For all you Watermans-stylesheet LA-wankers:

[Arnor]

"To quote Waterman from another thread on the Rogue boards.

Unfortunately, at this time, the weapskill stat used to determine how hard the offhand weapon hits is based solely on the wielder's Left Axe spec.

This means that *potentially* someone with 50Axe/20LA will have the same damage output as someone with 50Thrust/20DW, in reality the damage output will be slightly lower because the offhand will hit for less overall (since the DW offhand is based on the Thrust user's weapskill based on his 50 Thrust). We are trying to get them to change it so that the offhand weapon is based on the weapskill of the mainhand weapon.

If this *does not* happen, then putting more spec into LA may be more important after all for real damage over time against high AF targets. This is why we need to make sure that it does. Hopefully the SB TL is pushing this on the TL forums as well (since it's a large impact to SB's, but a lesser impact to Berserkers).

Translation: Eh guys, you know that big document I wrote that everyone touted as the bible of LA and was essentially a massive boost to the nerf LA movement? Well my math was off, just like OH SO MANY of you SBs and Zerkers said it was, eh eh eh, oopsies.

To which I say: Gee thanks. Kinda late aren't you?

Sunday. "


Now, what have I been saying since, uhm this shit hit the net?
To be so prudent as to quote myself: "Dont take everything you read as fucking gospel, who knows where he got those numbers from"

 

[SilverHood]

haha,

mythic should hire someone to do maths rather than rely on volunteers

 

[tris-]

Originally posted by SilverHood
haha,

mythic should hire someone to do maths rather than rely on volunteers

isnt that the programers job? they are the ones who put the math in the game in the first place.

 

[Damon_D]

HAHAHAHA the programmers job..thats a good one hahahaha..well its sure dont look like they check anything..

 

[katt!]

Originally posted by Arnor2
"To quote Waterman from another thread on the Rogue boards.

Unfortunately, at this time, the weapskill stat used to determine how hard the offhand weapon hits is based solely on the wielder's Left Axe spec.

This means that *potentially* someone with 50Axe/20LA will have the same damage output as someone with 50Thrust/20DW, in reality the damage output will be slightly lower because the offhand will hit for less overall (since the DW offhand is based on the Thrust user's weapskill based on his 50 Thrust). We are trying to get them to change it so that the offhand weapon is based on the weapskill of the mainhand weapon.

If this *does not* happen, then putting more spec into LA may be more important after all for real damage over time against high AF targets. This is why we need to make sure that it does. Hopefully the SB TL is pushing this on the TL forums as well (since it's a large impact to SB's, but a lesser impact to Berserkers).

Translation: Eh guys, you know that big document I wrote that everyone touted as the bible of LA and was essentially a massive boost to the nerf LA movement? Well my math was off, just like OH SO MANY of you SBs and Zerkers said it was, eh eh eh, oopsies.

To which I say: Gee thanks. Kinda late aren't you?

Sunday. "


Now, what have I been saying since, uhm this shit hit the net?
To be so prudent as to quote myself: "Dont take everything you read as fucking gospel, who knows where he got those numbers from"

zerkers are still overpowered, whats your point?

 

[klavrynd]

the only numbers that matter are the number of whiners on vnboards

 

[Draylor]

So?

Its really NOT the offhand hits that the majority of whines were about.

 

[blain]

What people were moaning about was the fact that the melee realm had a successful light tank.

.....and the fact that it might upset the delicate realm balance mythic maintain.........bwa....bwahaha.......bwahahahahahahahaha
Ok..OK.. the second bit was complete bullshit.

 

[old.LandShark]

No, actually (and you owe me thanks for not calling you a jackass here) what everyone was moaning about was being two-shotted by a light tank that does 4x the damage of any other light tank. k? k.

Arnor: sorry dude, no-one cares. It's true that Mythic does nerfs purely based on the demographics of the class and on the volume of the whines, but... zerkers needed nerfing. Not this much, but I fail to see how this guy's mistake would have made any difference to the 'pro-nerf' party's arguments...

 

[Jiggs]

cry me a river

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by old.LandShark
No, actually (and you owe me thanks for not calling you a jackass here) what everyone was moaning about was being two-shotted by a light tank that does 4x the damage of any other light tank. k? k.

