Do you like or are you disappointed about TOA

[Teh FnoRd]

And if all you want to do is PvE then please take your own advice and go out and buy Baldurs Gate* or one of those offline RPGs where all you do is kill AI monsters repeatedly. The stench of hypocrasy from your post is overwhelming!

Has it ocured (spelling?) to you that one strong aspect of any MMORPG is the social aspect? The oppertunity to interact with others and be part of a comunity and to reach common goals? "Go play one of those carebear MMos like Horizons then... " I hear you say. I haven't played it myself, but from what I've heard from people who went horizon and came back to DAoC they say that PvE is way better in DAoC. And on Barrys World (RIP) one could frequently read post from people comming back from other MMOs...
Imo the stench of dogpoo in your post is overwhelming as it has little to offer 'cept for flame and whine!

Now i will only take the cheese if its mature cheddar and comes with a nice bottle of Red Wine

Ofc! I am a civiliced child after all!

 

[Fafnir]

Fly with a harpy, its all worth it

 

[emma]

been reading all the posts here and i can say that Mythic did a mistake of releasing ToA to soon...RvR will be destroyd.ppl that can afford to buy ToA will have to stay out of RvR and that meens u can quit the game completly!

I havent bout ToA becuase i´m quiting this game...No Toa=No change in RvR=time to change game!

I have hade fun these past 2 years...i´m just gonna play EQ until june when EQ2 comes out...WoW will be the deathhammer for Mythic and Daoc in my opinion!

Why new artifact and stuff so the ppl with no Life can own even more in RvR so i hope WoW Will take the breath out of Daoc and mythic has to Close down the servers becuase no more money inc when ppl are leaving the game!

Mythic should have stayd to SI and Frontiers and not released ToA...maybe they should read more on heralds instead and c how good the Expansions really are to players...or read about outher games and try to impress this game better!
Daoc will Die when WoW comes...many ppl left when SWG came and more will be leaving when there are new mmorpg games released!

I hope u have your fun in RvR with your new "Uber" artifact and then u be alone when mythic screws up and all new and better mmorpg games take over!

Or maybe they should have stuck to there original plans and idea's of ToA items/ML`s not affecting RvR fights. As it stands with items like Battler, GoV, SwV with there daft procs, uber reactives or stupid abilities, along with things like Grapple, Bodyguard affect RvR in such a big way i widens the gap between the casual gamer, the random pickup groups and guild groups even further. Atleast from no on realms with poor RvR guilds, or low populations will have a damn good reason to zerg because there`s no way your "average" pickup group would stand a change vs a guild group with ML's and uber items now, atleast pre-toa you had a change (small one at that).

Since getting ToA ive been playing my warrior mainly, aquired 3 artifacts, 2 of which im sticking with the 3rd im not, its a pain to level and to be honest considering the time its taken me to get just 2 artifacts leveled to a reason level its very unlikely that i`ll be doing it all over again for my SB. By introducing ToA, mythic have shortened the games lifespam for me not lengthened it. There will be a time when i get bored with my ML10, UBer items warrior and with no other character uberized i`ll just quit because there`s no way i`d go through a month of PvE grind again just so my other char/s can compete.

It's bad enough already having to not only level a character to 50 and then spend the next week or so farming money and then god forbid finding a spellcrafter so you can spend your 6p+ on SC armour, now you have to spend another month getting to MLx and then getting items/artifacts again just so you can do something that should be considered fun in the game.

What use is fun(rvr) in daoc if it takes a decade just to get that stage.

 

[Melachi]

Has it ocured (spelling?) to you that one strong aspect of any MMORPG is the social aspect? The oppertunity to interact with others and be part of a comunity and to reach common goals? "Go play one of those carebear MMos like Horizons then... " I hear you say. I haven't played it myself, but from what I've heard from people who went horizon and came back to DAoC they say that PvE is way better in DAoC. And on Barrys World (RIP) one could frequently read post from people comming back from other MMOs...
Imo the stench of dogpoo in your post is overwhelming as it has little to offer 'cept for flame and whine!

