Do you support the opinions of the English Defence League

[megadave]

theyre nothing more than racists who use immigration as a cover to be racist. They dont give a shit if your an asian whos actually as English as anyone else (born and bred in english, your whole life etc) they see you arent white and wont accept that your english

 

[old.Tohtori]

You cant offer freedom of speech to 1 and not all so he has the right to say what he want as long as it does not cross the incite racial hatred lines.

And then it quickly becomes an opinion on what is and isn't inciting hatred.

I could say for example; "There are ways for this nation to grow stronger, to become better and you know what they are. Immigrant issue needs to be dealt with and i ask of every citizen to do what is in their power to do so."

It's a tricky issue at best, this whole "freedom of speech", unless EVERYTHING can be said without fear of prosecution and discrimination, by ANYONE.

 

[Vasconcelos]

Adding another dimension to the issue being discussed, many of those being pointed at as "inmigrants" are proly born in the country (2nd or even 3rd generation).

Remember France 2005.

 

[soze]

And then it quickly becomes an opinion on what is and isn't inciting hatred.

I could say for example; "There are ways for this nation to grow stronger, to become better and you know what they are. Immigrant issue needs to be dealt with and i ask of every citizen to do what is in their power to do so."

It's a tricky issue at best, this whole "freedom of speech", unless EVERYTHING can be said without fear of prosecution and discrimination, by ANYONE.

Saying I think all people with pink hair should die is ok imo
Saying I think all self respecting people should take to the streets and murder people with pink hair is where i think it crosses the line.

But your right its hard to draw a line under it as its on how a person understands the speech.

 

[Thadius]

Look at the "poll" I posted on ginger people.

There was much uproar when people failed to understand that it was intended as a joke.

Its how things are interpreted that causes problems.

 

[Marc]

Their itinary for saturday was

12.00 pm - Meet in Wetherspoons
5.00 pm - We march

Says it all really

 

[Thadius]

Their itinary for saturday was

12.00 pm - Meet in Wetherspoons
5.00 pm - We march

Says it all really

But would it be ok for them to;

12pm: Meet at the conference centre, free champagne, wine and food available, to discuss plans and policies for the next election.
5pm: We march.

Oh wait, that sounds similar to what the major party conferences do.

Your implying that meeting in 'Spoons is wrong and "evil"

 

[Marc]

But would it be ok for them to;

12pm: Meet at the conference centre, free champagne, win and food available.
5pm: We march.

Its exactly the same, your just implying that Weatherspoons is bad.

No, im saying that they wanted to get smashed first.

If you are planning a protest, why do you feel the need to have 5 hours worth of drinking first?

 

[Thadius]

Why do they have these sort of things at the major Party conferences?

They do exactly the same, get pissed before, after and during the conference./

 

[Marc]

Why do they have these sort of things at the major Party conferences?

They do exactly the same, get pissed before, after and during the conference./

Really? In the countless years I have been involved in some capacity with the Tories party conferences in Blackpool, I have never know any of them to get smashes before or during the conference

 

[old.Tohtori]

No, im saying that they wanted to get smashed first.

If you are planning a protest, why do you feel the need to have 5 hours worth of drinking first?

You're assuming they wanted to get "smashed" first.

The agenda on that 5 hour meet could hav a lot more, meetings, plans, discussions, open forum, preparations for march etc.

 

[Ezteq]

So... you want people to be able to express their opinions

Provided they match your own

Only B2 tbh....

and only when it comes to 1) what to have for dinner 2) what to watch on TV

as for the other matter, I've never heard of the EDL don't know who they are or what they did but from reading the posts I gather they are a prejudicial group and tbh I am not overly keen on those.

Have an opinion, express, share, discuss fine...if people disagree just go quiet and leave them be tbh try to force an opinion and you'll just end up with a row that esculates. I support the right to other opinions, I don't always agree with them and almost never support people when they act violently upon them.

