Rant First Eruopean/Islamic woman with a headscarf in parliament

[nath]

Easy, after the people calling backpedalling realise they're the ones doing it



Let Ch3tan answer for himself, you can't end a discussion between other people.

F*ckity. Offity.

It's good to see your time away from the forums has made absolutely fuck all difference to your ability to discuss things. I'm out.

 

[Ch3tan]

If it was true, i might be a racist by my own definition, but you know you're only saying you don't because of the discussion.

You would judge someone by being religious, instantly. I could even go digging for a quote on that, but i don't think i'll bother.
.

Please do, continue to label and brand me toht, you are doing nothing for your point here, only coming across as hugely self-righteous.

I can make a clear definition between what people believe and what I think of them, their beliefs will not affect what I think of them (barring very extremist views which harm themselves or others). You do not seem to think people can, until you realise this then this discussion will go nowhere.

 

[Chronictank]

Bah edit timer above;
While i appreciate it takes time to do find things and alot of people post at work between doing things but still.. you make very outlandish claims based on what? what the resident bigots in the sun say in the morning?

If i was a knob i would have just insulted you and left it at that rather than try to educate you so you do not form a misinformed an opinion about a group of people which at some point in your life will result in you losing out.. just a thought

 

[old.Tohtori]

No, no I dont.
Nice way to pick one point out of several other good points I have made.
Still a shame though, because everyone here is talking about thing and youre talking about something else, and since im not the only one thinkings that maybe you need to check your self.

We've been talking about hating a group of people with common feature all the time, you can't just go changing that.

Go read back, it's clear as day and i've stated it MANY times and you've answered in kind.

You can't call that on me.

You've been saying that it's not as bad to hate people for something else then race.

It's good to see your time away from the forums has made absolutely fuck all difference to your ability to discuss things. I'm out.

Actually i'm right in what i said, go check your own posting. If you can.

Please do, continue to label and brand me toht, you are doing nothing for your point here, only coming across as hugely self-righteous.

I can make a clear definition between what people believe and what I think of them, their beliefs will not affect what I think of them (barring very extremist views which harm themselves or others). You do not seem to think people can, until you realise this then this discussion will go nowhere.

I'm curious on what point you're trying to discuss even.

Ah yes, me doing something i didn't. Maybe you should check the discussion and notice i've clearly stated what i've been saying.

 

[tris-]

What ever you say. clearly everyone else is wrong and you are right.

 

[Ch3tan]

Right I am not going to continue this; Toht you have not changed at all, take a longer break next time. You revert to subtle digs and abuse far to quickly, you answer without considering things, you seem only to care about increasing your post count in the thread. It's like someone shouting louder and louder for attention until they get it.

Enjoy debating with your-self. No doubt you will see it as a victory that I've walked away rather than continue to discuss this with you, well done, you have succesfully out -shouted me.

 

[tris-]

Im going to play SF4 and get whooped

 

[dub]

Mahinur Ozdemir is the first woman in an European country who wears an Islamic Headscarf in Parliament

Again, I'm ashamed to be Belgian
All religious symbols are forbidden in parliament, but this is allowed...what's the logic of this?
Even stranger, she's representing the Christian Democratic party...

I'm not a racist, but this encroaching Islamisation of Europe is seriously starting to irritate me...Muslims are generally showing a blatant disrespect for the traditions of the European countries they reside in.
Even worse, when asked to adapt, they whine that they are being discriminated...

I wonder, is it this bad everywhere in Europe?

just remove the dresscode legislation for parlamentarians , i doubt democracy will tumble because a vote is submitted by someone wearing a turban , or oil and feathers for that matter

 

[nath]

Right I am not going to continue this; Toht you have not changed at all, take a longer break next time. You revert to subtle digs and abuse far to quickly, you answer without considering things, you seem only to care about increasing your post count in the thread. It's like someone shouting louder and louder for attention until they get it.

Enjoy debating with your-self. No doubt you will see it as a victory that I've walked away rather than continue to discuss this with you, well done, you have succesfully out -shouted me.

I thought the idea that he knows you better than you know yourself was a particularly nice touch, either that or just calling you a liar.

Yeah, I'm out too.

 

[old.Tohtori]

What ever you say. clearly everyone else is wrong and you are right.

Go look.

Honest to gods, go.

You were annoyed at me calling people hating someone because of their religion as bad as hating someone because of their race.

That's it.

Hating people.

Nothing to do with judging an idea.

People.

Right I am not going to continue this; Toht you have not changed at all, take a longer break next time. You revert to subtle digs and abuse far to quickly, you answer without considering things, you seem only to care about increasing your post count in the thread. It's like someone shouting louder and louder for attention until they get it.

