Politics Election 2019

Who will you vote for 2019 UK GE

  • Con

    Votes: 9 37.5%
  • Lab

    Votes: 3 12.5%
  • Lib Dem

    Votes: 9 37.5%
  • Brexit

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 12.5%

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .

Embattle

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I wouldn't have the Lords nor would I replace it, I'm fine with the Monarchy.
 

Trem

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Worth bearing in mind that we've only had the system we have today since 1950. It isn't as though we'd be changing something that's been around for 700 years.

If I had my way it'd be PR, an elected house of representatives (Lords is an outdated term) who have to do some fucking work to get paid, the Monarchy can fuck off into the sea and be replaced by a president with a big shaggy dog like that Irish bloke, and Parliament would be moved to Barrow.
Nowt wrong here.

Jesus, I hate the Monarchy :eek:
 

Ormorof

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I would post a surprised Pikachu face but whats the point, the money is gone by now and UK gov isnt going to change its spots ;)
 

Scouse

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It's actually a well thought out policy @Embattle. They want to "do nothing" - but we're screaming "do something" - so the government is announcing a policy, most people read headlines so they'll see them "doing something".

Meanwhile - business as usual. Nothing changes. They're conserving the status quo (i.e. business profits above health, environment etc. etc.)
 

Embattle

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It's actually a well thought out policy @Embattle. They want to "do nothing" - but we're screaming "do something" - so the government is announcing a policy, most people read headlines so they'll see them "doing something".

Meanwhile - business as usual. Nothing changes. They're conserving the status quo (i.e. business profits above health, environment etc. etc.)

I think more people than ever are likely not to believe the headline from Johnson and co, thus read more in to it.

Yes they might be saving short term profits but if current events show anything long term profits are going to be more effected by worldwide events.
 

Trem

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Scouse

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Animal welfare standards have been ditched too.

Brexit - it's a fucking race to the bottom. It was always going to be. We knew it before, we can see it happening now before our very eyes.
 

Scouse

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Dickheads:

Actually, I think I agree with the government on this point.

It puts the onus on carmakers to sell more EV's - mandates them to do so. And one way they can do that is to make their petrol and diesel vehicles more expensive - and use the excess profits they get from them to reduce the price of EVs.

The only way this doesn't work is if the fines that the manufacturers receive for not selling enough EVs are less than the profits that they make for missing the targets. However - if that's OK then this action puts a big incentive on car makers to drive efficiency and cost-savings in their production processes for electric vehicles.


Either way. I won't be getting one for some time. Range is still shit - I live remote enough that I'm regularly having conversation with EV-owning weekend holidaymakers from further afield that tell me that coming on a weekend break here is now a massive pain in the ass - because they have to plan around charging stops and it compromises wherre they can go when they get here. (Longer term holidays, it's not so pronounced).

If I lived in a city, I'd have one already tho. But we're a two-car family and one of them would still be dirty.
 

Embattle

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I wouldn't disagree if it didn't go against most the experts in the article and my own opinion it is too early to pull the plug, I also dislike the excuse with regards to investing in the charging network which should be separate.
 

Scouse

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I think in a world of supposedly finite money then public spending on a charging network is way more important than hand-outs.

See my post above, actually. The range issue is the reason I won't get one - not that I can't afford £1500 split over the number of years I own a car. Charging and range are indedd the barrier to entry - not cost.
 

Raven

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No sane person is going to spend 27k (extreme basic model) on an electric nissan leaf...nor will they part with 25.5k

That is why EVs are failing.
 

Scouse

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No sane person is going to spend 27k (extreme basic model) on an electric nissan leaf...nor will they part with 25.5k

That is why EVs are failing.
If that's what they cost to manufacture... I suspect these big companies are profiteering - milking "early adopters" as usual.

If not, then we'd better crack on quickly at making alternative methods of sustainable transport available asap.
 

Embattle

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I think in a world of supposedly finite money then public spending on a charging network is way more important than hand-outs.

See my post above, actually. The range issue is the reason I won't get one - not that I can't afford £1500 split over the number of years I own a car. Charging and range are indedd the barrier to entry - not cost.
They were doing that already, or suppose to be although they are allegedly already behind on the charging network which isn't that shocking.

