dont understand something

[Kagato]

you obviously do give a damn because you keep replying. and you are no better - telling me to 'grow up'.

if you think that only heavy tanks can kill chanters, then please tell me, why, on my eld just (rr7 light spec) sorcs and wizzies were blasting me to pieces, with their bolt range crap etc. you CANNOT argue that 1 class is OP when ALL casters have the SAME ability to kill ANY other class.

I did not tell you to 'grow up' until you had already been acting an asshole at me. And telling you to grow up is alot less harsh then half of what you said to me matey.

And again your making silly attempts to twist my words, no where did I say only a heavy tank can kill a chanter. Heck I wish that were the case. And no, your wrong, casters do not have all the same abilities. It would be a very dull game if they were.

Sorry about the insults, but it gets to me everytime people post from what I perceive to be such a limited point of view. Having played L50 TOA RvR in all realms on multiple servers, I think my view is a little less biased than many others. Balance discussions are so 2004/2005 (or earlier).

Now we're getting somewhere, would of saved alot of typing if you posted that first.

Anyway you'll all have to continue the without me, I gotta go to work

 

[RandomDotCom]

And again your making silly attempts to twist my words, no where did I say only a heavy tank can kill a chanter. Heck I wish that were the case. And no, your wrong, casters do not have all the same abilities. It would be a very dull game if they were.

not reading what i wrote in the right context, i give up tbh. You carry on thinking alb is underpowered and deserves all the relics. I will carry on killing you albs regardless, but only because i can, not because i need relics to.

 

[Kagato]

not reading what i wrote in the right context, i give up tbh. You carry on thinking alb is underpowered and deserves all the relics. I will carry on killing you albs regardless, but only because i can, not because i need relics to.

Don't tell me 'what I think' specially when your completely wrong.

I do not think albion is underpowered, I think albion is balanced in light of its greater population, i.e it manages ok with numbers but falls weak against equal numbered enemies, this is most obvious in small groups or 8v8.

I do not think any realm deserves all relics, I honestly wish relics were removed from the game completely. I could go onto the RvR 'relic' style bonus system I would prefer to be implemented, but that would be off topic, take to long to explain and I frankly CBA to type it again.

Yeesh and they say I moan to much, you really need to chill, your almost as grumpy as censi is these days

 

[censi]

I do not think albion is underpowered, I think albion is balanced in light of its greater population, i.e it manages ok with numbers but falls weak against equal numbered enemies, this is most obvious in small groups or 8v8.

why is it. go into details.

cuz basically you are saying you think albion is underpowered in that statement.

 

[pjuppe]

Im not sure if you understand this and just chose to ignore it or if its just beyond the even horizon that is your mind!

Anyway ill take a stab at pointing out, that its a huge difference between OF and NF. In OF it was possible to quickly retake things and do surprise attacks even with small forces. In NF it is not. There is instaport, doors that stand for ever and oils etc. Not to mention open castle solutions enabling ranged from above etc.

In one simple phrase: NF is just not the same as OF!

With that said...ofc the situation in OF wasnt good either...thats just why we really should try and not get the same situation back. The stupid comments of:"You had your glory days now its our turn." is just the death of Daoc. Not to mention the fact that Albs had their glory days with the introduction of NF (the first 3-4 months were completly dominated by Albs range) and Hibs had its hayday during middle time of NF (atleast on Prydwen not sure about excal though, think the Albs held on to that domination there. So by that argument Mids should have their time of OPness and relic hogging now not Albs!

/Charmangle

one might argue that even though NF is not the same as OF, the effects of relics haven't changed and from what i can remember mids mostly had str realics, hibs power and albs mostly had nothing. and midgard have had it's days in NF as well.

Interesting opinion. However it is just that - an opinion. And its a wrong one since daoc is NOT a skill based game its an ability based game mainly these days - its about timers (active or immunity) and abilites and dps if we're totally honest about it.

to some extent i agree with you but does positioning, MA:ing the right targets, interrupting the right targets, choosing when to NS and when to nuke, petting the right targets, using RA's at the right time have shit all to do with the outcome of a fight?