You obviously failed to understand my post, as what I was demonstrating by saying he should play a PvE game only, was that he himself said he did not enjoy PvP and said that all those people who only like to PvP should play counter-strike. I fully agree with you about the social aspect of the game ect....

And Flame and Whine? You have no clue do you, these words are used as copouts these days, if I disagree with someones personal opinion its a flame? And if I don't like something its a whine?

I swear this is the last time I ever explain myself to one of you who reads half a post and then replys on it thinking he got my point, last time I justify your laziness.

 

[Svartmetall]

he himself said he did not enjoy PvP

Try reading my post in its entirety, what I actually said was:

...but then I don't really give a damn about RvR as it stands because RvR sucks ATM; I'm devoutly hoping Frontiers fixes RvR...

See? As it stands being the important phrase, along with the part where I say I devoutly hope Frontiers fixes RvR. When you read whole sentences, and absorb their meaning, it makes life much easier for all of us.

And Flame and Whine?...if I disagree with someone's personal opinion its a flame?

Disagreeing isn't a flame, this is:

The stench of hypocrasy from your post is overwhelming!

You're going out of your way to try and look hard on the electrical Interweb...it's not working.

 

[Teh FnoRd]

I swear this is the last time I ever explain myself to one of you who reads half a post and then replys on it thinking he got my point, last time I justify your laziness.

Oh I read every post very carefully. Don't fool yourself beliving anything else.
*points to Svartmetalls post*
Seems to me that you are the one just reading half the posts here.
And yes Melachi I call your post a genuine whine because it don't have anything constructive in it what so ever...

 

[Boobz]

Some of you guys will love TOA while others will no doubt dislike it. I read reviews, read posts etc on my regular 2 US forums and came to the conclusion that ToA simply wasn't for me and quit in December 2003.

I'm just after a bit of feedback about it really, what do you guys think? I know it's a shed load of PvE content and an extra small bonus for those in PvP but do you guys feel this is a good expansion, or do you need a bit more time decide. Or do you think Daoc is now more about forced grouping, thus taking much freedom away from the player?

One of the most concerning critisms from across the pond was about top tier crafting. Many players simply don't use as many crafted items anymore, instead opting for better quest/artefacts for new templates. Many crafters have blamed ToA for the collapse of the top tier market, is this also true?

Do you think Mythic have added 6 months of extra PvE grinding for PvP, do you think you will now feel as though you have to complete your Master Levels in order to compete in PvP? Do you feel forced into spending a lot of time farming and levelling artefacts for PvP?

Do you think power gamers will have a greater advantage over the casual player, and do you think the days of the casual PvP player are now over?

I guess I was probably put off by a lot of scare mongering State side. But I'm also not naive to think that an expansion will always be good for the game

I was wanting to know more but I know its early days

Personally, i am very impressed with almost everything about TOA. Stepping into TOA for the first time is the first time i have felt completely confused since i started playing back in the begining. You just dont know where to start.
The one problem is, as you have highlighted, that you are FORCED to PvE. It does give you a good reason to explore the zones though. Unfortunately, i feel restricting the mobs Artifacts level off was a big mistake. This just makes it more boring then it has to be. /looks at sharkskin gloves that only level off sharks.
Master levels can be a pain to get groups for, which means you fall even further behind. The amount of time they take means that if you work a lot of hours you are pretty much screwed.
Quitting without trying something is just a silly thing to do. But you already know that or you wouldnt be here asking about it would you?

try it, you just might like it. If nothing else its good for a laugh.

 

[Yussef]

I think some of you need to learn to understand the core aspects of a MMORPG :|

 

[Daedalus]

I loved ML1, and hated ML2. Don't know about the rest.

 

[kain]

I was really looking forward to toA... Now I freakin' hate it (personal opinion ofcourse).

Wait for group...... Zerg this... /stick.... zerg that, scream at /afk'ers (and yes when such numbers are there, it's gona happen).

I think it was a mistake to make ToA demand anything other than a fg to complete.

I just wasted 5 hours on ml3, and now I'm probably going to have to do it all over again cos the raid fell through.

