Denmarks 'Drug Rooms'

[Gwadien]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24725738

Opinions?

 

[Raven]

The sooner the government and the hand wringers pull their heads from the sand the better.

 

[Aoami]

if it gets off the streets of vesterbro that black skaghead woman with aids who goes around spitting at people and biting them, then i'm all for it

 

[rynnor]

If you normalise it more people will inject - plus the existing ones will live longer for the state to support - no answer is without a downside.

Edit - you are also talking about diverting NHS funding to pay for this - I can't see that sitting well with anyone.

It seems a fairly pointless halfway house - why don't they provide them with clean drugs as well? Like the featured woman - she's still stealing to buy the drugs so they are missing out on a large chunk of the possible benefits.

 

[rynnor]

Oh and trust the Beeb to pick the most photogenic drug abuser to front the story - I see drug addicts on the street regularly and they look as you would expect like the terminally ill.

 

[Olgaline]

They're going to do it anyway! Some will try and spin it into a discussion and an idea that it somehow condones drug use. wich simply is a load of bullcrap! Now with the risk of generalizing here, I'd say that often the people that hold that view, are often people who simply do not care what happens to people fighting with drug abuse, and they'ed much rather not have to pay for it (in thier own mind) thus they come up with silly stupid and narrow minded arguments, to justify thier own lack of human compassion.

/throws down the mic!

 

[Gwadien]

They're going to do it anyway! Some will try and spin it into a discussion and an idea that it somehow condones drug use. wich simply is a load of bullcrap! Now with the risk of generalizing here, I'd say that often the people that hold that view, are often people who simply do not care what happens to people fighting with drug abuse, and they'ed much rather not have to pay for it (in thier own mind) thus they come up with silly stupid and narrow minded arguments, to justify thier own lack of human compassion.

/throws down the mic!

Gonna be a devils advocate here, but surely if people -cared- they would get them off the drug completely rather than sort of encouraging them?

Maybe the shame and the prospect of death would give people a reason to stop

 

[rynnor]

You cannot get people who don't want to to give up drugs - its just a waste of money unless they ask for the help.

The most sensible measure is free provision of clean drugs under controlled conditions - it would make a huge difference to crime figures and stop vulnerable drug abusers ending up in hopeless prostitution (such as was revealed during the Norwich serial killers case).

Edit - the only unknown is what effect this would have on the general population - if we suddenly have an explosion of drug use then that would also be a disaster.

It needs to be piloted in an area for a decade or so to see the long term effects.

 

[rynnor]

people fighting with drug abuse

Many of the users are happy with their use just not what they have to do to supply that use - the more comfortable and easy you make drug use the smaller the percentage who want to give it up will get.

 

[DaGaffer]

Gonna be a devils advocate here, but surely if people -cared- they would get them off the drug completely rather than sort of encouraging them?

Maybe the shame and the prospect of death would give people a reason to stop

If that was the case they'd stop anyway. There's a massive problem in the centre of Dublin at the moment with junkies openly using all over the place (it doesn't help that some genius on the council decided to open a drug hostel in the middle of town without letting anyone know and all the methodone clinics for Dublin are in the middle of town so the junkies actively commute in...); they're not going to stop taking drugs because its bad for them or they are shamed into it; they're long past that stage.

So, choices are arrest, "moving on" or hide the problem (there's a fourth - "ignore", but the anti-social behaviour is making that increasingly impossible). The cops say they don't have the resources to arrest them all and its a waste of time anyway because they'll be back in the streets a few hours later (no-one's advocating filling up the prisons with these people). "Moving on" is what currently happens but they're back five minutes later, so all that's left is "hide the problem", which is where ideas like drug rooms (a politician here suggested special buses) fit in. Its not ideal at all, but its better than tripping over the twats in the street while they stick needles in themselves. However, I personally think it has to be backed up with proper penalties if they are caught in anti-social behaviour.

 

[rynnor]

Near work we have a gang of drug addict beggars running a number of pitches - the police repeatedly move them on or chuck them inside for a few days but they always re-appear to beg again.

One rather inhumane solution that occurs to me would be to put a large chunk of money in their collection pots one day - that would thin the numbers.

Edit - they all have court orders not to return to their begging spots - they take no notice.

 

[Embattle]

Quite a few issues that BBC morning news seemed to not answer when I saw it this morning, I doubt it will happen and I've my doubts it'll help much any way without other action.

 

[Chilly]

Just to add a small tidbit of info here, the States in the US that have legalised/semi legalised ganja have seen no boom in usage. VAST amounts of police time are freed up from having to pursue petty possession charges, too. I suspect this measure would be a net saving, frankly. Clean needles is less chance of infection and other related problems that the NHS ends up paying for anyway. Prevention is almost always cheaper than treatment.

 

[rynnor]

Just to add a small tidbit of info here, the States in the US that have legalised/semi legalised ganja have seen no boom in usage. VAST amounts of police time are freed up from having to pursue petty possession charges, too. I suspect this measure would be a net saving, frankly. Clean needles is less chance of infection and other related problems that the NHS ends up paying for anyway. Prevention is almost always cheaper than treatment.

Weed and hard drugs are not particularly comparable though. In the end we need to decide whether we want to treat drug abuse as a disease or accept it as a lifestyle.

From that decision comes the solutions you would choose - you can see why politicians are so paralysed on it though.