Enjoy debating with your-self. No doubt you will see it as a victory that I've walked away rather than continue to discuss this with you, well done, you have succesfully out -shouted me.

Well, considering what you called me on "telling lies etc", this is irony in the making.

You told i entwined hating religion into the discussion, when i never did.

Just go read back or show me where i did that.

I've spoken about hating people all. The. Time.

Now you're actually claiming i just post to get a higher postcount(which isn't visible anyway). Please.

It's you who needs to learn discussing things, i'm not the one using the age old cop-out again.

Maybe you need to stop looking for things i do, when there isn't one.

Not to mention, every time you can't discuss something, you take it into "toht is doing this".

Go ask some impartial person to read this thread and tell me what they think i was discussing about and what tris- was arguing against.

Oh and FYI; i don't discuss things to "win".

I thought the idea that he knows you better than you know yourself was a particularly nice touch, either that or just calling you a liar.

Yet you both do the same, every time.

 

[tris-]

Anyone else got SF4 on live?

 

[nath]

Yet you both do the same, every time.

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/off...woman-headscarf-parliament-2.html#post3531171

I'm referring to the very specific point you TELLING chet how he thinks, and how his attitudes to other people are formed. Either you're calling him a liar or you're implying that he's not fully aware of what he's doing. I don't recall ever doing something the same.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Just to make it painfully clear Ch3tan;

You have intertwined hate, race and religion into one.

You have basically called anyone criticising a religion as hating it

Where have i done these things? Show me.

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/off...woman-headscarf-parliament-2.html#post3531171

I'm referring to the very specific point you TELLING chet how he thinks, and how his attitudes to other people are formed. Either you're calling him a liar or you're implying that he's not fully aware of what he's doing. I don't recall ever doing something the same.

But it's a fact. People form opinions on what they learn.

I didn't say "you HATE someone for being religious", i said he forms an opinion. It's a fact you can't deny.

 

[tris-]

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/off...woman-headscarf-parliament-2.html#post3531171

I'm referring to the very specific point you TELLING chet how he thinks, and how his attitudes to other people are formed. Either you're calling him a liar or you're implying that he's not fully aware of what he's doing. I don't recall ever doing something the same.

Give up man. whaever you say, tohtori will be discussing somethiong else, even if you start discussing what he is discussing, he will be discussing what you were previous discussing. Its your fault though and everyone else was wrong about what the actual topic was.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

I dislike the "positive discrimination" that Europe as a whole is now doing to attempt to integrate the Muslim faith.

Just the same as with discrimination against Black people, or Asians etc - the pendulum swings too far the other way leaving anyone who isn't a minority out in the proverbial cold.

I'll cite the example of a mate of mine a few years ago going for 3 local council jobs and knowing someone on the inside - my mate had 5 years experience in a directly relevant role, the people who got it had 0 and were all conveniently Sikhs and they were conveniently behind on their diversity target for that religion...

We seem to have subtly transitioned from saying "we'll treat you the same since you wear a veil" to saying "we'll give you preferential treatment" - which is just as damaging to the concept of equality as treating someone as inferior.

As I said to one asian barman who accused me of being a racist a while back(he was hassling my other half about her not tipping him since the drinks took over half an hour to arrive and i told him to shut up and leave it) "i'm not telling you to shut the fuck up and walk away because you're asian mate - i'm telling you because you're acting like a c*ck and the service was with shit".

Same applies to religion. I'll treat you with deference if you're worth it, not just because you or someone else tells me i should on the arbitary basis of you signing up to an abstract belief system with no proof behind it whatsoever.


Arguing about religion is like arguing about who's imaginary friend is best...

 

[old.Tohtori]

Give up man. whaever you say, tohtori will be discussing somethiong else, even if you start discussing what he is discussing, he will be discussing what you were previous discussing. Its your fault though and everyone else was wrong about what the actual topic was.

Like i said, like i quoted on you, you've been discussing people, not ideas.

From the start, that's the discussion.

Fact you can't change.

Only after nath said he was discussing ideas, you changed your view.

Funny enough, it's all there, start from page 2 and read on.

 

[tris-]

Like i said, like i quoted on you, you've been discussing people, not ideas.

From the start, that's the discussion.

Fact you can't change.

Only after nath said he was discussing ideas, you changed your view.

I find it hillarious that you have the balls to tell people what they are actually doing.
But sure youre right, and everyone else isnt.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I find it hillarious that you have the balls to tell people what they are actually doing.
But sure youre right, and everyone else isnt.

I'm telling what you DID.

Go look for yourself.

We didn't start discussing hating religion.

