Do you support the opinions of the English Defence League

[Vasconcelos]

the simple fact is immigration is a problem and none of the big parties are willing to tackle it for fear of losing votes, so you can forget any sort of discussion on the subject till after the general election.

these groups exsist ask yourself why. yes there are out and out racists and naturally they are going to flock to such groups as these, but there are also genuine people who are sick and tired of the influx of immigrants into this country, me been one of em i really aint afraid to say it anymore. its not a colour thing which is what it usually ends up been factored to, frankly as long as you have a english passport i couldnt give a fuck. i am sick of walking round my local town and hearing just about every bloody language except english i am sick of our own citizens losing out on jobs so they can take on eastern europeans at basic wage. and i fucking sick of brussels telling us we have to take em.

we are in a bloody recession people are screaming out for jobs and what do we do? ye lets let a few more thousand immigrants in to fuck over our own citizens. its a joke and if we tell em no they scream asylum. so it gets tied up and they end up been here another 6 months at the expense of the tax payer.

so yes i do sort of agree with the EDL and even the BNP to some extent but i have no illusions about what they stand for they are racist fucks who only care about white english citizens,
personally my little cross will be going next to UKIP at the next election

Well, thats the price you have to pay for being into the EU market. It also reports you some nice benefits

Ofc, BNP, EDL, etc... are entitled to their own agendas. Support a referendum, win it and leave the Union.
Acting violent is not going to take them far tho.

 

[Marc]

So the venue of the event equals intent?

Not true.

2 for 1 meal deal would be quite a save if you're feeding a MARCHING group and cheap drinks are always a good idea in a group gathering, even with sponsoring.

The venue does not equal intent, otherwise you could apply that to a ton of examples that might ring "weird".

Only reason the venue is an issue because it IS the venue it is. If they were in a high class restaurant, would you think they were less intent on issue X? Would you think "Harmless little fellas those, eating at a fancy place."? I think not.

My sig says it all

 

[Aoami]

Really? I've heard/read a lot from these sorts of groups, and yet I've never quite heard a good reason for why immigration is a problem, they just take it as read that it is.

i asked that on page 1 and still havn't got an answer, so don't hold your breath for one

 

[chipper]

i suppose some areas suffer far more than others communities tend to spring up they tell their friends and they come over and so on and so forth. i believe leicester is quite a hot spot for immigrants my local town rotherham also has had a huge influx in the last 5 years i know this cos about 10% of my work place hires them in unskilled labour positions machine operators etc


dahakon you will find its a very small percentage of people who refuse to do jobs they consider "beneath" them and the majority of those are uni students who think there degree entitles them to a 6 figure wage packet upon leaving (generalising i know)

your comment about children i aint goin near there are far too many factors to consider that it would just end up in 1 long debate. yes everyone should work but also people are entitled to bring up children.

why is immigration a problem right lets see

crime levels are rising, a good percentage down to immigrants if you believe the press, i did try getting some figures but they were contridactory at best although all agreed immigration was a factor in rising crime levels. specifically theft
this has a knock on effect in our prison system and its quite literally spilling over.
also this puts a burden on us to support them rehabilitate them which costs the tax payer.

size of the country we are only a little country people are living longer we are up to 61.4million definately a factor that needs to be considered longterm
especially financially
we basically have to let any european in frankly this sucks.


ok just found some stats while writing this http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/mignr0809.pdf

half a million last year entered the country thats just the ones we know about.


integration, many simply dont want to. our immigration policies should be alot more strict and tougher they should have to have a job lined up before coming and be able to speak and write english to an acceptable level. and also have funds to support them upon entry and not be able to claim benefits for a minimum of 2-5 years depending on circumstances.

these are just a few issues i managed to find in 30 mins of digging on the net they are not fantasy they are facts and they are very real problems.

steps have been taken in the last 2 years and they would seem to be addressing some issues, however this could just as easily be attributed to the recession with the fact its just not worth it to come to the uk atm for the easy ride they've been able to have since the late 90's

 

[old.Tohtori]

My sig says it all

Well, majority disagree(as you can see from people saying they know what i mean) and you still don't know how to have a discussion it seems.

