Forum fun...

[throdgrain]

I dont think I said how I feel about it

How I feel about it is that it's nonsense that they should ban pistols and semi-auto firearms in this country.

They banned pistols because a peodophile went mental and killed a classroom of children and their teacher in Scotland with his legally held handgun.If there is such a thing as hell I hope that bastard is burning in it right now.

But the point was there was glaring evidence beforehand that he was completely mad anyway, and the Scotish police did nothing about it until it was too late. So now I have to pay for this scum bags crime, and for the ineptitude of the Scottish police, by not having the opportunity to shoot pistols any more.

Oh well, I dont even know why I'm typing this, no one will read it anyway.

Signing out.

 

[Raven]

I read it and I agree. Blanket punishment is retarded.

 

[uxxxxbanflaglerchat]

I don't suppose any of you fancy having a bit of a forum raid over on an American board do you?

A mate of mine frequents there and asked me to ask you guys if you wanted to 'raid' them.

There's a couple of threads going about on there that are basically comparing cock sizes. (we've got the best tanks, we've got the best dental care, my cock is bigger than yours).

I wouldn't normally bother even thinking of asking, as it's not really in my nature to out looking for trouble.

I know a few of you on here can give some nice debates, and some flaming arguements, and over there pretty much anything goes.

Anyway, if you can be arsed to stick up for Europe and the UK, go have a look.

The site is FlameWarriors.net (The title states the obvious!)

PHAGg CENTROLL

 

[Masherbrum]

I don't suppose any of you fancy having a bit of a forum raid over on an American board do you?

A mate of mine frequents there and asked me to ask you guys if you wanted to 'raid' them.

There's a couple of threads going about on there that are basically comparing cock sizes. (we've got the best tanks, we've got the best dental care, my cock is bigger than yours).

I wouldn't normally bother even thinking of asking, as it's not really in my nature to out looking for trouble.

I know a few of you on here can give some nice debates, and some flaming arguements, and over there pretty much anything goes.

Anyway, if you can be arsed to stick up for Europe and the UK, go have a look.

The site is FlameWarriors.net (The title states the obvious!)

It seems a few of you are afraid. This couldn't be a "Regional" issue? You guys afraid of some "Yanks"?

 

[Jail Bait]

I felt this way about my little island of Bermuda. Up until a year ago you could count on the fingers of two hands the total number of gun deaths.

We just had ANOTHER shooting this morning at 4am. Give Bermuda gun crime a google and keep in mind the fact that we are a TINY little island that should logically be able to completely control the imporatation of weapons and they have been banned since the 1970s.

How is that possible

you have no guns.

 

[Jail Bait]

I dont think I said how I feel about it

How I feel about it is that it's nonsense that they should ban pistols and semi-auto firearms in this country.

They banned pistols because a peodophile went mental and killed a classroom of children and their teacher in Scotland with his legally held handgun.If there is such a thing as hell I hope that bastard is burning in it right now.

But the point was there was glaring evidence beforehand that he was completely mad anyway, and the Scotish police did nothing about it until it was too late. So now I have to pay for this scum bags crime, and for the ineptitude of the Scottish police, by not having the opportunity to shoot pistols any more.

Oh well, I dont even know why I'm typing this, no one will read it anyway.

Signing out.

That is the knee jerk way of getting things banned.

Much like 9/11 made a lot of people give up more FREEDOM

 

[Airhead]

Sorry to disappoint, but there's a serious shortage of criminal guns in the U.K.

To the point where people convert replicas and deactivated pistols, mostly to fire one shot at a time, for these kiddie gangsters in London Liverpool Manchester kind of areas.

Also to the point where legal gun owners like myself are advised to be extra diligent as criminals try to steal ligitimate shotguns for criminal use. In fact someone I know had an attempted theft when leaving a clay pigeon ground near Dartford recently.

As far as shooting legitimately, there's ups and downs.

Pistols are off-limits pretty much to everyone. There are a few people who have them for humane dispatch (deer hunting) but that is rare. This I find terrible, having shot lots of pistols in the old days, but thats how it is.

Shotguns, you need a licence, but these arnt too hard to get really. The police, who issue the licence, have to prove a valid reason for you not to own one. Indeed, I have some criminal convictions to be honest, which I beleive in the USA means I could never ligitimately own a gun, but over here I have a licence no probs. Once you have it, and it has to be renewed every 5 years, you can buy as many shotguns as you like, no wait period either. I currently own a Remington 870 Wingmaster, and a Remington 1100.

