselves. Time, money, sweat and toil. Significantly changing their terms and conditions on them is a fucking awful thing to do.


It amazes me how little sympathy people have for the workers. People like you and me who aren't rich and never will be. Yet mention taxing the rich, or setting a limit and they jump all over you - because you're pissing on their shitty ridiculous dream that one day they're going to make it big - when they're not.

 

[soze]

No. Making yourself unemployed is NOT an option. People have lives, mortgages, children. In many cases they've been to university for these jobs, trained for years, they've taken a big leap of faith and committed themselves. Time, money, sweat and toil. Significantly changing their terms and conditions on them is a fucking awful thing to do.


It amazes me how little sympathy people have for the workers. People like you and me who aren't rich and never will be. Yet mention taxing the rich, or setting a limit and they jump all over you - because you're pissing on their shitty ridiculous dream that one day they're going to make it big - when they're not.

You do not have to quit on the day you can look for a new job.

And my view is simple (and selfish), I do not care what happens unless it effects me. Public sector and these huge pensions they do not contribute enough to earn that money which means my taxes are subsidising a pension I will never have. So I am sorry but I see no reason to be guilty for feeling that way.

 

[Scouse]

And my view is simple (and selfish)

...fair enough

 

[rynnor]

...fair enough

But the Unions are acting in pure self interest too so there is no high moral ground here.

 

[Scouse]

But the Unions are acting in pure self interest too so there is no high moral ground here.

It's not the union that would be striking. It's the people who are being shafted...

 

[Embattle]

Unions sucked in the past, they suck in the present and they'll no doubt suck in the future.

 

[rynnor]

It's not the union that would be striking. It's the people who are being shafted...

But they are acting in self interest/selfishness too - only difference is that they are willing to screw others in their own interests.