 

[TdC]

Indeed, not all of them have hooligans in their ranks. Afaik, LPF is more like LePen`s or Haider's parties. Which leads me to assume, in the past they stepped up from semi-fascists/ultraconservative asociations to a serious contender party in general elections

yeah kind of like that, and while I personally do not take the LPF seriously, they are in the chamber, and their members do have government positions.

also, don't confuse idiots like Geert Wilders with people like Pim Fortuyn. imo the latter would have made it all the way to the PM slot if he hadn't been murdered. however it soon became clear, at least to me, that the people who had gathered around him were full of hot air.

it's a typical nationalist/fascist tactic though, to promise jobs and security to the frightened masses. you never hear how they expect to pay for it

 

[Calaen]

You're assuming they wanted to get "smashed" first.

The agenda on that 5 hour meet could hav a lot more, meetings, plans, discussions, open forum, preparations for march etc.

Do you even know what a wetherspoons is? It's where you go for the cheapest of the cheapest drinks, and a two for one meal deal for 5 quid or something.

They went the to get sloshed, before there rage march!

 

[Vasconcelos]

the people who had gathered around him were full of hot air.

Hehe yeah, when it looks brown and smells bad, well...

it's a typical nationalist/fascist tactic though, to promise jobs and security to the frightened masses. you never hear how they expect to pay for it

History books use to tell us how

 

[old.Tohtori]

Do you even know what a wetherspoons is? It's where you go for the cheapest of the cheapest drinks, and a two for one meal deal for 5 quid or something.

They went the to get sloshed, before there rage march!

So the venue of the event equals intent?

Not true.

2 for 1 meal deal would be quite a save if you're feeding a MARCHING group and cheap drinks are always a good idea in a group gathering, even with sponsoring.

The venue does not equal intent, otherwise you could apply that to a ton of examples that might ring "weird".

Only reason the venue is an issue because it IS the venue it is. If they were in a high class restaurant, would you think they were less intent on issue X? Would you think "Harmless little fellas those, eating at a fancy place."? I think not.

 

[Ch3tan]

Toht, if you lived in the UK you would know that the assumption about why they met in a Wetherspoons is correct. I understand what you are saying, but it's really not worth arguing, people go to spoons to get drunk on the cheap.

 

[Calaen]

No disrespect mate, but the chances of getting 50 hooligans into a high class establishment are fucking slim.

They are a bunch of tards with nothing on their minds but violence, and using politics as there reason to instigate it.

Stop trying to cloud their intentions when we know exactly why they were there, and what they were going to get up to.

 

[mooSe_]

So the venue of the event equals intent?

Not true.

2 for 1 meal deal would be quite a save if you're feeding a MARCHING group and cheap drinks are always a good idea in a group gathering, even with sponsoring.

The venue does not equal intent, otherwise you could apply that to a ton of examples that might ring "weird".

Only reason the venue is an issue because it IS the venue it is. If they were in a high class restaurant, would you think they were less intent on issue X? Would you think "Harmless little fellas those, eating at a fancy place."? I think not.

It's understandable what you're saying, and going to weatherspoons obviously doesn't prove that they want to get drunk and fight, but if you knew more about the EDL you probably wouldn't bother defending them.

 

[TdC]

History books use to tell us how

yeah mate. well, that bit is the really bad bit though

 

[old.Tohtori]

Toht, if you lived in the UK you would know that the assumption about why they met in a Wetherspoons is correct. I understand what you are saying, but it's really not worth arguing, people go to spoons to get drunk on the cheap.

I'm not arguing that it's not, sounds like a well known drinkhole where you don't go for happy-champagne-time, i'm simply arguing that it shouldn't matter.

You can say "They probably got wasted off their arse before that march", or that they are arseholes who want to drink&fight, but simply taking the venue as an indication of intent shouldn't be used as it can't be said for certain.

Like i said, even if those people had met at another bar, even some classy place, it wouldn't change the opinion.

I can see WHY it would be a correct assumption, but i'd like to think the members of this forum are smarter then use such general things as indicators.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not defending them, i don't even know them to go one way or the other, but i do believe in judging people by their actions, not their drinking establishment

 

[Aoami]

It's an indicator because there's a 99.9% they went to Weatherspoons to get leathered before they went out to march and shout. If you wish to side with that 0.1% of doubt, fine.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It's an indicator because there's a 99.9% they went to Weatherspoons to get leathered before they went out to march and shout. If you wish to side with that 0.1% of doubt, fine.

