News Englands a third world country?

[Krazeh]

By all accounts he is tryng to deal with child abuse problem. There are reports that he has shown absolute disgust at what he's heard some of the church's priests have been up to.

Oh well that's good, he's shown disgust. How about actually doing something about it? Or ya know not getting himself into situations where he can appear to be linked to cover ups? This is a situation which has been going on for many many years, it's not a new thing and yet in the 5 years as Pope i'm yet to see him do anything of any real substance to deal with the problem. He offers platitudes, nothing more.

Would HIV/AIDS be the problem it is in Africa if people practiced the Christian standard of monogamy and no sex before marriage? I should stress I'm not a Catholic and I have no problem with condoms but I do think that a lot of the flack the Catholic Church gets is because people have a problem with authority.

Noone's denying that abstinence and remaining faithful is the best way to deal with the HIV/AIDS problem but that doesn't change the fact that when that fails, which it does due to basic human nature, practicing safe sex is a very good way to prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS. It's bad enough telling people not to use condoms, but the Catholic Church have gone as far as propogating nonsense about them being ineffective or actually increasing the spread of HIV/AIDS.

As for the reason the Catholic Church gets a lot of flack I disagree entirely. It's got nothing to do with having a problem with authority and everything to do with realising that the Catholic Church, for all the good things it does do, has many many things (both in the past and present) to apologise for and with their continuing track record cannot claim moral authority or superiority on anything.

 

[Scouse]

Firstly - the catholic church is spreading the word that condom's DON'T help stop the spread of AIDS. They're not just saying "sex is immoral", they're telling lies that are resulting in deaths, orphans, social devastation etc.


Secondly, the artificial imposition of a sexuality based on the catholic churches batshit "morality" is directly responsible for a large number of priests becoming so fucked up they abused the vulnerable children in their care.

It's fucking retarded.


Edit: Thirdly - I've no intention of EVER getting married Turamber. Should I never have sex?

 

[Turamber]

Noone's denying that abstinence and remaining faithful is the best way to deal with the HIV/AIDS problem but that doesn't change the fact that when that fails, which it does due to basic human nature, practicing safe sex is a very good way to prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS.

If "basic human nature" cannot be resisted, which I personally don't agree with, then why not go the next step and not use a condom either? The simple fact is that you can't divorce the Catholic Church's stance on safe sex from its stance that sex should only be within marriage.

As for what he is doing to combat the paedophilia issue in the Church, I don't know. I'm not a Catholic but I do have a problem with people attempting to pin blame for the historical situation on the current incumbent of the office of Pope.

Should we wring our hands with grief about Britain's creation of concentration camps, or maybe the burning of Catholics in Medieval England, and get angry with David Cameron?

 

[nath]

If "basic human nature" cannot be resisted, which I personally don't agree with, then why not go the next step and not use a condom either? The simple fact is that you can't divorce the Catholic Church's stance on safe sex from its stance that sex should only be within marriage.

You strike me as an intelligent bloke, but that is world-endingly naive. Whether or not you agree that basic human nature can be resisted or not makes little difference to the fact that people ARE fucking pre-marriage and spreading AIDS about because they're not using condoms.

A situation like this does not need high minded morals that don't work, it needs a pragmatic approach. If the catholic church reversed its position on AIDS - it may help the situation. And yet they don't. Because of batshit crazy "morals".

 

[Krazeh]

If "basic human nature" cannot be resisted, which I personally don't agree with, then why not go the next step and not use a condom either? The simple fact is that you can't divorce the Catholic Church's stance on safe sex from its stance that sex should only be within marriage.

Why can't you? What does the fact that they say you should only have sex during marriage have to do with their stance on safe sex? They are two separate issues and preaching that sex should remain within a marriage doesn't meant that it's ok for them to, or that they should be allowed to without comment or redress, preach that people shouldn't use condoms or that condoms do nothing to prevent or can increase the spread of HIV/AIDS.

As for what he is doing to combat the paedophilia issue in the Church, I don't know. I'm not a Catholic but I do have a problem with people attempting to pin blame for the historical situation on the current incumbent of the office of Pope.