I shall now list what I hate about it.

Numbers needed.
Huge time sinks, encounter repop timers and ML exp.
Artifacts (yes lets level some more for fun, 1-50 was a joy).
Underwater PvE (yeah fun for all of 5 minutes, rvr may be good).
Utter slap in the face for casual gamers(people who can't spend 2 hours forming groups).
*BUGGED TO HELL AND BACK, oh joy we have to do a step yet again cos people didn't get credit when they should.*

But yeah I'm gona carry on, because it's hard enough to get the ml's done now yet alone in a few months time and gathering the numbers is gona be impossible and I need this stuff for when Frontiers hits.

 

[lacroix]

Opinion of a casual gamer ...

Hm, lots of opinions, as expected - and actually I wanted to keep out of the discussion, but as so much is said about the woe's of "the" casual gamer (and I am very much one of those ), I thought I will just add my view, after all.

And I got to say - having had ToA for about a week and mostly been able to play on the weekends only plus the odd evening during weekdays - I really have been enjoying it.

I haven't found grping that much of a problem at all, even though I will admit readily it might be easier on the weekends than weekdays ...; ML quests are kinda fun enough in grp, at least as long as you don't get regular wipe outs

Graphics and underwater feel etc is nice, a bit disorienting at times but so far I got the impression there is enough I can do to "spend" my time on.

ToA's effects on the rvr abilities of the casual gamer will mostly be detrimental, I agree - but then this has NEVER been much different imho - and I've been playing DAoC since beta, too It's just the nature of the game that harcore, powergaming, time-rich players will have a significant edge over those who don't share this focus, time or intent <shrugs>.

Basically, what I like about ToA is that for the first time in a long time the game feels like DAoC did in the early days when everyone was new, starting out, grping anyone indiscriminately, helping out people (even if you have done ML step xy the 5th time already) etc. etc.

But that's just been my experience for the past week, but yes, so far I have enjoyed myself big time

 

[Garok]

Rg PvE

Repop time's need to be increased. Spent 6 hours trying to find artifacts last night with only egg of youth up, the rest all farmed.

To much Uber Baff from mobs so exploreing solo = quick trip to the healer and cash depleated.

Encounters seem a bit buggy with silly repop timers. (Tried Snake Charmers Weapon. Cleared snakes, NPC started attacking one of the party then decieded to wander off causeing the encounter to feck up so only thing we could do is kill him and wait for repop, after 2 hours gave up)

But in the end not terible but not as good i as though it would be due to everything needing about 3-4 hours to do. And too much sitting on ya backside waiting for Pop's.

Rg RvR

Tba tbh ..but i would imagin Artifacts and ML with slowy kill off 8v8 since

1) Guild Group with artifacts and ML >>>>>> Random group with artifacts and ML

2) Guild Group with artifacts and ML <<<<<<< 2FG of Random's with Artifacts and ML

Hence random groups will be more likely to run in Bg's and win .. rather than run solo and die. In turn Guild groups will get tierd of getting "Zerg'd by NoObs" and run in allience BG wipeing the randoms BG. Random's BG will join up with another Randoms BG a big fight will ensue crashing the server and forceing me to go out into the "Real World tm", which is probably a good thing.

But maybe true maybe not...

 

[Melachi]

See? As it stands being the important phrase, along with the part where I say I devoutly hope Frontiers fixes RvR. When you read whole sentences, and absorb their meaning, it makes life much easier for all of us.

So what your saying is.... you dont like RvR in its Current form, which imo is all thats really relevant, as Im sure that there is alot of people who dont like PvE not because of the idea behind it but because the total lack of AI in DAoC is amazing, its pure button mashing.....

Reactionary backedup with Anytimer, rinse, repeat....

So far the only changes ive really seen in ToA to the rest of DAoC's PvE is more of the ranged type mobs, who did exist in Classic DAoC but are more abundant in ToA now.

[Edit]Forgot I left this out

If PvE was going to be changed and made more fun and challenging(by this i dont mean requiring more time btw Mythic!) and then after that ToA came out then im sure all the RvR bois complaining about having to PvE wouldnt complain at all.