As I said before the experts in the article say it does make a difference for those it effects. My dad had a choice recently and ended up getting a BMW 430 convertible over a electric car, a couple reason drove that the first being he wanted a convertible, the second being the wait for electric cars and finally the ridiculous mark up on second hand electric cars.
 

Scouse

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As I said before the experts in the article say it does make a difference for those it effects. My dad had a choice recently and ended up getting a BMW 430 convertible over a electric car, a couple reason drove that the first being he wanted a convertible, the second being the wait for electric cars and finally the ridiculous mark up on second hand electric cars.
Your dad had 45 grand to spend on a car, and he blamed electric cars being expensive for not getting one?

He could have saved himself 3 grand and bought a Tesla (assuming not second hand). But either way, it's a choice - he wanted a convertible and no hood is more important to him than environment (in the same way that range is really important to me and until they fix that an electric car's a no-no).

The subsidy only applied for cars below £32k. And it reduces a £32k car to £30.5k. It's not going to make any material difference any more.
 

Wij

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Contractors outside of IR35 still get a big, indirect, subsidy.
 

Raven

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If that's what they cost to manufacture...
It doesn't cost that much, nowhere near. An electric car has nowhere near the amount of moving parts or complexity of an ICE vehicle. the cost is the battery, which, if replacement costs are anything to go by, certainly doesn't add ~30% to the cost of manufacture.

Which is why the stick has to come out, make them affordable to drive sales, or get fined.

The vehicle manufacturers are price gouging, nothing more.
 

Raven

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28k

vs

17.5k

Low end hatchback for comparison (Ford only do hybrids so far) basic model.

I'm sure plenty of people would be more eager to make their lives more difficult by driving an EV, if it wasn't for the obscene cost.

28k for a basic of the basic Corsa. Lol no.

And we haven't even got onto where they expect people to charge the things. For most people, it won't be at home. Dead tech already.
 

DaGaffer

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28k

vs

17.5k

Low end hatchback for comparison (Ford only do hybrids so far) basic model.

I'm sure plenty of people would be more eager to make their lives more difficult by driving an EV, if it wasn't for the obscene cost.

28k for a basic of the basic Corsa. Lol no.

And we haven't even got onto where they expect people to charge the things. For most people, it won't be at home. Dead tech already.
BEVs are 14% market share across Europe (from low single digits before the Pandemic) and another 8% for PHEVs.

The growth and share trends are only going one way, and if anything the shares would be probably be higher already if the manufacturers could actually make enough cars; there's a years' waiting list for the Ioniq 5, which by your reckoning, is just an overpriced hatchback.

Bluntly, there's no ZEV alternative to battery cars at the moment (hydrogen just isn't happening) and the clock is ticking, so BEVs are going to be the only game in town in the blink of an eye.
 

Raven

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BEVs are 14% market share across Europe (from low single digits before the Pandemic) and another 8% for PHEVs.

The growth and share trends are only going one way, and if anything the shares would be probably be higher already if the manufacturers could actually make enough cars; there's a years' waiting list for the Ioniq 5, which by your reckoning, is just an overpriced hatchback.

Bluntly, there's no ZEV alternative to battery cars at the moment (hydrogen just isn't happening) and the clock is ticking, so BEVs are going to be the only game in town in the blink of an eye.
It's hardly shouting "buy me" with that price, 39k for the basic model of a dreary marque. Just no and no for most people. I know a few people seem to live in some sort of bubble round here, but for average salary couples, that's just not going to happen, even if they wanted it.
 

Embattle

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Your dad had 45 grand to spend on a car, and he blamed electric cars being expensive for not getting one?

He could have saved himself 3 grand and bought a Tesla (assuming not second hand). But either way, it's a choice - he wanted a convertible and no hood is more important to him than environment (in the same way that range is really important to me and until they fix that an electric car's a no-no).

The subsidy only applied for cars below £32k. And it reduces a £32k car to £30.5k. It's not going to make any material difference any more.
As I said it was partly the wait which is considerable for all new electric cars. He also does the occasional long run to see old work colleagues. Plus it is his money and choice, if we still lived in London I suspect he would of favored an electric car.
 

Gwadien

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Doesn't everyone and their mum lease cars these days anyway?

Did this thing from the government effect leases?
 

Scouse

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Was about to post that.

Fucking ECHR. Human Bloody Rights. Take us out. Fucking illegal immigrants. Who cares if they're Iraqi victims of torture?
 

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