For people who tell what i do/think/did, it's funny how little evidence you can provide.

Like, oh say, i did.

 

[tris-]

What ever you say man, I wil be wrong what ever I post.

 

[nath]

I find it hillarious that you have the balls to tell people what they are actually doing.
But sure youre right, and everyone else isnt.

I think you need to take your own advice mate . I'm gunna go play some Tekken Tag.

I'm telling what you DID.

Go look for yourself.

We didn't start discussing hating religion.

For people who tell what i do/think/did, it's funny how little evidence you can provide.

Like, oh say, i did.

You're implying that if people provide evidence you'd acknowledge it, this has been established as not the case. I'd provide evidence of this, but you'd not acknowledge it.


Time for some Lei Wulong!

 

[old.Tohtori]

What ever you say man, I wil be wrong what ever I post.

Well that's just because you, in this instant, are.

Saying "whatever man" doesn't change it.

You're implying that if people provide evidence you'd acknowledge it, this has been established as not the case. I'd provide evidence of this, but you'd not acknowledge it.

Nice cop.out.

Since you CAN'T provide evidence, it's your only choice really.

 

[tris-]

rrrrrrryOOOOOUKEEEEEEEEEEEEN

 

[Gorbachioo]

just remove the dresscode legislation for parlamentarians , i doubt democracy will tumble because a vote is submitted by someone wearing a turban , or oil and feathers for that matter

Why do you think it was introduced in the first place? To make it clear that religious differences have no place in the parliament.

Why should it be any different when it comes to muslims? After all, it is because of them that we need to worry about this again.


...When will this insanity end?

 

[Lethul]

We've been talking about hating a group of people with common feature all the time, you can't just go changing that.

Go read back, it's clear as day and i've stated it MANY times and you've answered in kind.

I think this is funny Clear as day and yet he is the only one who sees it like that?

 

[old.Tohtori]

I think this is funny Clear as day and yet he is the only one who sees it like that?

Show me where it's said it's about the idea and not the people?

Even the original post is about the people.

Only part is the question nath posed, and i admitted to not reading it well. I said that.

 

[dub]

Why do you think it was introduced in the first place? To make it clear that religious differences have no place in the parliament.

Why should it be any different when it comes to muslims? After all, it is because of them that we need to worry about this again.


...When will this insanity end?

the notion that banning any attire will keep religion out of politics is laughable , populistic legislation with no effect.

fight the ideas instead of the the symbols , banning attires or opinions is lack of conviction in your own arguments.

 

[Gorbachioo]

the notion that banning any attire will keep religion out of politics is laughable , populistic legislation with no effect.

fight the ideas instead of the the symbols , banning attires or opinions is lack of conviction in your own arguments.

Would it be a problem then if some MP came to work wearing a nazi uniform? By your logic: no. The things we wear send a message and in this case the wrong one. And that is that his actions will be affected by religion - which should not be the case in a secular country.

 

[`mongoose]

Vinter for what it's worth I can understand your frustration.

It's interesting how a muslim lady could stand as a member of a christian party but then I read just yesterday that in England there's a law against political parties discriminating against candidates who wish to stand for office on the grounds of race, creed, religion, sexuality etc.

I guess as long as this lady is going to fight for the policies of that party then her personal religion is largely irrelvent although that does seem wierd as politicians allegedly believe in the policies of the party that they stand for. It would be a strange old world if being a politician was just another career where you argue/stand for whoever you happen to represent that week. I would imagine that could lead to some serious issues down the line.

Anyways - for the record I don't think you're racist. Frustrated and slightly intolerant / suspicious of muslims perhaps but certainly not racist.

I've yet to read one of these stories about a christian who's quit their job over dress codes/ religious articles where the christian doesn't come accross as a bit of a nutjob. I dunno - I guess for me faith isn't about what I wear or carry. It's more about what I do and how I behave but that is a topic for another thread and one I probably wouldn't enter into.

I'm disappointed that yet another thread has been derailled into a multiquoted threadnaught of accusation and denial over what is largely semantics and bullshit, welcome back Toht I guess

M

 

[old.Tohtori]

I'm disappointed that yet another thread has been derailled into a multiquoted threadnaught of accusation and denial over what is largely semantics and bullshit, welcome back Toht I guess

Thanks, ain't it easier that you can blame me for everything again.

 

[dub]

Would it be a problem then if some MP came to work wearing a nazi uniform? By your logic: no. The things we wear send a message and in this case the wrong one. And that is that his actions will be affected by religion - which should not be the case in a secular country.

no , it wouldnt be a problem.

ill take a dressed up lunatic in parlament over legislation based on perceived "messages" anytime.