I would agree with that if 99.9% of people who enter Weatherspoons, leave intoxicated to the rim.

I'm guessing, as it's also a meal place, that it's not the case.

Even if there is an added suspicion from the character of the individuals, it's not a given.

That's like saying "Youth criminals become violent due to playing manhunt".

They were violent and would be violent, even by playing viva pinata, but if they do play manhunt , we shouldn't assume it'll lead to X

 

[Dark Orb Choir]

well now, the EDL is coming to leeds on the 31st of October, Leeds are at home on that day so it should be a right bloodbath, i expect much police fascism as they will be beating the shit out of the Leeds fans who are "obviously" members of the EDL......

tbh if they were going to do it right they should have waited till we played Millwall at home :england:


i am staying out of the city center that day

 

[Calaen]

I would agree with that if 99.9% of people who enter Weatherspoons, leave intoxicated to the rim.

I'm guessing, as it's also a meal place, that it's not the case.

When I said two meals for a fiver, I expected you to realise you were not getting a high quality meal

 

[Corran]

When I said two meals for a fiver, I expected you to realise you were not getting a high quality meal

depends on the wetherspoons... some them do cracking food for sod all money. Had decent meals in a few of them around various parts of the country. Sure they aint 5 star meals, but then I paid a fiver for a decent meal, as opposed to the £80 i pay for a top quality meal at a 5star place

 

[chipper]

the simple fact is immigration is a problem and none of the big parties are willing to tackle it for fear of losing votes, so you can forget any sort of discussion on the subject till after the general election.

these groups exsist ask yourself why. yes there are out and out racists and naturally they are going to flock to such groups as these, but there are also genuine people who are sick and tired of the influx of immigrants into this country, me been one of em i really aint afraid to say it anymore. its not a colour thing which is what it usually ends up been factored to, frankly as long as you have a english passport i couldnt give a fuck. i am sick of walking round my local town and hearing just about every bloody language except english i am sick of our own citizens losing out on jobs so they can take on eastern europeans at basic wage. and i fucking sick of brussels telling us we have to take em.

we are in a bloody recession people are screaming out for jobs and what do we do? ye lets let a few more thousand immigrants in to fuck over our own citizens. its a joke and if we tell em no they scream asylum. so it gets tied up and they end up been here another 6 months at the expense of the tax payer.

so yes i do sort of agree with the EDL and even the BNP to some extent but i have no illusions about what they stand for they are racist fucks who only care about white english citizens,
personally my little cross will be going next to UKIP at the next election

 

[old.Tohtori]

When I said two meals for a fiver, I expected you to realise you were not getting a high quality meal

That's neither here nor there though. Unless somehow the quality of the meal implied was meant as a "hooligans don't eat good food" fact that only brits know

 

[chipper]

toht listen to em lol you want a nice meal you go to a decent pub/restaurant you want plastic food (ie microwaved) you go to a wetherspoons ( i think id actually take McDonalds over wetherspoons food the few ive been to anyway sure they arent all horrific) the beer is dirt cheap and everyone knows a plastered crowd is a rowdy crowd just the sort of thing when ya off on a rowdy march could have easily told ppl to meet up on a field beforehand. they went to get smashed end of

 

[Dahakon]

the simple fact is immigration is a problem

Really? I've heard/read a lot from these sorts of groups, and yet I've never quite heard a good reason for why immigration is a problem, they just take it as read that it is. While the "we are in a recession and they took our jobs" argument is persuasive, it isn't really valid, as most of the jobs that immigrants take people in this country consider to be 'below' them, such as cleaners etc.

While the ones that come to England and just sponge off benefits take the piss, many more people born in this country do the exact same thing, having a child every 2 years for the extra benefits and never working a day in their life's. It's up to what? something like over 2 million households in this country have never had someone in them work, how many of them do you think are actual immigrants? and how many people born and bred here.

People blame immigrants because they are an easy target for why everything is currently wrong in their lives, but again, people like the EDL and the BNP never quite explain how "sorting out" immigration makes things better for the rest of the people in this country.