Dyvet Idea

[Septina]

he did it against tank heavy ones and only some of em because there were troubles against those groups.

You want a red carpet or?

That to me sounds like you're trying to give the impression of it only being used vs tank heavy groups.

 

[Gahn]

That to me sounds like you're trying to give the impression of it only being used vs tank heavy groups.

Oh fuck it, i meant that it used it against heavy tank groups and generally with groups we had problems with.
Anyway ... who gives a fuck? It's only memories :s

 

[Septina]

Oh fuck it, i meant that it used it against heavy tank groups and generally with groups we had problems with.
Anyway ... who gives a fuck? It's only memories :s

Indeed it is.

 

[Lethul]

maybe some alb grp with 2 armsman/2 armsman and friar

i fight the alb groups on limors regularly. there is no group with more than 1 BG afaik.

 

[Genedril]

We had 3 casters, 3 healers, shaman and a warr tho so that is kinda inaccurate.

Think NFD1 was running a tank group at the time & so a well played BG could basically shaft their DPS. Having met Sept on Waddle a fair few times in NFD2 I can safely say that Waddle was a very well played BG. Anyway, grapple the BG & let the tanks do their damage isn't an entirely daft thing to do even if it's mind numbing for the grapler & the graplee.

Must admit Jups did heal me from time to time when I ran with them & he even had his power leak horny moments (closely followed by Finche berating him for sodding off out of heal range).

Can't remember meeting Mani in fg RvR with NFD2 or 1 so couldn't comment on what happened there. That's not to say I never did, just that I didn't religiously remember every group we ever fought. Maelstrom mixed groups, SC, TT & some others stick out but only because Mael would smack us & the rest we'd meet regularly (though I'm not sure we ever 'met' TT as the headed backwards ).

Met a couple of 2bg groups on whatever the Avalon cluster is called (quite a few Warden/VW groups) though in the FG zone we were more likely to run into a BoF 3 group which isn't a huge amount of fun for a tank group.

 

[Septina]

Think NFD1 was running a tank group at the time & so a well played BG could basically shaft their DPS. Having met Sept on Waddle a fair few times in NFD2 I can safely say that Waddle was a very well played BG. Anyway, grapple the BG & let the tanks do their damage isn't an entirely daft thing to do even if it's mind numbing for the grapler & the graplee.

Must admit Jups did heal me from time to time when I ran with them & he even had his power leak horny moments (closely followed by Finche berating him for sodding off out of heal range).

Can't remember meeting Mani in fg RvR with NFD2 or 1 so couldn't comment on what happened there. That's not to say I never did, just that I didn't religiously remember every group we ever fought. Maelstrom mixed groups, SC, TT & some others stick out but only because Mael would smack us & the rest we'd meet regularly (though I'm not sure we ever 'met' TT as the headed backwards ).

Met a couple of 2bg groups on whatever the Avalon cluster is called (quite a few Warden/VW groups) though in the FG zone we were more likely to run into a BoF 3 group which isn't a huge amount of fun for a tank group.

Never said anything different, always said it's a valid tactic to use, especially if your main dps is melee oriented and the enemy bg'er plays well.
All my generated whine has been towards the dullness it generated and how incredibly annoying it was to stand 95% of the fights grappled and the rest of the time you ran around fleeing from the grappler not to get grappled.
I understand why people would use such a tactic, never said otherwise, all i've said in this thread (and others) is that it's insanely annoying to have it done to you and that i would most likely never play a class in that way.

 

[Raimo]

i fight the alb groups on limors regularly. there is no group with more than 1 BG afaik.

Well I wasnt the 1 who said theres a grp with more than 1 BGr.I just gave an example to what Kirennia said before.

 

[Genedril]

Never said anything different, always said it's a valid tactic to use, especially if your main dps is melee oriented and the enemy bg'er plays well.
All my generated whine has been towards the dullness it generated and how incredibly annoying it was to stand 95% of the fights grappled and the rest of the time you ran around fleeing from the grappler not to get grappled.
I understand why people would use such a tactic, never said otherwise, all i've said in this thread (and others) is that it's insanely annoying to have it done to you and that i would most likely never play a class in that way.

Wasn't aiming the non-valid arguement at you, more just stating that having played against you I'd understand why someone would think that grappling you out of the fight would be a useful plan if you need to get your melee dps working . I can understand why you'd whine as it's not much fun, don't remember Jups saying after a good grappling that he'd just had a lot of fun either. Sometimes you end up doing stuff that isn't that fun so that the group can win (n/s spam to interupt etc).

It's Mani who seems to think it's a stupid thing to do with a warden, when it can (in certain situations) be a very useful (if mind numbingly tedious) thing to do.

Not that'd you'd ever get me playing a warden either way .

 

[Cromcruaich]

Jupi healed you? Givf photos or it didnt happen!

 

[Genedril]

Jupi healed you? Givf photos or it didnt happen!