Rifles are more of a pain in the arse. Anything bigger than a .22 has to be single shot. So bolt action, or what shooters over here call "straight pull". Lots of people I know own M4 and M16s, and clones, all converted to straight pull, or in .22 cal as a semi auto. .17 HMR is also a very popular calibre over here. A licence is slightly harder to get, you have to prove a need for one, but this can be anything from membership of a .22 rifle club, to having permission for enough land to be able to shoot on. There is pretty much no such thing as "public" shooting land in Great Britain.

Me, I shot rifles for years and years, but they bore me nowadays frankly, I'll stick with my shotguns.

Moderators, incidentally, although very hard to get in the States, are easy here, you just put it on your licence. Hell I have one on an air rifle that I shoot in the garden occasionally.

Go figure

Interesting. Here (in California) rifles are OK but they cannot hava a magazine capacity over 10 rounds, or a pistol grip, or a bayonet lug. Full autos are forbidden, as are silencers and muzzle flash suppressors. (Too military like.)

Handguns are allowed, provided they're registered, and concealed carry permits either are, or are not, available depending upon your county of residence and completion of a weekend course. Here I'm friends with the Sheriff so I'm approved.

My "daily" gun is a Glock 27. I also have a Ruger in 22 caliber, a 357 Magnum and an antique nickel plated Smith and Wesson Russian .44 that's been rechambered for 22 single shot for target shooting.

Long guns include a 22 semi auto rifle, a couple of 12 ga shotguns (I love trap shooting) and a 270 Win. bolt action.

My next rifle purchase will be an M1 Garand- "the rifle that won WW2." (Just kidding, was trying to get a rise out of ya.)

I live almost across the street from a gun club of which I am a member, and I am a member of the National Rifle Association.

Our 2nd amendment rights are being eroded, and in Cal a new law is going into effect that requires ID's and recording of all ammo purchases. In spite of my liberal political POV, and I am FAR from being a right wing fire breathing gun nut bigot, I oppose restrictions on gun ownership based upon one simple truth-

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Much like 9/11 made a lot of people give up more FREEDOM

Freedom should always be secondary to safety. Not gonna enjoy that freedom of yours if you're dead.

 

[Raven]

No, it shouldn't.

 

[Jail Bait]

Freedom should always be secondary to safety. Not gonna enjoy that freedom of yours if you're dead.

So you would be OK with your government locking you in a padded room for you Safety?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Doesn't mean they can do anything, you have to use that thing inside your skull.

 

[throdgrain]

Interesting. Here (in California) rifles are OK but they cannot hava a magazine capacity over 10 rounds, or a pistol grip, or a bayonet lug. Full autos are forbidden, as are silencers and muzzle flash suppressors. (Too military like.)

Handguns are allowed, provided they're registered, and concealed carry permits either are, or are not, available depending upon your county of residence and completion of a weekend course. Here I'm friends with the Sheriff so I'm approved.

My "daily" gun is a Glock 27. I also have a Ruger in 22 caliber, a 357 Magnum and an antique nickel plated Smith and Wesson Russian .44 that's been rechambered for 22 single shot for target shooting.

Long guns include a 22 semi auto rifle, a couple of 12 ga shotguns (I love trap shooting) and a 270 Win. bolt action.

My next rifle purchase will be an M1 Garand- "the rifle that won WW2." (Just kidding, was trying to get a rise out of ya.)

I live almost across the street from a gun club of which I am a member, and I am a member of the National Rifle Association.

Our 2nd amendment rights are being eroded, and in Cal a new law is going into effect that requires ID's and recording of all ammo purchases. In spite of my liberal political POV, and I am FAR from being a right wing fire breathing gun nut bigot, I oppose restrictions on gun ownership based upon one simple truth-

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

You and me would get along just fine

Tohtori, I disagree with you completely on that one.

 

[StRaNgEdAyS]

Freedom is safety.
How safe is safe? How safe would you feel with cameras keeping you under constant surveillance? How safe would you feel knowing your every move on the internet, every text you send, every phone conversation you have is being recorded by your Government and kept for review any time they feel fit?
How safe would you feel knowing that every financial transaction you make goes into a giant database to be shared with creditors, taxation agencies and anyone else who is deemed fit?
How safe do you feel knowing that if your home is invaded by violent criminals who know you have no serious means of defence the police will be there to clean up the mess after they have left? If you're lucky they perpetrators will have been captured on one of the many cameras popping up in your neighbourhood, so they may well be arrested for raping your wife while you were getting beaten and robbed. Still, it's a bit like closing the door after the horse has bolted isn't it?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Tohtori, I disagree with you completely on that one.