Without getting on the baseline stun bandwagon lets examine something - sorcs have the longest range mezz, yes. However the minute you touch the mezzed target the mezz is broken. However, a 1500+ range stun with a 1-1.5 second cast time while buffed that allows you to dish out damage in excess of 2500 easily in the 11 seconds it lasts with toa bonuses against a spec resisted target (thats assuming its not a det tank).

works if you're only thinking about solo RvR. other than that the caster can still be interrupted. and i don't know if i'm lucky but i've never been caught in a stun for 11 seconds (and no, i haven't purged or died in every stun either).

Tell you what lets trade 100 albs for baselinestun, shrooms and 3 good AE nuking casters instead of albions (the wizard, which nobody in their right mind rolls now really), and see how you like that?

why wouldn't anyone roll a wizzy? they seem like fun =)

Bains are nothing but a annoying caster with its taunt, they need a voideld to do some serious damage, u see many of those around? No, because voidelds sucks.

Vamps dont need buffs, sure, but then what? They are hardly an influence in realmwars. They are funky but thats about it.

i would rate bainshees abit higher than that and aren't vamps abit more than funky? i would think that a class able to compete with other buffed classes + banelord and charge would be a soild class.

Healingwise druids and clerics and healers are pretty solid, healers are harder to find with the needed spec though, aughealer is so damn boring to play its crazy, probably the worst class in the game when it comes to funfactor.

hey, you take that back! aug healers r0x0r!



overall i would agree that things are pretty balanced now. the biggest issue i can see is that mids are lagging behind in the keep siege area. and i don't think it's ability vise, but more on what classes they got their abilities on. hibs got animists, PBAoE on chanters and to some extent elds and bainshees. casters that are quite popular to play. albions got sorcs, hard nuke:ing wizards (popular casters) and monster rez that can be applied on all characters.

what midgard got to counter siege are healers, shamans (any active RR1L5+ shaman that hasn't got MoC1?), suppSMs, warlocks, banelord tanks, valkyries and thanes. instas, interrupts and dmg. midgards problem is that there are to few active healers, to few shamans (non BB's that is), to few suppSMs, etc. before the prenerfed warlocks midgard had a powerful tool and used it quite successfully as well, but since the nerf the warlock population has dropped and so has midgards ability to siege.

i think that if midgard had more players playing those classes, they would be much more successful. a group consisting of 3healers, 1 shaman and rest ... whatever, zerk, skald, warrior, RM, SM, Thane, BD, etc is a very powreful tool against fighting zergs.

 

[Fatload BoysDoCry]

I do not think albion is underpowered, I think albion is balanced in light of its greater population, i.e it manages ok with numbers but falls weak against equal numbered enemies, this is most obvious in small groups or 8v8.

Maybe 2 years ago, but now albion is more than capable of putting out 8 man groups that can compete with hib+mid.

 

[RandomDotCom]

Don't tell me 'what I think' specially when your completely wrong.

I do not think albion is underpowered, I think albion is balanced in light of its greater population, i.e it manages ok with numbers but falls weak against equal numbered enemies, this is most obvious in small groups or 8v8.

I do not think any realm deserves all relics, I honestly wish relics were removed from the game completely. I could go onto the RvR 'relic' style bonus system I would prefer to be implemented, but that would be off topic, take to long to explain and I frankly CBA to type it again.

Yeesh and they say I moan to much, you really need to chill, your almost as grumpy as censi is these days

Well, you just contradicted yourself as you said you think alb IS underpowered in a fair situation. Which my friend, is completely wrong. Play a toa'd hib, or a toa'd mid, and you'll see that albs are much stronger in a lot of situations. More ability to do PUG grps, more diversity of classes, larger populations by far. Classes with higher delve skills (hib base LT 165 -> alb base LT 179) and better combination of classes (cabby debuffs for self + sorc, sorc debuffs for wizzy -> massive dps). Alb is far from underpowered

 

[Shike]

i would rate bainshees abit higher than that and aren't vamps abit more than funky? i would think that a class able to compete with other buffed classes + banelord and charge would be a soild class.