Didn't realise it was rare enough for me to need to screen shotting it. He's done it a couple of times. Though I did used to run away from him when he was trying to BG me shouting 'I've not got MoC leave me alone!!!!', got a few screen shots of that & even a little vid where it's me doing it constantly (makes me smile when I'm missing fg RvR).

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

It's Mani who seems to think it's a stupid thing to do with a warden, when it can (in certain situations) be a very useful (if mind numbingly tedious) thing to do.

What has chain grappling to do with grappling once at the right time?

 

[Genedril]

What has chain grappling to do with grappling once at the right time?

Chain grappling the bg out so that a melee group can do the damage was the point in question. As its no longer available it's a moot point, but at the time & with NFD1 running a melee assist it was a viable option when required.

These days Jups would (if NFD still ran on Hib) have options such as shield slam to get the enemy bg'r out the way. IIRC Dead tried to run a shield spec'd bm for a while in the group to try & slam bg's so the train could do dmg. Can't remember when he quit but it was a while ago so with that setup Jups would have to grapple (pre-warden shield which is where he got his name for grappling really). Like I said, you do what you have to make the group viable. While Jups may have enjoyed the notoriety he got from being a 'grapple-mesiter' I'm not so sure he enjoyed the actual act of grappling.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Chain grappling the bg out so that a melee group can do the damage was the point in question. As its no longer available it's a moot point, but at the time & with NFD1 running a melee assist it was a viable option when required.

Right, so if a BG'er is stuck to someone I assume chain grappling has little effect, I also assume that chain grappling versus a BG box has little meaning as the BG'er would BG one, guard a second and intercept for a third and the enemy tank train and the Warden in that box would just end up bombed.

So, what's left? Floating BG. Do you really want to chain grapple a floating BG'er? It's asking for getting killed by the enemy casters who need that BG. If you try to tank train a target with 3 tanks from the start he sees it coming and is at the BG'er or the BG'er at him. So you need to run for a different target with the tanks and the Warden is in place grappling the BG'er.

Pre determination/stoicism those tanks running in a group would just get rooted/mezzed/snared, unless it was 3 tanks using charge and Banelord interrupts. Even if they'd split, they'd run to a Sorc/Theurg/Cabby/Spritmaster/Runemaster which could really take care of one tank easily with the amount of toys, pets and good RR5s.

Just grappling, snaring or now also slamming the BG'er while he was on the way to a new target was better back then and is still now, it has the moment of suprise, it's less predictable and it's harder to adapt to.

Grapple-grapple-grapple-grapple... was just useless versus decent groups.

 

[Jupiter]

Think NFD1 was running a tank group at the time & so a well played BG could basically shaft their DPS. Having met Sept on Waddle a fair few times in NFD2 I can safely say that Waddle was a very well played BG. Anyway, grapple the BG & let the tanks do their damage isn't an entirely daft thing to do even if it's mind numbing for the grapler & the graplee.

Must admit Jups did heal me from time to time when I ran with them & he even had his power leak horny moments (closely followed by Finche berating him for sodding off out of heal range).

Can't remember meeting Mani in fg RvR with NFD2 or 1 so couldn't comment on what happened there. That's not to say I never did, just that I didn't religiously remember every group we ever fought. Maelstrom mixed groups, SC, TT & some others stick out but only because Mael would smack us & the rest we'd meet regularly (though I'm not sure we ever 'met' TT as the headed backwards ).

Met a couple of 2bg groups on whatever the Avalon cluster is called (quite a few Warden/VW groups) though in the FG zone we were more likely to run into a BoF 3 group which isn't a huge amount of fun for a tank group.

What he said, as for responding to Manisch cause he is talking bollox again, he still hasnt got his head around the difference between a caster group and a tank group. If we ran a tank group and we ran into a caster group why would i need to be bg'ing people? Most fights are decided in the 1st 20 secs, bg drops if a battlemaster heals so i usually dont heal in the 1st 20 secs. Plus if Septina's warrior was bg'ing somebody i would usually start spamming power leak until he moved and then grappled him (plus warriors had stoicism)

Since the shield spec i had grapple off my qb and i was able to have a bit more fun with the class.

BG box that made me laugh, just shows the limits of your play style.

Laslty anytime we ran into Manisch pre or post shield spec he died, cry more gimp.

 

[Cromcruaich]

Right, so if a BG'er is stuck to someone I assume chain grappling has little effect, I also assume that chain grappling versus a BG box has little meaning as the BG'er would BG one, guard a second and intercept for a third and the enemy tank train and the Warden in that box would just end up bombed.

So, what's left? Floating BG. Do you really want to chain grapple a floating BG'er? It's asking for getting killed by the enemy casters who need that BG. If you try to tank train a target with 3 tanks from the start he sees it coming and is at the BG'er or the BG'er at him. So you need to run for a different target with the tanks and the Warden is in place grappling the BG'er.