The Pope had been a fairly high ranking member of the Catholic Church for quite a while before he became the Pope. It wasn't as if he was unaware of the child abuse issues facing the Church before he became Pope or even that he had no dealings with the issue before he became Pope. So I really don't have an issue with people pinning blame on him for the ongoing issues of child abuse or for the fact that nothing of substance has been done to resolve it.

Should we wring our hands with grief about Britain's creation of concentration camps, or maybe the burning of Catholics in Medieval England, and get angry with David Cameron?

Perhaps if David Cameron had been a high ranking of the Government at the time then we should but he wasn't and it's a ridiculous analogy tbh.

 

[Scouse]

/serious ON:

I do think that a lot of the flack the Catholic Church gets is because people have a problem with authority

Who the fuck appointed them as an "authority"?

Oh! That's right. They did.


The words of the pope are, according to catholicism, the actual teachings of god. The pope's guided by the holy spirit, apparently. You'd think god wouldn't be such a judgemental, intolerant fucking retard wouldn't you?

For a start, you'd expect god to know how things actually worked (he made the world after all). So why does the catholic church, through history, change it's stance on pretty much everything?

Is it because god doesn't really know what's going on or is it because the catholic church doesn't have a fucking clue and it's "winging" it in order to stay relevant enough to survive?


The pope has no authority other than that which the catholic church has arbritarily taken for itself.

 

[Scouse]

If "basic human nature" cannot be resisted, which I personally don't agree with, then why not go the next step and not use a condom either?

WHY should basic human nature be resisted?


It's one of our biological imperatives and denying that is a dangerous exercise in futility. As has been evidenced by the alarming number of priests who have raped children.



Edit: nath

 

[mr.Blacky]

Should I never have sex?

yes :kissit:

 

[Scouse]

yes :kissit:

OK then.

/finds kids

 

[Raven]

As for what he is doing to combat the paedophilia issue in the Church, I don't know. I'm not a Catholic but I do have a problem with people attempting to pin blame for the historical situation on the current incumbent of the office of Pope.

Why not? Is he Gods representative on earth or not? The last guy was gods representative when most of it happened, God allowed it to happen etc the new one should be on the blower to him up stairs sharpish, get it dealt with.

On a more serious note... The current pope held high office at the time and he knew it was going on and did nothing, if it hadn't broken into a shit storm he would be doing absolutely nothing, rather than the very little he is doing now. He was also a member of the Hitler youth, I wouldn't have thought someone with such high morality would have done that regardless of the consequences, sounds like he is very much in it for self preservation. I would imagine someone that believes so strongly in God would be more than willing to lay down their life against something like Nazism.

No, the truth is he is a ****, an epic one at that. This has fuck all to do with authority seeing as the catholic church has no authority. Just some confused old bigot who needs to get his own house in order before he tries to preach to the rest of the world.

 

[Ch3tan]

The Hitler youth thing is a bit low. If you were a growing up in Germany at the time, then it would have been hard not to have been. Being indoctrinated as a youth does not make you evil.

The rest however - well maybe he's got a direct line to the wrong fictional deity?

 

[Wij]

As for what he is doing to combat the paedophilia issue in the Church, I don't know. I'm not a Catholic but I do have a problem with people attempting to pin blame for the historical situation on the current incumbent of the office of Pope.

Ratzinger isn't getting the blame because he's the current Pope but because he's up to his neck in the cover-up:

We can't let the Roman Catholic Church judge its own cases. - By Christopher Hitchens - Slate Magazine

The pope is not above the law. - By Christopher Hitchens - Slate Magazine

 

[Turamber]

You strike me as an intelligent bloke, but that is world-endingly naive. Whether or not you agree that basic human nature can be resisted or not makes little difference to the fact that people ARE fucking pre-marriage and spreading AIDS about because they're not using condoms.

And if they only practice 50% of how the Church tells them to conduct themselves in their sexual relationships you don't think that is very much down to themselves and not their Church?

 

[Wij]

And if they only practice 50% of how the Church tells them to conduct themselves in their sexual relationships you don't think that is very much down to themselves and not their Church?

Still doesn't excuse the lies about condoms.