No, bains damage just isnt better than most other casters despite what ppl are deluded to think. Test it for yourself and see. My chanter outdamage a bain pretty quickly. The taunt is only thing going for a bain, their manausage on the DD is damn nice too, they have no real CC, they are EASY to spot and MA and I can list many casters that just are better than a bainshee, SM, Eld, caba, sorc, theurg, BD for example, are all better casters overall than a bainshee. Dunno why you think otherwise. Explain please.

Vamps are funky in the way that they are nice as hell to solo with but when it comes to FG and also keepwars etc, anything more than solo, duo, perhaps trio aswell a Vamp is standing aside for BMs. My argument is that a good soloclass doesnt affect overall balance so much, if it was so that Vamps was uber in FGs and had impact in keeps, I would say otherwise. Atm its just a funky class.

hey, you take that back! aug healers r0x0r!

No, they are terribly boring to play... thats just how it is.

overall i would agree that things are pretty balanced now

which this discussion essentially was all about, Kagato however think that alb are underpowered in equal numbers which just isnt the case anymore, it was 2 years ago but not nowadays.

 

[Kagato]

Well, you just contradicted yourself as you said you think alb IS underpowered in a fair situation. Which my friend, is completely wrong. Play a toa'd hib, or a toa'd mid, and you'll see that albs are much stronger in a lot of situations. More ability to do PUG grps, more diversity of classes, larger populations by far. Classes with higher delve skills (hib base LT 165 -> alb base LT 179) and better combination of classes (cabby debuffs for self + sorc, sorc debuffs for wizzy -> massive dps). Alb is far from underpowered

No I said Albion is balanced with its larger pupulation in mind with its key abilities spread out across more classes, which is why in zerg fights albion is still as strong as the other two realms.

 

[RandomDotCom]

No I said Albion is balanced with its larger pupulation in mind with its key abilities spread out across more classes, which is why in zerg fights albion is still as strong as the other two realms.

sigh

 

[Sollac]

never jumped ship when we had disadvantage, just quit, wheres the fun in being zerged by 6 relic albs, and wheres the fun in zerging peeps when you have a massive advantage?

eversmallx......the reason hibs and mids love OF more than NF is that it suited them better and they always had most of the relics and albs where alwas the underdogs, but our weight of numbers helped in that fact.

No that NF suits Albs a little better, our weight of numbers which hasnt changed that much (except all the leet fotm players that left for hib/mid at catacombs) we are now able to fight back and win...

NO MORE WALL BANGING, hibs and mids dont wanna play no more....shame.

 

[RandomDotCom]

NO MORE WALL BANGING, hibs and mids dont wanna play no more....shame.

Your logic doesn't work. If mids/hibs don't play there's no more Alb either. Unless you pve ftw until GOA close the servers due to lack of population.

 

[Kagato]

sigh

Is it really so hard to agree to disagree. People will always have different opinions, live with it. Be a dull world if we all thought the same.

 

[pjuppe]

No, bains damage just isnt better than most other casters despite what ppl are deluded to think. Test it for yourself and see. My chanter outdamage a bain pretty quickly. The taunt is only thing going for a bain, their manausage on the DD is damn nice too, they have no real CC, they are EASY to spot and MA and I can list many casters that just are better than a bainshee, SM, Eld, caba, sorc, theurg, BD for example, are all better casters overall than a bainshee. Dunno why you think otherwise. Explain please.

Vamps are funky in the way that they are nice as hell to solo with but when it comes to FG and also keepwars etc, anything more than solo, duo, perhaps trio aswell a Vamp is standing aside for BMs. My argument is that a good soloclass doesnt affect overall balance so much, if it was so that Vamps was uber in FGs and had impact in keeps, I would say otherwise. Atm its just a funky class.

might be a crappy explanation but i've always had more trouble with bainshees and found them alot more irritating. and the vamps, that was just a guess with being able to compete with buffed chars, and having access to banelord and charge.

No, they are terribly boring to play... thats just how it is.

pfft, take it back or i'll report you for griefing

 

[Shike]

might be a crappy explanation but i've always had more trouble with bainshees and found them alot more irritating. and the vamps, that was just a guess with being able to compete with buffed chars, and having access to banelord and charge.