Feel free to do so.

 

[Krazeh]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

While I do agree with this to an extent I think it must always be remembered that the gun does significantly help.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Freedom is safety.
How safe is safe? How safe would you feel with cameras keeping you under constant surveillance? How safe would you feel knowing your every move on the internet, every text you send, every phone conversation you have is being recorded by your Government and kept for review any time they feel fit?
How safe would you feel knowing that every financial transaction you make goes into a giant database to be shared with creditors, taxation agencies and anyone else who is deemed fit?
How safe do you feel knowing that if your home is invaded by violent criminals who know you have no serious means of defence the police will be there to clean up the mess after they have left? If you're lucky they perpetrators will have been captured on one of the many cameras popping up in your neighbourhood, so they may well be arrested for raping your wife while you were getting beaten and robbed. Still, it's a bit like closing the door after the horse has bolted isn't it?

Well all apart the silly "they rape your wife" argument, i wouldn't mind. They can freely check all my transactions and have me on camera 24/7 if they want, i got nothing to hide.

Also you conviniently forgot from your example that with such control, criminal activity would be down too, so if it prevented my home from being invaded and my poodle shot, then it's good.

Why do you lot always take things into extremes to "prove" a point.

"I don't like strawberries"
"Child rapers don't like strawberries either!!"

 

[Wazzerphuk]

The real issue is that in legal systems you are supposed to be considered innocent until proved guilty.

It seems now this is slowly reversing into considered guilty until no proof can be found after searching for it..

 

[StRaNgEdAyS]

Well all apart the silly "they rape your wife" argument, i wouldn't mind. They can freely check all my transactions and have me on camera 24/7 if they want, i got nothing to hide.

Also you conviniently forgot from your example that with such control, criminal activity would be down too, so if it prevented my home from being invaded and my poodle shot, then it's good.

Why do you lot always take things into extremes to "prove" a point.

"I don't like strawberries"
"Child rapers don't like strawberries either!!"

So you'd have no problem with being treated like a suspect in your own country? That old argument about having nothing to hide is pretty bland.
Personally I'd find it offensive.
I have a pretty unique insight into the way a criminal mind works, and I can assure you, control like this would not dter criminal activity. Generally, most criminals don't even consider getting caught. Even the most heavily surveyed areas provide no deterrent, a fact borne out by the lack of a decline in criminal activity in London. The fact is, if they wish to burgle your house and shoot your poodle, no number of cameras is going to prevent that. Only you by means of personal security has that power. With no means of providing that beyond fortification you are fighting a losing battle. Even the knowledge that you could have a firearm in the house is a strong deterrent.
I took an extreme example simply because the Government use extreme examples to take your freedoms away, and many swallow that reasoning without question.

 

[StRaNgEdAyS]

Oh, and Pat, blow me you impotent little pustule.

 

[old.Tohtori]

So you'd have no problem with being treated like a suspect in your own country? That old argument about having nothing to hide is pretty bland.

I took an extreme example simply because the Government use extreme examples to take your freedoms away, and many swallow that reasoning without question.

Surveillance doesn't equal that you're treated like a suspect.

It might be bland to you, but it's still a fact. Got nothing to hdie so they can look at my morning wank all they want.

I haven't lost one freedom that would make me lose sleep, can you name one?

 

[Krazeh]

Surveillance doesn't equal that you're treated like a suspect.

It might be bland to you, but it's still a fact. Got nothing to hdie so they can look at my morning wank all they want.

I haven't lost one freedom that would make me lose sleep, can you name one?

While you may not consider losing the freedom to walk down the street without having your actions recorded to be a major loss not everyone agrees with you. And to be honest the "I've got nothing to hide" argument about not being bothered about surveillance is a load of nonsense, it isn't and never has been about having anything to hide, it's about the concept of privacy and having the freedom to do things without being watched over just in case you do something you shouldn't really be doing.

 

[Jail Bait]

Since the banks and corner stores have installed cameras have the incidence of crime dropped?

 

[old.Tohtori]

While you may not consider losing the freedom to walk down the street without having your actions recorded to be a major loss not everyone agrees with you. And to be honest the "I've got nothing to hide" argument about not being bothered about surveillance is a load of nonsense, it isn't and never has been about having anything to hide, it's about the concept of privacy and having the freedom to do things without being watched over just in case you do something you shouldn't really be doing.

Am i asking you to agree with me?

I can say it in another way then; i wouldn't mind it.