Also if you follow your sig quote, it's clear you can only misquote people to the intent of lies.

toht listen to em lol you want a nice meal you go to a decent pub/restaurant you want plastic food (ie microwaved) you go to a wetherspoons ( i think id actually take McDonalds over wetherspoons food the few ive been to anyway sure they arent all horrific) the beer is dirt cheap and everyone knows a plastered crowd is a rowdy crowd just the sort of thing when ya off on a rowdy march could have easily told ppl to meet up on a field beforehand. they went to get smashed end of

As said, i don't disagree with the Weatherspoons "fame", nor do i disagree with the persons involved, but the two are not adhesives as such. Sure, they might have gone to get plastered, they might have gone there for cheap beers, but they as well could have gone there for cheap beer&food because it's cheaper for a large crowd with different cash limits.

 

[Marc]

Well, majority disagree(as you can see from people saying they know what i mean) and you still don't know how to have a discussion it seems.

are you going to neg rep me again?

 

[Marc]

and no one has agreed with you, you moron

 

[old.Tohtori]

are you going to neg rep me again?

and no one has agreed with you, you moron

1: learn to use an edit button.
2: Got your panties in a bunch much?
3: In the aspect that i wrote, people did.
4: Oh gee, insults, how "tuff". Will you run like a little girl if i suggest a boxing match?

 

[Ch3tan]

the simple fact is immigration is a problem and none of the big parties are willing to tackle it for fear of losing votes, so you can forget any sort of discussion on the subject till after the general election.

these groups exsist ask yourself why. yes there are out and out racists and naturally they are going to flock to such groups as these, but there are also genuine people who are sick and tired of the influx of immigrants into this country, me been one of em i really aint afraid to say it anymore. its not a colour thing which is what it usually ends up been factored to, frankly as long as you have a english passport i couldnt give a fuck. i am sick of walking round my local town and hearing just about every bloody language except english i am sick of our own citizens losing out on jobs so they can take on eastern europeans at basic wage. and i fucking sick of brussels telling us we have to take em.

we are in a bloody recession people are screaming out for jobs and what do we do? ye lets let a few more thousand immigrants in to fuck over our own citizens. its a joke and if we tell em no they scream asylum. so it gets tied up and they end up been here another 6 months at the expense of the tax payer.

so yes i do sort of agree with the EDL and even the BNP to some extent but i have no illusions about what they stand for they are racist fucks who only care about white english citizens,
personally my little cross will be going next to UKIP at the next election

You've quoted a lot of hype put out by such parties, and given a daily mail style view. A very over simplified view, which you haven't backed up with facts.

When is someone who preaches against immigration as the root of this countries problems actually going to provide some proof?

Honestly, don't buy into shit arguments because it is the easy thing to do.

As for the "they took our jobs" argument, we live in a culture that worships social security, the dole is way of life for many not out of need but out of choice. Ask yourself how many of those jobs could be filled if epople actually tried to find work? There are many many problems far worse than immigration in this country, and they are caused by the natives (whatever colour they may be) that hold British passports.

 

[Ch3tan]

Also, you need to clearly define what you mean by immigration. Legal immigration is necessary, we would be fucked if all the legal migrant workers in this country suddenly upped and left.

I think what pisses most people off is our acceptance of any and all illegal aliens, forced through to us by a series of European nations who do not want them. This is a real problem and I agree this needs to be sorted, but the solution cannot simply be close the borders.

 

[Lamp]

There are now 3rd generation families none of the adult members of which have ever had a job in their life. Living off the state.

 

[soze]

I agree we need foreign workers i would just like to see some sort control. A rule where they have to speak conversational English would be nice.

But rules like other countries where you can only get in with a work visa and a job offer should not be too much to expect.

 

[Lamp]

Could you imagine such a language rule in Iceland. Icelandic is one of the worlds hardest languages to learn. Coversational icelandic would take friggin years lol

 

[Raven]

By saying that, you're insinuating that immigration is a problem.