 

[DaGaffer]

And if they only practice 50% of how the Church tells them to conduct themselves in their sexual relationships you don't think that is very much down to themselves and not their Church?

First of all, where does the church get the moral authority to tell people how to conduct their private lives in the first place? Its entirely self-appointed. However, as the church does have the ability to influence behaviour, it shouldn't espouse a policy that's positively dangerous, and as Scouse says, a policy that goes beyond mere guidance into actively lying. The catholic church prohibits condom use even within marriage, which in a world of six billion and rising, is irresponsible even without the risk of AIDS as a factor. And you know why? Because a long time ago the church realised the best way to swell their numbers was by outbreeding the opposition, and they've encouraged that approach ever since. Almost all of catholic dogma can be viewed this way. Celibate priests have nothing to do with the bible for example; the problem was the early church suffered from priests bequeathing their property to their children, so hey presto, God says priests can't marry. There's pretty much nothing in catholicism that can be defended because when you get right down to it, its history's most successful pyramid scheme.

 

[Scouse]

... as Scouse says...

You don't really think that he actually reads my posts do you? I'm on his ignore list

Turamber, like most people of faith, takes offence when challenged on his faith - especially if the challenge is difficult to dodge. So he avoids them instead - no point in disturbing his calm, giving himself pause for thought or (shock!) challenging his own beliefs, eh?

 

[milou]

Someone must have posted a Mash link by now: The Daily Mash - QUEEN TO HAVE LUNCH WITH INSANE CRIMINAL

 

[Raven]

Another one

The Daily Mash - POPE CONGRATULATED ON SIZE OF HIS BALLS

 

[throdgrain]

Turambar does have a fair point about the marriage thing that I'd not considered before.

Perhaps in South Africa they ought to give up rape as a hobby too I'm expecting an edict from the pope on that one soon.

OR!

Compulsary issue of condoms to recreational rapists!!

That would probably sort it out. I'm suprised they havent thought of it already.

 

[Raven]

I think so long as its a minor then rape is perfectly fine for the pope.

 

[Scouse]

I must be missing your joke throddy. You seem to be suggesting that the major source of AIDS in Africa is something other than consentual sex between adults?

Anyway:

"So yes, in that sense Britain is like a third world country, the key difference being that thousands of people aren't dying of AIDS every day because some mad old fucker in a pointy hat told them that johnny bags are made by Lucifer.

Fucking class

 

[Embattle]

He has been at St Mary's just under a mile from where I live, loads of police and even a police helicopter in the morning just to wake everyone up at about 6:20am.

 

[Raven]

BBC is saying they have arrested some people for an attempted terrorist act related to the pope.

Don't these people realise that killing him would further his twisted cause?

 

[Jiggs]

What the cock is this? Father Ted was misleading!

 

[rynnor]

Believing homosexuality is immoral doesn't make an individual homophobic anymore than believing capitalism is wrong makes somebody an anarchist.

He said homosexuals were more prone to evil which if it isnt homophobia I dont know what is.

 

[Mabs]

i could make a long post at this point, but instead im just going to post this

YouTube - Bill Hicks - The Pope

 

[Embattle]

Considering what I saw today it is easy to see why it'll cost 1-1.5million just in policing his 4 day visit.

 

[Ch3tan]

Considering what I saw today it is easy to see why it'll cost 1-1.5million just in policing his 4 day visit.

Other business's have to contribute towards their own policing costs, sports clubs for example. Why should a successful business like the Catholic church be any different? Make them pay for the majority of the costs, or let him sit in Rome.

 

[Scouse]

Gah Mabs! I'm at work! Anything Bill Hicks ever did, ever, is worth watching.


Fuck it. It's friday. I'm goin' home!

 

[Raven]

Other business's have to contribute towards their own policing costs, sports clubs for example. Why should a successful business like the Catholic church be any different? Make them pay for the majority of the costs, or let him sit in Rome.

The problem is the Pope is a head of state and was invited by our head of state. We have to foot the bill.

I know he is head of a bullshit state but that's the way it is. I would rather we just didn't invite him here full stop. Who is next? Mahmoud Ahmadinejad?