Arnor: sorry dude, no-one cares. It's true that Mythic does nerfs purely based on the demographics of the class and on the volume of the whines, but... zerkers needed nerfing. Not this much, but I fail to see how this guy's mistake would have made any difference to the 'pro-nerf' party's arguments...

Ahh, ok

If anyone PLEASE can find a quote from me, where I have said that low quick, high rr zerkers DONT need a nerfing, please... DO bring it here.

My ONLY point with this was to point out for the fucking wankers that used this info, and said that a 35-40% dmg decrease was ok, or not enough, since the la-style bonuses would STILL be higher than bm/mercs on the SINGLE basis that some dude with way too much time on his hands made a document with lots of text and some numbers. I think NOONE except me and a handful others thought of the fact that it MIGHT not be fucking true.


So fuck you Jiggs&katt this isnt a whine, this is hopefully a wakeup call for you uninformed rejects that see something on the internet and draws the conclusion that (lots of text)+(random numbers)=true

 

[katt!]

Originally posted by Arnor2
Ahh, ok

If anyone PLEASE can find a quote from me, where I have said that low quick, high rr zerkers DONT need a nerfing, please... DO bring it here.

My ONLY point with this was to point out for the fucking wankers that used this info, and said that a 35-40% dmg decrease was ok, or not enough, since the la-style bonuses would STILL be higher than bm/mercs on the SINGLE basis that some dude with way too much time on his hands made a document with lots of text and some numbers. I think NOONE except me and a handful others thought of the fact that it MIGHT not be fucking true.


So fuck you Jiggs&katt this isnt a whine, this is hopefully a wakeup call for you uninformed rejects that see something on the internet and draws the conclusion that (lots of text)+(random numbers)=true

boo.

hoo.

haha, arnor is getting nerfed.

 

[Nightchill]

emotional thread

 

[The Kingpin]

Aye, and after 1.62..

The alb whiners will move to Savage..

"TEH CAN QUAD HIT!!111 OMFG LOOLLL NEED NERF KTHX!11"

 

[klavrynd]

10c and a dead cat that katt is playing a chanter

 

[katt!]

friar

 

[klavrynd]

oh, right, the balanced class

 

[ghoul]

very.

 

[Damon_D]

Re: Re: For all you Watermans-stylesheet LA-wankers:

Originally posted by katt!
zerkers are still overpowered, whats your point?

Yeah and your still a twat ..so whats you point ??

 

[blain]

Originally posted by old.LandShark
No, actually (and you owe me thanks for not calling you a jackass here)

Call me a jackass.......I'm still right.

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by blain
Call me a jackass.......I'm still right.

actually no, its not right that someone has the ability to hit for almost 1000dmg without crit @3.5 speed.

 

[blain]

So..........What you are saying is that a light tank from the "MELEE" realm is better than light tanks from the "MAGIC" realm and the "GETS ALL THE LOVIN" Realm.

/em Puts on scarf and flat cap

"EVENIN STANDARD, READ ALL ABOUT IT, MELEE REALMS LIGHT TANKS DO MOST DAMAGE, SHOCK REPORT ON FRONT PAGE"

 

[iziz]

Originally posted by Arnor2
"To quote Waterman from another thread on the Rogue boards.

Unfortunately, at this time, the weapskill stat used to determine how hard the offhand weapon hits is based solely on the wielder's Left Axe spec.

This means that *potentially* someone with 50Axe/20LA will have the same damage output as someone with 50Thrust/20DW, in reality the damage output will be slightly lower because the offhand will hit for less overall (since the DW offhand is based on the Thrust user's weapskill based on his 50 Thrust). We are trying to get them to change it so that the offhand weapon is based on the weapskill of the mainhand weapon.

If this *does not* happen, then putting more spec into LA may be more important after all for real damage over time against high AF targets. This is why we need to make sure that it does. Hopefully the SB TL is pushing this on the TL forums as well (since it's a large impact to SB's, but a lesser impact to Berserkers).

Translation: Eh guys, you know that big document I wrote that everyone touted as the bible of LA and was essentially a massive boost to the nerf LA movement? Well my math was off, just like OH SO MANY of you SBs and Zerkers said it was, eh eh eh, oopsies.

