News For camera nerds only

[old.user4556]

Sorry I had to go out to hit some golf balls, big post incoming fs.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I really hope after all your moaning about it that you'll get a 5D3

(I know you won't)

 

[caLLous]

Can't see him switching to Nikon after so little time with Canon. He best fucking not be anyway.

 

[TdC]

my camera shop mate is whoring Fuji's X pro 1 off to me like you wouldn't believe. damn, but it's a sexy beast :/

 

[old.user4556]

Okay,

So now that the MK3 and the D800 have been out for a while, there have been plenty of resources / reviews around on the web with detailed user experiences documenting both cameras. Both of them are very good indeed, but I've got issues with both of them:

- there's a lot of D800 users with faulty units, particularly with autofocus issues.
- Nikon lenses are just balls compared to their Canon counterparts. Nikon need to get a move on and refresh some of their lenses because the D800 needs good glass.
- Canon can go fuck a duck with their pricing. £2000 for the new 24-70mm? Jog on.
- Canon have made very little movement in their sensor technology in years. I don't get Canon or Nikon. Nikon have the awesome sensor but the poorer glass, Canon have poorer sensors but excellent glass.
- both cameras cost thousands of pounds with good lenses costing more thousands of pounds. Upgrading to full-frame is a massive amount of money for something that is purely an enthusiast pursuit.
- I don't need 36 megapixels, most photographers don't need 36 megapixels. The D800's resolution is just far more than I will ever need.

Another requirement I have out of a new camera, or certainly out my ideal camera list, is a compact camera. I've had a look at top spec Canon powershots at ~£400, but they left me uninspired. Ideally, I wanted a camera that has all the bells and whistles of a pro DSLR with at least an APS-C sized sensor that I would double up as a compact "night out" or "holiday" camera and also "digital back" for my landscape photography. In addition, I've been fed up with the 7D's dynamic range (worse than an old Nikon D90) and it shows badly in shadow areas of images. The notorious vertical banding shows up on any small amount of image processing of my 7D RAWS, so I wanted to tap into the new Exmor based sensors.

After much digging and research, here it is:

Sony NEX 7.

The only issue I had with buying the Sony was leaving behind my fricking awesome lenses (Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 and Canon 17-55mm f/2.8). There is a solution. There is a fucking awesome solution:

http://www.metabones.com/product/sony-nex

The metabones adaptor allows you to plug in your Canon EF lenses to this tiny little body, so I can still retain my lenses for landscape work but revel in 24.3 megapixel Exmor awesomeness. So how does this little Sony stack up in the image quality stakes? Here are some shots taken from the DPreview studio scenes with the 5D Mk3 and the Sony NEX 7 upsampled to 36 megapixels.

Here's a crop of a shadow area that I have pushed to 100 fill light (four stops) in Camera Raw to demonstrate dynamic range latitude.

Base:



D800 (the king of king's of sensor quality):



5D MK3:



Sony NEX7:



Clearly the D800 with about 14.4 stops of dynamic range as base ISO has the best recoverable shadow detail with the NEX7 a stop or so behind and the 5D MK3 getting pretty noisy with a bit of pattern banding beginning to show.

As far as sharpness goes, here's crops from a finely detailed part of the image (again, the Sony and Canon are upsampled to 36 megapixels).

D800:



5D MK3:



Sony NEX 7:



I'll let you decide .

Measured dynamic range in the lab. Here the 5D MK3 is demonstrated to be a tiny shade better than the D800 from about ISO 1600 onwards, but the Exmor based sensors demonstrate their low ISO superiority here (practical examples above demonstrate this in the real world). At higher ISOs, the benefit of the larger sensor is apparent, with about a 1.3 stop advantage over the NEX 7 from about ISO 800 onwards. I guess it depends what's important to you (worth noting that the NEX 7 is slightly better than the 7D at higher ISOs):



The boxes that this Sony NEX 7 tick for me are:

- Compact, pocketable camera with built in flash. Will make an excellent digital back and a walkaround lightweight camera when on holiday.
- 24.3 megapixels and 13.5 stops of DR at base ISO.
- the ability to use my existing EF-S lenses with the use of an adaptor.
- The body retails at only £839, that makes it very cheap in comparison to the D800 and 5D Mk3 considering how good the image quality from the sensor is (clearly better than the MK3 between ISO 100 to around ISO 400 all things being equal on the lens front). The bang per buck factor is undeniable.