Why do you feel it is a problem?

Not enough jobs
Not enough housing
Not enough public services
Not enough money to house/feed/clothe them

Last summer/winter they were camped out on a river in the town, they killed all the ducks and swans for food...

I have no problem with the concept of immigration as we as a country are built on it but we can't just take everyone who turns up. We need to look at Australia as a template for policy in immigration tbh. We can't even house our own people to a decent standard, the government are going to miss their targets on providing adequate homes for current tenants by a country mile.

 

[Aoami]

Not enough jobs - A lot of eastern european immigrants left because of this. Also, immigrants will take the shit jobs that no white english scumbag who cant get anything better will do because they think they're above it. This would also suggest that you think immigration levels are particularly high in our country. They're not.

Not enough housing - Again, where are these millions of immigrants are coming from that are going to run out of houses? There's not enough cheap afforable housing for young couples, because property is vastly over-priced in this country.

Not enough public services - Well there weren't enough jobs a minute a go.

Not enough money to house/feed/clothe them - Why?

Last summer/winter they were camped out on a river in the town, they killed all the ducks and swans for food...
- a bit like gypsys? why does no one hate them any more? because they're white?

I have no problem with the concept of immigration as we as a country are built on it but we can't just take everyone who turns up. We need to look at Australia as a template for policy in immigration tbh. We can't even house our own people to a decent standard, the government are going to miss their targets on providing adequate homes for current tenants by a country mile.
- We don't take anyone who just turns up. Ever heard of a visa? illegal immigrants? We can't house our people at a decent standard, but everyone else in the Eu manages because there houses arent ridiculously over-priced.

afs

 

[Ormorof]

There are now 3rd generation families none of the adult members of which have ever had a job in their life. Living off the state.

and there are thousands of prime candidates for the english defence league in exactly the same position in Hull, Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds etc and most of the rest of the north of England/Scotland, vast majority of whom are British/English

crime levels are rising, a good percentage down to immigrants if you believe the press, i did try getting some figures but they were contridactory at best although all agreed immigration was a factor in rising crime levels. specifically theft
this has a knock on effect in our prison system and its quite literally spilling over.
also this puts a burden on us to support them rehabilitate them which costs the tax payer.

according the the BNP 25% of all crime in London is down to immigrants, what they dont seem to see is by that same logic 75% of crime is down to non-immigrant brits no?

generally labelling immigration as a bad thing is stupid, the country should welcome immigrants who bring something new/better to the labour market, what most people gripe about is illegal immigration or asylum seekers bla bla bla and thats a long winding road of arguments that lead no where in particular

 

[megadave]

Immigrants aren't pests you can moan about and get rid of, they are human beings and have a right to be here.

 

[megadave]

also someone said 500k immigrated in but forget to mention the next paragraph that says 395k emigrated out

 

[Ezteq]

well now, the EDL is coming to leeds on the 31st of October, ...


i am staying out of the city center that day

aye, go trick or treating instead tbh! silly buggers doing a thing on halloween...don't they know every1 will be at home making pumpkins for my FHOT contest???

 

[chipper]

said many times before on other posts in other threads ive no problem with ppl who bring something to this country ie doctors etc coming over none at all those people we need.


ormorof put that into context how much of the population is considered an immigrant? we got a population over over 61mil. and i wouldnt put a whole lot of faith in what the BNP says

random unskilled spongers we dont need. and yes ill extend that to the assholes who are citizens of this country

yes chetan i agree its a problem about our own not wanting to work i agree whole heartedly that these fucks should be forced to work if able to do. yes there are bigger problems in this country but that isnt what this thread was addressing.

as for no facts then feel free to do some digging yourself. im not been an ass about i arent going to keep forcing stuff down anybodys throat, ive done a bit of digging none of it was from a political party because they are no doubt bias and this is what i found. if anyone wants to counter it thats fine im big enough to admit when im wrong even if i might not like it.

for the record ive never read the daily mail i tend to stay away from the papers cos they are generally full of shit.


believe that was me megadave and i didnt neglect to leave it out the document is quite long and containsts alot of figures. yes i think the balance was 114k total pop increase of non nationals. but how many of those going out where skilled proffessionals and how many were skilled coming in? (doubt you can get an exact figure tbh but its a point to consider) frankly id rather keep people here than swap them.
and yes we can moan about them till the earth decides to unite and share every resource with each other and work towards a common goal dont get ya hopes up for that happenin in our life time.