One reason possible is that elds and also chanters usually are played different from a bainshee, and there are also quite many of them, could be a reasonable explanation to why you percieve them as you do. Elds maintask is to be an utilitycaster and secondary is to kill things, chanters act mainDPS and also debuffer in many cases aswell as petworker, bainshee have two things to do, DPS or interrupt with the taunt they have, they are very limited in what they actually can do. Im not saying bainshees are bad, im just saying that they sure aint yber and certainly not to the degree where people like to put them when they want something to whine about Nubheads whines about Bainshees, those who know alil more would whine about things that really are overpowered in the bigger picture. ML9pets, casters damagedebuffs and such are things that comes to my mind when I want to pinpoint balanceissues. I dont think DAoC is unbalanced realmwise to a degree where I can point at specific classes anymore and say, that is overpowered, that class need a nerf, its more general things that need to be looked over today, imo ofc. (i dont mean to call you a nubhead because you pinpoint bains, Im just asking that you should look at the bigger picture instead and see the real problems out there)

Vamps, well I explained before, think you understood what I was saying, no further discussions is really needed I guess

pfft, take it back or i'll report you for griefing

Tehe, feel free! Aughealers are still about as fun to play as it is to watch paint dry. Which can be fun if one is sitting in the sun with a nice gin&tonic in the left hand and a good book in the right ^^ It all is what we make it to be. For me, its a boring class though

 

[pjuppe]

One reason possible is that elds and also chanters usually are played different from a bainshee, and there are also quite many of them, could be a reasonable explanation to why you percieve them as you do. Elds maintask is to be an utilitycaster and secondary is to kill things, chanters act mainDPS and also debuffer in many cases aswell as petworker, bainshee have two things to do, DPS or interrupt with the taunt they have, they are very limited in what they actually can do. Im not saying bainshees are bad, im just saying that they sure aint yber and certainly not to the degree where people like to put them when they want something to whine about Nubheads whines about Bainshees, those who know alil more would whine about things that really are overpowered in the bigger picture. ML9pets, casters damagedebuffs and such are things that comes to my mind when I want to pinpoint balanceissues. I dont think DAoC is unbalanced realmwise to a degree where I can point at specific classes anymore and say, that is overpowered, that class need a nerf, its more general things that need to be looked over today, imo ofc. (i dont mean to call you a nubhead because you pinpoint bains, Im just asking that you should look at the bigger picture instead and see the real problems out there)

ofc elds are annoying as well, but still i can't say that i precive chanters as a big problem. but i'm probably out on the deep end of the pool here since i don't precive ML9-pets to be that much of a hassle either

 

[Stallion]

as ice wiz, baseline stun on a level 49 rr2 in rogs > better than me tbh.


if i had a high (5+) rr hib or mid, i would be playing that at the moment.

for people like stajjijjon, the currrent relic situation must be a dream, i mean, common, 40% more albs to kill, most in rogs, ungrouped, clueless and free rp.

Well been trying to solo now for 2 days, and I cant say its bad rps. But its verry frustrating with constantly beeing outnumbered..

Tried respecing for better handling of adds etc (hi moc), but I cried at the damage so bad that my hair fell off...

So to conclude it from the past days. The higher population and higher weakening of ingame morale has made it verry hard. Could imagine it would be
very very good farming if you had a fg. But.. farming zergs gets verry tedious in the end without any real challenging group, while soloing is always 'hard'..

 

[Belomar]

No, [aug healers] are terribly boring to play... thats just how it is.

Agree with the rest of your post, but this is your personal opinion, not fact. It takes a certain mindset to like playing support classes, and augers are hardcore support.

 

[Andrilyn]

Agree with the rest of your post, but this is your personal opinion, not fact. It takes a certain mindset to like playing support classes, and augers are hardcore support.

Aug healers are like Clerics pre Shears, you heal and you interrupt (and pet control), not much more to it and the interrupting part is kinda hard when alot people you face have a bigger range than you do (not counting amnesia).

 

[Muylaetrix]

Well been trying to solo now for 2 days, and I cant say its bad rps. But its verry frustrating with constantly beeing outnumbered..

i guess the trill of trying to get away with it and the rush of beating the odds would make up for the frustration of being run in to the ground by a dozen or so albs once in a while.