If that "nothing to hide" isn't your cup of tea.

As far as i'm concerned, people can see me on the street anytime, so a camera is no different.

 

[Jail Bait]

Am i asking you to agree with me?

I can say it in another way then; i wouldn't mind it.

If that "nothing to hide" isn't your cup of tea.

As far as i'm concerned, people can see me on the street anytime, so a camera is no different.

You would like living in Jail them

 

[StRaNgEdAyS]

It's not the nothing to hide that is the issue though is it?
Take our little stalker here, he seems to think that by digging into my past and posting information about the time when I used to manufacture amphetamines for a living I'm going to go all wobbly kneed and bow to his 1337 skillz. He seems to think like I've got some deep dark secret that is going to make me quiver in my boots. Because I'm honest about my past I have nothing to hide. It's pretty common knowledge that I used to be a ****. I'm up front about it, yet I'd find it downright offensive if the Government decided to stick a camera in my life just to make sure I'm on the straight and level.
I cannot fathom why people would be willing to give up basic privacy for perceived security. It's not even close to security since it's not going to stop the crime, just monitor it. It's not about safety more than control.

 

[old.Tohtori]

You would like living in Jail them

Your point?

I cannot fathom why people would be willing to give up basic privacy for perceived security. It's not even close to security since it's not going to stop the crime, just monitor it. It's not about safety more than control.

Like i said, i wouldn't mind it. Just wouldn't, simple as that. I don't find anything wrong with it and it would effect my life by an amount that accumulates close to nothing.

If it meant that one crime could be stopped a year, then it's worth it as it does no harm. If you can tell me what the harm would be, i'm listening.

It's a meh discussion anyway, because people tend to demand things, but are unable to give up anything, even if those demands require giving up.

 

[Krazeh]

Like i said, i wouldn't mind it. Just wouldn't, simple as that. I don't find anything wrong with it and it would effect my life by an amount that accumulates close to nothing.

If it meant that one crime could be stopped a year, then it's worth it as it does no harm. If you can tell me what the harm would be, i'm listening.

It's a meh discussion anyway, because people tend to demand things, but are unable to give up anything, even if those demands require giving up.

You're really not grasping the issue at hand are you? Giving up freedoms for security, in this case giving up the freedom to live your life in relative privacy so you can be watched at all times of the day by the State, does nothing to actually improve security. Yes it may give a increased perception of security but that's it, it does nothing for actual security and is all about control. Not only that but it's the start of a slippery slope, once people are used to giving up one freedom for an increase in percieved security then it becomes easier and easier to have them give up more and more freedoms and before you know it you have a situation where the State has far more control than they ever should have.

It's not about the little changes having a major impact on your life, as each one taken in isolation will have little change, but when they start adding together they will have a major impact and by the time that happens it'll be too late to do anything about it.

 

[Airhead]

I haven't lost one freedom that would make me lose sleep, can you name one?

Sure...we lose freedoms every day. In our recent past we've lost our right to privacy; the Supreme Court reversed its decision and now police can demand an ID without probable cause. The afore mentioned restrictions on gun ownership. The allowing of no knock police raids. Seizure of personal property without a trial, much less a conviction. (Google "asset forfeiture.")

Warrantless phone taps. Sobriety checkpoints. Government snooping of peoples' emails and computer files. Airspace flight restrictions.

I could go on all day, Toh- 9-11 has destroyed liberty on both sides of the pond, and once a right is taken it's not restored. Add to the Fed stuff things like helmet laws, seatbelt laws, bicycle helmet laws for kids, safety restrictions that require notices a small plastic toy might choke your child, and all the other foolishness from the local level on up, and it makes me wonder how I managed to survive childhood without a bicycle helmet.

You are fine with your Mum telling you not to run with scissors, and Americans LIKE running with scissors.

 

[old.Tohtori]

You're really not grasping the issue at hand are you?

I am grasping it very well thank you. I just don't hold your point of view and i wouldn't mind it.

Full surveillance wouldn't harm me in any way, this whole privacy malarky is just a cooked p concept anyway.

I could go on all day, Toh-

Aye, but you'd still be barking out stuff that has had no effect and most likely will not have any effect on me, even IF i lived in the states.

People are too damn stubborn and too damn paranoid these days.

Bicycle helmet law is a good one btw, so is wearing your seatbelt. You'd be pretty silly not to.

 

[Chilly]

seatbelts are a fucking good idea tbh. you have no control over the drunk asshole who sideswipes you. it's not just down to judgement and individual skill.