 

[ileks]

I'd rather they just totally nuked the benefit system... kills the white trash / dodgy asylum seeker issues with one stone. The idea of 3 generations of family on the dole makes me sick.

 

[kiliarien]

Finally chucking my tuppence in, though I will state the EDL are wankers:

It's a tricky issue at best, this whole "freedom of speech", unless EVERYTHING can be said without fear of prosecution and discrimination, by ANYONE.

Freedom of speech, ie. the right to say something does NOT mean the right for people to disagree with it in an aggressive manner isn't allowed. It merely means they are allowed to do so without being censored originally. You really need to support this Toht; freedom of speech is one of the few things (if not the only thing) keeping you going on this forum.

Toht, if you lived in the UK you would know that the assumption about why they met in a Wetherspoons is correct. I understand what you are saying, but it's really not worth arguing, people go to spoons to get drunk on the cheap.

In this particular instance I agree that they 'spooned it to get mullered. Any 'spoons that let that sort of gathering actually oocur surprises me. Both of the ones in my town would have had the coppers around in 10 minutes to turf them out. And yes. Even if it was a lot of them.

Really? I've heard/read a lot from these sorts of groups, and yet I've never quite heard a good reason for why immigration is a problem, they just take it as read that it is. While the "we are in a recession and they took our jobs" argument is persuasive, it isn't really valid, as most of the jobs that immigrants take people in this country consider to be 'below' them, such as cleaners etc.

While the ones that come to England and just sponge off benefits take the piss, many more people born in this country do the exact same thing, having a child every 2 years for the extra benefits and never working a day in their life's. It's up to what? something like over 2 million households in this country have never had someone in them work, how many of them do you think are actual immigrants? and how many people born and bred here.

People blame immigrants because they are an easy target for why everything is currently wrong in their lives, but again, people like the EDL and the BNP never quite explain how "sorting out" immigration makes things better for the rest of the people in this country.

To enforce this argument, in America it has been statistically proven that 2nd and 3rd generation Hispanic immigrants are much more productive than their indigent North American counterparts (based on GDP/GNP). Of course there is an issue with illegal immigration, particularly in large urban centres, but the solutions are very long into the future in my opinion. That said as already noted particularly with the Eastern European states who will get EU membership soon, there is already a trend of repatriated emigration. What Britain as a whole need to ensure it is wary of is totally unskilled workers from Africa, Asia and the like (let us not forget that many of the Eastern Europeans we have hosted have been reasonably skilled in a number of areas).

There are now 3rd generation families none of the adult members of which have ever had a job in their life. Living off the state.

There are 4th, 5th, 6th and even further down those generation British families (not even including what some would call pikeys) who do it. You seem to have not mentioned them.

The whole issue is of course massively emotive - The UK has over the last 50 years seen an influx from the colonies (which myself I find a good thing, I love the fact we're a least a little multicultural at least in our ethnic makeup as we are, not many nations can boast that, especially being an island set of nations). This is merely the next step.

The one thing that is clear in this, unfortunately. Is that some are embarrassed to be English. And that really saddens me.

(I'd make a Ginger Chris Evans joke or something now, but the sad gits who think that's being racist means I wont. Yes, people think it's racist. That's ever more horrible than taking the piss - suggesting ginger people are a different race ffs).

 

[Ch3tan]

Bloody hell 6 pages in and still on topic without flaming and arguing. WTF is going on??