Tried respecing for better handling of adds etc (hi moc), but I cried at the damage so bad that my hair fell off...

haha, i reccently got rid of moc cause the anytime damage made me feel so gimped. wp5, mom 5, int 3, dex 3, purge1 and some stuff instead of wp3, mom4, int 3, dex 3 moc 3 and purge 2. maybe over a 4 hour evening session, i now would say 1, maybe 2 times that moc3 and purge 2 would have made the difference, for the 99% rest of the time, the passives work better.

So to conclude it from the past days. The higher population and higher weakening of ingame morale has made it verry hard. Could imagine it would be very very good farming if you had a fg. But.. farming zergs gets verry tedious in the end without any real challenging group, while soloing is always 'hard'..

try solo with an ice wiz and learn a new dimension of `hard`. soloing is really no option for me.

and farming the zerg with a FG always seemed like the ultimate archievement and challange to me really.

 

[censi]

rofl.

 

[GrivneKelmorian]

Horner and all his bots would take up a good portion of it :touch:

please keep the cnut we dont want him

 

[RandomDotCom]

Tbh i can't help but laugh at the amount of bull albs come out with XD

 

[Stallion]

Icer aint optimal for soloing no, fire wiz is najs on the other hand. With rest put into earth.

and then again, when I play theurg i rarely get as zerged as on enchanter ;p

 

[raid]

bain, their manausage on the DD is damn nice too, they have no real CC, they are EASY to spot and MA and I can list many casters that just are better than a bainshee, SM, Eld, caba, sorc, theurg, BD for example, are all better casters overall than a bainshee. Dunno why you think otherwise.

I'm not too sure of that... bainshee has very nice set of abilities.

From the list I have sorc,theurgist,sm myself, and I have played bainshee a few times in FG. Granted, I dont have enough experience, but I'd probably pick it over any of my casters. Each of them lack something very nice to have: sm has no ranged ae or anything >1.5k range, sorc/theurgist has no ae at all while bainshee kinda has it all, except pet but I think taunt makes very well up for it. Dmg wise there isn't much difference really.

 

[Shike]

Agree with the rest of your post, but this is your personal opinion, not fact. It takes a certain mindset to like playing support classes, and augers are hardcore support.

and, they are terribly boring! hehe. Ofc it is my personal opinion, but fact still remains, healers are a problem in mid which was the essence of my original remark on the aughealer, just like bards is in hibb.

I'm not too sure of that... bainshee has very nice set of abilities.

From the list I have sorc,theurgist,sm myself, and I have played bainshee a few times in FG. Granted, I dont have enough experience, but I'd probably pick it over any of my casters. Each of them lack something very nice to have: sm has no ranged ae or anything >1.5k range, sorc/theurgist has no ae at all while bainshee kinda has it all, except pet but I think taunt makes very well up for it. Dmg wise there isn't much difference really.

What I base my conclusions is compability with other casters to pump out some serious DPS among other things, bainshees seriosly lack here since there isnt any voidys around since voidys just sucks. SM has easy access to a colddebuff from RMs if assistnuking (which is the way to do it in my book), theurgs have easy access to a spiritdebuff from cabys, sorcs from cabys, elds from chanters, bains from.. nothing. Taunt as said is good, so is their manausage on their nuke but damage isnt something special, NS isnt far off from taunt for interrupting, their shapeshift give them away on a mile, they have no real CC. Dont get me wrong, bains arent bad in any way, on the contrary, they are quite good but not as good to justify the amount of whine. Remove the taunt and what do you have, a wiz with no bolts and wiz even outdamage a bain with their mainnukes aswell thanks to the autodebuff they got. CAE has its uses in some ways but the damage from it isnt that great, only vs nubheads. Ive met tons of bains as alb and sure they can be ok but I fear a deadly assistpair far far more since those are the real killers out there and those if anything could actually need a tweak Sorc debuffing for wiz=wiz nukes for 700+ quite easy, caby debuffing for sorc = 500-600 easy from both with extreme castspeed, for theurg its 600-700+ easy, chanter debuffing for eld=600-700 easy. Thats sick damages but nobody whine about that since its debuffed damage and considered ok because of it, tone that down and DAoC would look very different overall I believe, tanks would definetely be more viable at least and if adjusted correct it would be a better game. Especially with the nerfed Banelordline with its lower radiuses, hopefully Mythic will have a look at casters damages soon, its tedious with 90% casters out there tbh.