 

[gervaise]

Basically, what I like about ToA is that for the first time in a long time the game feels like DAoC did in the early days when everyone was new, starting out, grping anyone indiscriminately, helping out people (even if you have done ML step xy the 5th time already) etc. etc.

That was also the experience in the US .. at first. But a) there are only so many times that people 'help out' and some of the ML's are longer, harder, take more time etc. Posts in US suggest that lower level MLs arehappening less and there is a concern that 'truly casual or even new players' are going to struggle as time goes by doing any MLs. Time will tell of course but it has its own internal logic to it. Posts also concurr that ML1 is 'any fg' (or less); ML2 requires a more balanced group overall (not all parts). ML3 - starts to get interesting.

People being able to get ML exp from RvR has also made a change as well. People can choose to redo the uber hard, long, relatively low reward encounter again or go RvR were they can get exp, rps and ML exp. I will let you decide what you would rather do.

 

[Svartmetall]

I loved ML1, and hated ML2. Don't know about the rest.

I really enjoyed ML2 up until the fucking appallingly badly-thought-out 2.10 encounter...I mean come on...I'm all for it being challenging, but that one encounter is full of stuff designed purely and simply to kill, frustrate and piss off players.

Harpies just randomly coming and picking up players and dropping them in the sea, whereupon they don't even get credit for the encounter? That's total bullshit. Pretty much everyone in the bg I was in was preparing their negative feedback form to Mythic on the Herald site purely as a result of that nonsense.

Shame, because the rest of ML2, roaming around in the depths of Sobekite Eternal, was (IMO anyway) really nice...very atmospheric and some very nice drops.

 

[Iceflower]

> its pure button mashing.....

Sounds like the average day for an assistmonkey in a gank group

 

[Melachi]

Sorry to revive a dead thread but it was interesting and I just came over something that is important.

I have personally never said that RvR is end game of Daoc, but many in this post have said it isnt, well guess again!

Interview of Matt Frior.

WP: With most of the RvR action revolving around the level 50 crowd, are there any plans to add in Battlegrounds for the 35+ crowd?

MF : Definitely, although we haven't made any final decisions yet on exactly which levels get battlegrounds and which do not. (Read this part real carefully)The last thing we want to do is draw high level players away from the all-important final RvR endgame, so we need to be careful how we implement this.

 

[Korax]

Pre TOA, DAoC had 100% crap PvE. Alot better now, but RvR has been and always will be endgame in DAoC. Also, keep in mind that he might just had a bad choice of words there.

 

[Korax]

Also, what he prolly meant by saying that is that he don't want lvl 50 BattleGrounds to draw people away from the RvR Frontiers.

 

[Morchaoron]

You are right melachi this game must be a total drag for new players, no one to group with and this game isnt exactly made for soloing (VERY VERY VERY dumb mistake in any mmorpg, you should be able to 'progress' ANYTIME even when no groups are availible)

 

[Anarki]

tbh, i hate the game after ToA! :touch:

 

[RS|Phil]

I'd say that I'm neutral about ToA at the moment but I have a lot of concerns.

ToA in itself is a load of s**t for me (personally), as I PvE as only a means to an end, to get to 24, to 35 and finally to 50. Also to make money.
I've spoken to many people about this, and a lot agree that forced PvE is bent. Okay most of them have buffbot accounts like me. They HAVE those accounts so that they can rapidly solo up on mobs cos they want to do as little mob killing as poss, or rather as fast as poss.

I hate doing the MLs, I don't like to group if I can help it really, and I point blank refuse to spend hours farming scrolls to get an item to farm more mobs to level it. So much crap it's untrue.

My major concern is how it will affect me in RvR. I aren't talking grp vs grp RvR because, as lots of people have pointed out, that probably won't matter that much. You'll stil get well organsied groups pwning less organised groups and some fun can still be had.

The thing is, I like to solo RvR with my hunter. How is it going to be any fun when every damn person has stealth lore and there are 50 billion nodes laying about? How can I hunt under those conditions? It may ruin the stealth classes altogether IMO, though I am waiting to see on this.