My only gripe is lenses. It needs good glass and the Sony kit lenses don't really cut it unless you downsample. For holiday snaps, this is absolutely fine for 8 x 10 prints - even downsampled to 10 megapixels will cut it, so the issue of "good glass" only really applies if you're going to want to print big. Luckily, there is a solution:

- Sigma 19mm f/2.8 prime - £169
- Sigma 30mm f/2.8 prime - £149

These little primes have been getting rave reviews on the NEX 7 with some stellar results compared with the rather awesome (and expensive) Zeiss 24mm. Some other full size examples here.


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXbKbG_mygk


So yeah, I've done my homework in fine detail. The Sony NEX 7

 

[Killswitch]

Might as well take advantage of the nerd power in this thread to beg my superiors for advice. I want to buy some a couple a camera for a wedding present. I'm thinking around £600. They'd be new to the SLR game but they do take a lot of pictures and they're pretty technical. My amateur research has gotten me down to two options; Canon 600d vs Sony A57.

Anyone got any hints for me?

 

[TdC]

yo Gbacon, can you plug those little sigma's directly into the ' 7 or do you need that adapter for it? also, awesome post mate.

 

[old.user4556]

They plug straight on, they come in Sony E mount.

http://cheesycam.com/sigma-30mm-e-mount-on-sony-nex-7/

I think Sigma are moving quickly to get ground in the quality mirrorless prime segment as Sony have some gaps in the lens line up currently.

 

[caLLous]

It looks like you might have a bit of a wait on your hands to get one of those metabones adapters. Also, they don't support AF, which probably doesn't bother you as a landscape-y type (unless you want the 17-55 to be your walkabout lens). Looks good though overall.

Also, how do those adapters work without screwing around with the focal length? As there's physically more stuff between the focal plane and the front element of the lens.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Okay,

So yeah, I've done my homework in fine detail. The Sony NEX 7

Someone contact the mods, Bodhi's hacked G's account for the most elaborate hoax post ever.

 

[old.user4556]

It looks like you might have a bit of a wait on your hands to get one of those metabones adapters. Also, they don't support AF, which probably doesn't bother you as a landscape-y type (unless you want the 17-55 to be your walkabout lens). Looks good though overall.

Also, how do those adapters work without screwing around with the focal length? As there's physically more stuff between the focal plane and the front element of the lens.

Yep, they're in big demand those thingies. There's a big community of people (myself included) that don't want to chuck their good glass but want to tap into good sensors and Metabones have played a blinder in creating many different adaptors for many lenses. Leica primes on a little body like that? Awesome! I'm not fussed about autofocus from a landscape point of view, all my landscape shots are focussed manually. For sports / wildlife I can revert back to the 7D (infact, I'd still prefer a DSLR body for that).

Re the focal length, I'm not sure.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Most adapter rings are so small that any focal length change is going to be minor, if at all tbh.

 

[caLLous]

That one looks like it adds a good few centimetres. Unless it has some incredibly clever bits of glass in it it is going to alter the focal length and dof and stuff (albeit in a quite minor way) somehow.

 

[old.user4556]

Also, wind that video review to 4:30 - sports and wildlife shouldn't be an issue should Sony ever release telephotos for it .

I've been taken over by Bodhi somehow.

 

[old.user4556]

That one looks like it adds a good few centimetres. Unless it has some incredibly clever bits of glass in it it is going to alter the focal length and dof and stuff (albeit in a quite minor way) somehow.

I'll have a google, here's a dude that uses the 17-55 on a NEX - http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1106768

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Glad you've chosen your camera but you do know it's fucking ugly, don't you?

 

[old.user4556]

Just thinking Cal, the sensor on the NEX cameras is very close to the back of the lens - the 17-55 (for example) will have the mirror box in the way of the sensor on a DSLR thus adding a few CMs between the back of the lens and the sensor.