 

[Muylaetrix]

Icer aint optimal for soloing no, fire wiz is najs on the other hand. With rest put into earth.

fire has uber single target dps (arguably the best in the game at the moment) but lacks (like any wiz spec) speed, decent cc, pet, lt,... to be viable as solo class.

but as fire, you can kill cloth between 2000 and 1600 range.

i chosose to be ice (pbaoe, ae-dd, single target dd, ae root) subspec fire (24+21 gives a decent baseline bolt vs cloth with all the extra toys my RR and equipment add)

and then again, when I play theurg i rarely get as zerged as on enchanter ;p

when i play my level 20 necro or level 44 friar in rvr, i don`t get killed as much as with my wizard... seems like people take detours just to have a shot at the high RR people.

which for me is part of the fun.


for me, i don`t like 1 vs 1 and don`t like 8 vs 8, for it seems that i/we are always at a disadvantage against equal numbers (maybe i just suck, i tend to believe i have the wrong class for that sort of thing)... if i can`t dictate the conditions.

 

[Belomar]

try solo with an ice wiz and learn a new dimension of `hard`. soloing is really no option for me.

No one is forcing you to remain ice, and like Stajjijjon says, fire is pretty good for soloing these days. I don't see you being able to play that "ice martyr" card when there are better options available to you, sorry.

As for speed, get a horse.

 

[Merino]

Shike

Well put arguments there and I agree with you, however

Ive met tons of bains as alb and sure they can be ok but I fear a deadly assistpair far far more since those are the real killers out there

Erm, wouldn't a voidritch/bain assistpair drop anything like flies as well? Voidie debuffs, stuns and bain needs two to three nukes to drop a caster with the high delve. And imagine the bolt love patch after which the bain only needs one nuke after the voidie debuff and bolt has softened the target.

Sorc debuffing for wiz=wiz nukes for 700+ quite easy

If he's a fire whiz he won't even need the sorc, thanks to the built in heat debuff. And there was never really an issue with the bolts against casters, top range and brutal damage at high RR (remember Alaron anyone?). Playing a Ment I feel every alb caster seems to hit harder than I do, and who in his right mind takes a chanter/ment combo in their group when they can have eld/bain?

I agree, in general damage/utility from some caster classes is over the top, due to fast recast (LT), top range (bolts, mezz, ns, taunt), debuffs. No fun to be a tank or orphan caster these days. Hope Mythic reviews their game once again.

Merino/Yeyi

 

[Void959]

I don't think bainshees are OP overall but from a theurgist POV I find them very effective because they can drop multiple pets (not just melee) far easier than any other class. As for DPS yes they'll be subpar to the average heat debuffing hib group or body debuffing alb group, but most mids don't run cold debuff, even those who have a RM generally use dark/supp spec, yet we all know how hard two assisting SMs can hit, and bainshees still outdamage these having the highest non-debuffed DPS in the game. UI taunt is not a huge issue as they can't really do damage while using it, but in certain situations it can be very useful. I certainly wouldn't say the class is subpar personally.

What I really don't get is how an overpoweredclasseswhinethread can get this far with barely a mention of my personal nemeses... BDs
I'm not talking about the ones who 'solo' and lagstrafe every meleer they see while pressing the loltap button every 4 seconds and laughing as the poor meleer gets the little damage he manages to inflct outhealed by greencon pets. Nor am I talking about the convokers who ML9 their commander and watch him hit spec AF buffed casters for 850 per hit, or even the idiots who choose one caster at the start of a fight and run around using every instant they've got on him for 2 minutes straight. What I really hate is the ml10 banelords with a skilled player behind them who can almost effortlessly, even once their BLs are down, keep 2-3 casters perma interrupted. Thankfully good BDs are rare but a group with one let alone two in is scary.