My other concern is again with the MLs and artifacts : If I get into a fight with someone the same RR and same level as me, but he's got even less of a life than me and has bothered to do the MLs, am I going to lose every single time? That's what's bothering me, the fact that my RvR solo fun could be ruined, which is the whole point of the game for me.

So summing up :

> I don't like PvE, if I did, I'd go play the PvE server, as would many people, so why the hell do they force it on people?

> If I get seen all the time when stealthed cos stealth lore and the nodes are revealing me all the time, I shall be cancelling my account.

> If I find that I can hide, but no matter what I do I can't win because I'm facing a load of saddos who have too much time and have done all the MLS, I'll also quit.

> ToA alienates people who prefer to solo with buffbots, or just solo.
Mythic should think about how many solo people , especially with stealther mains and buffbot accounts, they will lose if this game is made arse for stealthers. I think it's about a quarter have bb accounts atm.

As I said, I'll wait till see how it pans out, but I feel this hollow place inside me when I look at the future of this game.

- Phil

 

[Deepfat]

Agree entirely with the quote above me.

As a player with 5 level 50s all xp'ed the hard way with no no bots and no PL etc I do object to repeating essentially the same process simply to keep all characters to a large degree RvR playable. Even if I do make ML6+ with one character that is now "RvR ready" by new standards of ToA I still need to repeat the same dull MLs with another character in order that I to leave myself a choice of characters/realms to play.

Two patches ago I had 4 RvR ready and one on the way RvR viable characters. Now if I work really hard I'll have one. Why the hell should I be forced into this position? I simply don't have the time, and indeed, the patience to prepare these characters in the way the game now demands.

Sooo what shall I do?

Well, in answer, I've re-rolled to Camlann. Yeah life *is* hard for a levelling BD but I've got a challenge that tests my knowledge and ability to play this game. When my BD hits 50 I'm hopeful I won't need the MLs etc. If I need them I'll do them. But not until.

Sorry if the post seems negative (it's not meant to be) but at least I'm moving my in game experience on as I see it.

 

[Scrote]

For a gamer like me, I prefer to spend the time I have in the game having some fun with some of the other players.
I do not like standing around for hours waiting to get a group for ML1. That's a waste of my time, and it'll only get worse as more people advance along the ML's leaving fewer people behind who'll never be able to find a group.

Yes TOA has given us new level grinding places, but it's just a new (big) zone with different mobs.
The over powered drops are getting ridiculous, the ML abilities too. It's a mad scramble for everyone to get these items and skills because, God knows, you don't want to be at a disadvantage in RvR do we now?

I think TOA is the last expansionfor DAOC I'll buy, and the sooner WoW comes out the better,then we can get back to pure MMORPG (and fun gameplay) again.

 

[Vandar]

The GFX engine is great, it runs far smoother than SI.

The big 3 issues with it though:

1) Almost all the ML's and Artifacts need 4+ players up to silly numbers.
e.g. You get a hunt organised, you then find the artifact isn't up. Yeh, good luck trying to convince people to hang around for potentially hours or come again on another night.

2) You actually succeed in getting an artifact Right, just need to find some scrolls. Dohhh. The drop rate on some scrolls is stupidly low around 0.1%, even worse, in 1.67 some of the scrolls only drop in the advanced dungeons you can't get in without being MLx OR they drop from high purp mobs and you can't solo them
e.g. I've killed over 800 blue con mobs to try to get a particular scroll to drop (imagine that time sink ) got approximately 20 scrolls for artifacts no-one intends to use

3) Levelling the artifacts. Slight differences here in the requirements. I heard 1 item I have takes up to 150 hours to level to 10 :eek2: Now is it just me or is that kind of restrictive and means only the 24*7 players will bother, bearing in mind the mobs that I have to kill don't level up any other item!

 

[Jace]

Pre-TOA : had a few chars on different realms which I could use in RvR, offered nice variety and had allot of fun.