Pre determination/stoicism those tanks running in a group would just get rooted/mezzed/snared, unless it was 3 tanks using charge and Banelord interrupts. Even if they'd split, they'd run to a Sorc/Theurg/Cabby/Spritmaster/Runemaster which could really take care of one tank easily with the amount of toys, pets and good RR5s.

Just grappling, snaring or now also slamming the BG'er while he was on the way to a new target was better back then and is still now, it has the moment of suprise, it's less predictable and it's harder to adapt to.

Grapple-grapple-grapple-grapple... was just useless versus decent groups.

Man, very interesting scenarios, but it shows the difference between planning something 'on paper' and actually using it in game.

This isnt a theoretical argument, we used it to good effect in the field, so really unsure what you are trying to argue about.

 

[Jupiter]

Man, very interesting scenarios, but it shows the difference between planning something 'on paper' and actually using it in game.

This isnt a theoretical argument, we used it to good effect in the field, so really unsure what you are trying to argue about.

Well his Bg box idea just goes to show his level, he obviously never knew about all the aoe cc/shears/debuffs/dps etc etc

I always wondered where i got time to VR, TWF, EOY, BoZ, Throw Weapon, Slam, Power Leak, Buff Strip and the odd heal (i even used to slag our druids about me being in the top 20 of /stats heal) but its all rock n roll

 

[pjuppe]

i want a warden

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Man, very interesting scenarios, but it shows the difference between planning something 'on paper' and actually using it in game.

This isnt a theoretical argument, we used it to good effect in the field, so really unsure what you are trying to argue about.

Not my problem that you had success with grappling out some knobs.

 

[Appollo]

i even used to slag our druids about me being in the top 20 of /stats heal

They couldnt heal cos they was being smited!

 

[Gahn]

Not my problem that you had success with grappling out some knobs.

That's anyway better than having got none like you LOL

 

[Cromcruaich]

Not my problem that you had success with grappling out some knobs.

/shrug. Looks like you pressed the abort button on this discussion.

 

[Cromcruaich]

Well his Bg box idea just goes to show his level, he obviously never knew about all the aoe cc/shears/debuffs/dps etc etc

I always wondered where i got time to VR, TWF, EOY, BoZ, Throw Weapon, Slam, Power Leak, Buff Strip and the odd heal (i even used to slag our druids about me being in the top 20 of /stats heal) but its all rock n roll

Aye, and in those days any caster worth his salt wouldnt want to run into a bg box when their were 3 banelorders in the tank train. And additionally leave themselves all nicely grouped up for other aoe interupts.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

What a bunch of horseshit, BG box worked and works, just check VF's new video where the two Kobbies and the Troll barely move from each other in the first fight.

It prolly works under more conditions than Jupiter's perma grappling worked which you're trying to define as something that happened on occassions while it just happened everytime.

 

[Gahn]

What a bunch of horseshit, BG box worked and works, just check VF's new video where the two Kobbies and the Troll barely move from each other in the first fight.

It prolly works under more conditions than Jupiter's perma grappling worked which you're trying to define as something that happened on occassions while it just happened everytime.

Muahahah like Banelords abilities of nowadays weren't nerfed -.-
Keep on speaking of your only real experience: watching vids of others.
Go buy a cluepon, it's well time already.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Muahahah like Banelords abilities of nowadays weren't nerfed -.-
Keep on speaking of your only real experience: watching vids of others.
Go buy a cluepon, it's well time already.

Yes, I'm sure BG boxes work now better because of nerfed Banelord.

Smoke more.

 

[Gahn]

Yes, I'm sure BG boxes work now better because of nerfed Banelord.

Smoke more.

At least i buy quality drugs, your pusher needs a kick in the nuts instead uke:

 

[Jupiter]

Yes, I'm sure BG boxes work now better because of nerfed Banelord.

Smoke more.

yeah our eld, ment & druids luv bg box's noob... stop digging son of bugz

 

[Cromcruaich]

What a bunch of horseshit, BG box worked and works, just check VF's new video where the two Kobbies and the Troll barely move from each other in the first fight.

It prolly works under more conditions than Jupiter's perma grappling worked which you're trying to define as something that happened on occassions while it just happened everytime.

You're being a bit daft. There are no absolutes, no right or wrongs here. BG box can work, the grappling tactic did work. BG box would of failed in those days when banelord hadnt been nerfed and in those instances our tank train would of just split up. Like I said originally we used to to very good effect against a very good bg'r. Dunno what you are arguing about, other than the fact that its what you like to do.

Also those boxed caster are doing FUCK ALL unless theyve got moc. But whatevah.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Guys, it's not my problem that you're smoking the same grass either.

 

[Gahn]

Guys, it's not my problem that you're smoking the same grass either.

It's either not my problem that you are insisting speaking over an argument you don't know jack shit about