To which I say: Gee thanks. Kinda late aren't you?

Sunday. "


Now, what have I been saying since, uhm this shit hit the net?
To be so prudent as to quote myself: "Dont take everything you read as fucking gospel, who knows where he got those numbers from"

(references here are made to the LA / CD / DW imbalance document, found at http://pete.waterman.net/daoc/Dual-Wield.html)

ok...

If you work out the maths, taking this new info about LA weaponskill being related to LA spec, at level 50 in their main weapon skill a DW/CD user will have a higher unstyled dps than the LA user, pre level 50 DW/CD/LA... if they're using the same speed weapons in both hands. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

However, before this becomes even more of a whine about the LA nerf, you can't conviently forget about the haste effect that LA brings. If you look at the example Waterman gave with the 4.0 speed and 2.2 speed axes, levels 1-30 in CD/DW, the CD/DW user will still have an advantage over the LA user (with a dps of 66.46 instead of 66.82 at level 30, if you do the maths). From level 31-50 the LA user has the higher DPS, right up to the full advantage at level 50.

Obviously this is only for that particular example, however the greater the difference in speeds between main and off hand weapon, the lower you have to spec in LA to make up and exceed the equivalent in CD/DW.

I don't think that the LA camp can consider this new info about LA damage being based on LA spec as a valid arguement to get their damage output raised again. Post ~level 30 spec they still get higher base damage due to the haste effect, they get the advantage of always double hitting (poisons, procs etc) and, when you bring styles back into the equation, they still get the advantage of having higher growth rates on their styles... which is still significant, even if it's not double that of CD/DW users.

Anyway - I'm done being rational... you can continue flaming again now

 

[Jiggs]

PFFF

cry me a river

 

[old.Cher]

/em crys jiggs a river

 

[katt!]

Originally posted by Jiggs
PFFF

cry me a river

[insert zerker board url]

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by blain
So..........What you are saying is that a light tank from the "MELEE" realm is better than light tanks from the "MAGIC" realm and the "GETS ALL THE LOVIN" Realm.

/em Puts on scarf and flat cap

"EVENIN STANDARD, READ ALL ABOUT IT, MELEE REALMS LIGHT TANKS DO MOST DAMAGE, SHOCK REPORT ON FRONT PAGE"

just answer me this, not trying to be funny, or anything else:

Do you think it is right that a ligh-tank with studded armor and 2300hps fully buffed, cheap ra's and access to AP and determination shall be able to do up to 1000ish dmg without crits? up to 1900 dmg with crits, at 3.5 swingtime? (max luck on crits here ofc)

I dont.

But I think that the way mythic nerfed us was wrong, and a cheap shot, but it doesnt change the fact that zerkers needed a nerf.


and thanks cher, that might shut that dress-wearing nancy up for a while


edit: thx for being rational iziz

 

[blain]

Originally posted by Arnor2
just answer me this, not trying to be funny, or anything else:

Do you think it is right that a ligh-tank with studded armor and 2300hps fully buffed, cheap ra's and access to AP and determination shall be able to do up to 1000ish dmg without crits?

Is that pre or post resists?

 

[Arnor]

thats actual factual dmg that ppl have been hit for with capped resists.

 

[-yoda-]

any tank that can 2shot kill lvl50 plate earing tanks needs to be ajusted ..
regardless of wether they are low quick zerkers or not there is NO doubt at all zerkers do to much dmge , ANY zerker who thinks they dont do to much dmge imo is a retard , i dont give a toss about game formulas n ws and all that stuf, the hard facts and numbers seen in screnshots of zerkers dmge PROVES they hit far to hard for the class they supossed to be

please show me screenshots of a tank or light tank or ANY class in all the other realms hitting for that sort of dmge please ., if u can ill agree zerkers dont need a nerf afaic zerkers need toning down dmge wise to bring them inline with other realms tanks , i dont even think 35-40% is to much ., 35-40% of 1k dmge STILL = 600'ish dmge ,, which is prolyl stll harder than most tanks "if not all" i know zerkers dont hit for 1k everytime and they need a good crit.. but at same time that sorta dmge isnt rare ,

p.s i couldnt be assed reading whole thread just the initial whines from zerkers claiming they dont need be nerfed