Post-TOA : forced to join the artefact/scroll/xp/ml treadmill just to feel I'll be able to compete in RvR once again. Due to the ridiculously HUGE timesink I'm also forced to focus on just one char removing the variety and most of the fun I had previously.

Since TOA's release I've found myself, for the first time, actually not wanting to log on.

TOA is nothing more than an excercise in extremely poor game design:/

 

[chretien]

I really don't think the artifacts will have as much of a difference as people seem to think. People who know how to play their class with a couple of useful ML abilities and decent (SCed) kit will always beat powerlevelled noobs with uber items in my opinion.
All those saying they are 'forced' to do the artifact hunts to be able to compete in RvR are just fixating on the numbers and forgetting the human element - unless the ones complaining are the powerlevelled noobs, in which case a bit of PvE to learn your class might be good for you.

 

[Flimgoblin]

[Edit]Forgot I left this out

If PvE was going to be changed and made more fun and challenging(by this i dont mean requiring more time btw Mythic!) and then after that ToA came out then im sure all the RvR bois complaining about having to PvE wouldnt complain at all.

Have you actually tried out ToA? couldn't tell from your posts above - but if you have, and I mean actually going out and finding encounters and fighting monsters rather than just /stick to a raid leader or /followthespoilertotheletter then I'm surprised at you saying that - what do you think ToA is other than making PvE "more fun and challenging" - heck if 2.10 isn't a challenge I don't know what is.
(whether the harpies and the irritating lagpull snakes are "fun" is debatable but Runihura himself is cool)

1.1 might be a better example - can't zerg it, just have to use tactics - admittedly they're posted on spoiler sites and not _that_ hard to work out but it's a fun encounter (one of the ML1 trials I quite like re-doing - Rassa is another one - that one's a hoot, especially if you do it just 1fg with a gimped PvE group )

You don't need purge and IP to stand a chance at beating a yellow con mob.
You do need master levels, scrolls, ect.. to beat masterleveled, artifacted yellow con infil

You don't need MLs or Artifacts to beat an epic-wearing unbuffed RR2 armsman.
You do need IP, FH, Mastery of Blocking, Mastery of Parry to beat purple con double-hard bastard epic monsters.

 

[Jace]

"are just fixating on the numbers and forgetting the human element . . . a bit of PvE to learn your class might be good for you."

People aren't forgetting the human element at all, in fact I'd say it's quite the opposite. I know full well how to play my characters to the best of their abilities and because of this I fully expect to meet many such people in RvR.

I count on going up against people who really know their stuff so I'm going to need the advantages that artefacts can offer to compete for they will surely be doing the same.

By no stretch of the imagination am I forgetting how big a part the person playing the character has to the outcome of the fight but unfortunately I feel that 'skilled player + artefacts > skilled player'.

A 'bit' of PvE never hurt anyone but your perception of a 'bit' seems vastly different to mine.

 

[Svartmetall]

I PvE as only a means to an end, to get to 24, to 35 and finally to 50.

I don't like to group if I can help it

I don't like PvE...why the hell do they force it on people?

I can't win because I'm facing a load of saddos who have too much time and have done all the MLS

Wow...someone really is playing the wrong game.


You don't like PvE, yet you're playing a MMORPG. A MMORPG that has always had, and will always have, lots of PvE content. Unreal Tournament/Quake/Battlefield 1942/Counterstrike etc etc etc have no PvE at all.

You don't like to group, yet you play a game aimed squarely at group play and co-operation. This is a MMORPG...Time for you to check what those two 'M's stand for. Maybe you'd prefer something like Baldur's Gate, a solo game where it really is all about you you you?

You're not 'forced' to PvE. You don't like PvE? Well, it's not like Mythic introduced PvE in a patch. There are plenty of games with no PvE at all out there if you hate it that much.

...most tellingly, you think people who play the actual content of the game are "saddos"...? Arrogant much? If you can't be bothered to use the tools made available to you in-game, and make the most of the opportunities presented to you in-game...then you shouldn't whine about others who do. You complain about not being able to "win", as though "winning" is your birthright, yet you won't even make the effort to get the things which will allow you to do just that.

/dismiss