 

[TdC]

G, you've certainly made my day. My mate's actually got a bunch of old Leica lenses and I'm itching to try that '7 out with one of them lol

I'll see what he says and keep you posted. With this getup you posted above, I can have my wish of a pocketable camera with good quality primes for not too much cash. A '7 with one, actually BOTH of those Sigma's is still about 700 euros less expensive than the X pro 1 with one lens. In fact, the 7 with one Sigma is cheaper than the Fuji body, and that body's quite large...slightly less large than the Leica M9 but not by much!

 

[old.user4556]

Glad you've chosen your camera but you do know it's fucking ugly, don't you?

I think it's rather nice actually .

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I think it's rather nice actually .

Full Bodhi hack has blinkered you, RIP Big G. Congratulations on your birth, Bodhi2!

 

[caLLous]

Yeah, all the of the NEX's have been good-looking little cameras, especially since they bulked up a bit.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

You guys fancy Anne Robinson too, right?

 

[old.user4556]

G, you've certainly made my day. My mate's actually got a bunch of old Leica lenses and I'm itching to try that '7 out with one of them lol

I'll see what he says and keep you posted. With this getup you posted above, I can have my wish of a pocketable camera with good quality primes for not too much cash. A '7 with one, actually BOTH of those Sigma's is still about 700 euros less expensive than the X pro 1 with one lens. In fact, the 7 with one Sigma is cheaper than the Fuji body, and that body's quite large...slightly less large than the Leica M9 but not by much!

Actually teeds on that note, I was chatting to a colleague today who shoots weddings as a second job. He's got a Nikon D3S and a D3X, but he's just got himself an X Pro 1 as a spare - he absolutely loves it and was telling me how many impromptu and candid shots he's captured with it. It's so compact and always ready to go and he finds that people are less intimidated by it instead of a big DSLR.

 

[TdC]

You guys fancy Anne Robinson too, right?

fwooaar!!

 

[old.user4556]

You guys fancy Anne Robinson too, right?

Imagine that panting away above you. YES PLEASE.

 

[TdC]

Actually teeds on that note, I was chatting to a colleague today who shoots weddings as a second job. He's got a Nikon D3S and a D3X, but he's just got himself an X Pro 1 as a spare - he absolutely loves it and was telling me how many impromptu and candid shots he's captured with it. It's so compact and always ready to go and he finds that people are less intimidated by it instead of a big DSLR.

I know man, it's a lovely bit of kit! Fuji's just completely mental with their pricing schemes: body's retailing here for 1700 euros, and THEN you have to get a fixed-price lens to go with it, to the tune of 579 euros. Even though the kit gives me a raging horn even more than Trem does I'm a thrifty cant donchaknow.
I'd love to get the Fuji because I wants it, precious, oh yes, but I just can't sell it to myself if you know what I mean. That NEX, with smart Sigma lens choices or even that uber-leet Zeiss...well yeah I can dig it. In fact.....a NEX-7 = 1399 euros + zeiss vario-sonnar 16-80mm (fap fap fap) = 879 euros. I'm sure my mate can swing me a nice discount lol!

*plots*

 

[old.user4556]

Mind you'll need an adaptor for Sony A mount lenses.

Look at this - http://www.photozone.de/sony_nex/727-zeiss85f14nex

It looks like a stiff Bodhi pee pee.

 

[TdC]

oh. my. goodness.

 

[TdC]

Hmm, just run in to my only gripe: lens availability. Since I actually don't have a camera at all atm, I have no stockpiled glass. This means that initially I will need to get a niceish lens, like that super sexy 24mm f2 Zeiss for the E fitting (sadly I thought the NEX-7 would take A fitting as it has the alpha character on the body but I was wrong as per G's post above). However...exactly NONE of the good lenses are in stock anywhere in the NL. None at all. Except the 1k euros 24mm 1.8 Zeiss 0o

 

[milou]

I use a cheap adaptor to run a 50mm f/1.4 on a Panasonic GF2. No aperture control though - one of these needed: http://store.redrockmicro.com/livelensmft