Oh an Kilarien, I believe Lamp was talking about British people in his quote, so you made the same point as him

 

[Lamp]

I believe Lamp was talking about British people in his quote

yep

 

[kiliarien]

yep

Apologies Lamp - my bad. :worthy: I entered this late and only had 15 minutes to read everything and reply before I had to nip off out (which sounds a lot but really wasn't!)

It does show Ch3t as you've well pointed out, that people have views that cannot be derailed very easily which is nice in a way.

 

[Vasconcelos]

Actually, reading across news websites across Europe, one realizes that every1 of them (at least the western ones) have the same issues on this matter.
Wouldnt be bttr to solve a common "problem" with shared solutions? /puts rose coloured glasses on

 

[Ch3tan]

Actually, reading across news websites across Europe, one realizes that every1 of them (at least the western ones) have the same issues on this matter.
Wouldnt be bttr to solve a common "problem" with shared solutions? /puts rose coloured glasses on

The problem (in Britain) is that we are very anti- European, most of Britain is blind to the benefit of Europe and all we can think about is the loss of independence and Brussels controlling us with silly laws. We don't want a solution from Europe, and our party leaders need to do something themselves to restore some kind of faith in the political process.

But I do agree with you, it's a problem plaguing all of Europe and we seem to all be just trying to help ourselves, not solve the problem through teamwork.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Freedom of speech, ie. the right to say something does NOT mean the right for people to disagree with it in an aggressive manner isn't allowed. It merely means they are allowed to do so without being censored originally. You really need to support this Toht; freedom of speech is one of the few things (if not the only thing) keeping you going on this forum.

Never said i was against it, i was merely asking people if they truly believed in the freedom of speech(aggression being a nono) or is it more "freedom of speech, to a limit."

 

[Gorbachioo]

Really? I've heard/read a lot from these sorts of groups, and yet I've never quite heard a good reason for why immigration is a problem, they just take it as read that it is. While the "we are in a recession and they took our jobs" argument is persuasive, it isn't really valid, as most of the jobs that immigrants take people in this country consider to be 'below' them, such as cleaners etc.

While the ones that come to England and just sponge off benefits take the piss, many more people born in this country do the exact same thing, having a child every 2 years for the extra benefits and never working a day in their life's. It's up to what? something like over 2 million households in this country have never had someone in them work, how many of them do you think are actual immigrants? and how many people born and bred here.

People blame immigrants because they are an easy target for why everything is currently wrong in their lives, but again, people like the EDL and the BNP never quite explain how "sorting out" immigration makes things better for the rest of the people in this country.

Immigration is a problem because:

- It increases crime. Statistically immigrants (some more than others, more on that later) are more likely to commit crimes.

- It drives down wages. The more cheap labor you import, the less you have to pay them. The old argument that they do jobs that the rest of us dont want is mostly bullshit. They are human beings aswell and therefore try to get the best life possible. If they can get a good job they will.

-It decreases national unity. The reason why Europe has the best social security is because of nationalism. Each country considers itself a group of its own and people are more likely to give money to people whom they consider a part of their group. This is the main reason why America doesnt have as much social security.

-Immigrants vote. So far immigrants havent organized as political parties but that will happen some day. These parties will then try to make our countries more similar to the countries the immigrants are from. Since so many immigrants are muslims i dont want to see this happen.

But i think its important to realise that many of these issues can be fixed by choosing the right kind of immigration. In other words, not taking in any muslims. Yes i know thats such a racist thing to say but ask yourselves this: Dont muslims do the biggest amount of crimes? Arent they the ones who are most actively changing this continent to make it like their countries? Arent they generally the ones causing the most problems and therefore decreasing national unity?

Muslims arent the only problem group, but they are the biggest and in my opinion by far the worst.

....If you're planning to call me a racist i would apreacite if you also told us all why.

 

[Ch3tan]

Some trolling....

Dont muslims do the biggest amount of crimes? Arent they the ones who are most actively changing this continent to make it like their countries? Arent they generally the ones causing the most problems and therefore decreasing national unity?

I'd call you vastly ignorant and a troll. Not racist, some muslim is not a race.

Also where are your crime stats to back up your claim?