Edit - plus you risk the 'Amsterdam effect' of drug tourism if you unilaterally legalise - even the dutch have decided they don't like that now.

 

[DaGaffer]

Well, there's always the Brazilian approach.

 

[rynnor]

Well, there's always the Brazilian approach.

Does it work?

 

[Chilly]

Does it work?

Vigilantism? Of course it doesn't work.

 

[Olgaline]

Many of the users are happy with their use just not what they have to do to supply that use - the more comfortable and easy you make drug use the smaller the percentage who want to give it up will get.

I'm sorry, but that's just not true.
And it would be just as easy for me to agrue that tougher conditions increse the amount needed and frequency for drugs to cope with life.
And I'd love to see any, and I mean ANY! evidence that would support your claim that a majority of hard drug abuseres" (as in the ones to whome these drug rooms are aimed at) are quote Happy with their drug abuse.

This is not about condoning, accepting or engcouraging drug abuse, it is however, all about making life that little bit more bareble for people in need.
For alot of these abusers, the drugs are a symptom "the tip of the Iceberg" and to them, it will stand as that one thing that they don't have to worry about any more.
That little bit of ease to help, a "first step" so to speak.

It's such a small and insignificant justure for society to give, and if you really care, and you really want to help these people ? then why deny them ?
and does it in any way, shape or form prevent you or anyone for that matter from taking steps towards halping these people off drugs ? I'm sorry but it's a silly and cheap arguement.

 

[Gwadien]

I'm sorry, but that's just not true.
And it would be just as easy for me to agrue that tougher conditions increse the amount needed and frequency for drugs to cope with life.
And I'd love to see any, and I mean ANY! evidence that would support your claim that a majority of hard drug abuseres" (as in the ones to whome these drug rooms are aimed at) are quote Happy with their drug abuse.

This is not about condoning, accepting or engcouraging drug abuse, it is however, all about making life that little bit more bareble for people in need.
For alot of these abusers, the drugs are a symptom "the tip of the Iceberg" and to them, it will stand as that one thing that they don't have to worry about any more.
That little bit of ease to help, a "first step" so to speak.

It's such a small and insignificant justure for society to give, and if you really care, and you really want to help these people ? then why deny them ?
and does it in any way, shape or form prevent you or anyone for that matter from taking steps towards halping these people off drugs ? I'm sorry but it's a silly and cheap arguement.

This attitude is why I want to move to 'Scandanavia'

 

[Olgaline]

This attitude is why I want to move to 'Scandanavia'

Because you have a drug problem! awww..

 

[Gwadien]

Because you have a drug problem! awww..

No, I mean, the equality and the caring attitude that the Scandnavian countries have, the closest thing that the world has to socialism, it's brilliant, not caring about their position on the 'powers of the world' bullshit.

 

[Aoami]

Danes properly hate muslims though

 

[DaGaffer]

It's such a small and insignificant justure for society to give, and if you really care, and you really want to help these people ? then why deny them ? and does it in any way, shape or form prevent you or anyone for that matter from taking steps towards halping these people off drugs ? I'm sorry but it's a silly and cheap arguement.

Let me count the fucks I give about these arseholes shooting up on the streets of Dublin. That would be none.

I have no interest in "helping" them other than to direct them back to the rock they crawled out from under. The only reason I would be in favour of a drug room is it keeps them off the streets while they kill themselves.

 

[Scouse]

Maybe the shame and the prospect of death would give people a reason to stop

Well, why haven't they then?

 

[Bodhi]

Weed and hard drugs are not particularly comparable though. In the end we need to decide whether we want to treat drug abuse as a disease or accept it as a lifestyle.

From that decision comes the solutions you would choose - you can see why politicians are so paralysed on it though.

Edit - plus you risk the 'Amsterdam effect' of drug tourism if you unilaterally legalise - even the dutch have decided they don't like that now.

Only in the south, Amsterdam is still fully embracing weed tourism, and long may it continue.

I still haven't seen a single compelling argument for why having a smoke is illegal, and I've smoked the stuff for about 10 years now. It's had a hugely positive effect on my life, previous issues with Insomnia and IBS are a thing of the past, I'm far more relaxed of an evening, and ggenerally much nicer to be around. I appreciate it's not for everyone, but if it is for you, what's the issue?

 

[rynnor]

I'm sorry, but that's just not true.
And it would be just as easy for me to agrue that tougher conditions increse the amount needed and frequency for drugs to cope with life.
And I'd love to see any, and I mean ANY! evidence that would support your claim that a majority of hard drug abuseres" (as in the ones to whome these drug rooms are aimed at) are quote Happy with their drug abuse.

So you do want to get them off the drugs then? So how does giving them somewhere to shoot up advance that objective at all?

Most of them are escaping a crappy reality - unless you can radically change that reality then why would they give up? Their habit is all the really desperate ones have left having burned all their bridges with friends and family and with no job prospects?

All this move is about is getting them off the streets and decreasing the litter - don't think its about 'curing' them or treating them nicely - its just a sop to the majority who don't like to see them.

 

[rynnor]

Only in the south, Amsterdam is still fully embracing weed tourism, and long may it continue.

I still haven't seen a single compelling argument for why having a smoke is illegal, and I've smoked the stuff for about 10 years now. It's had a hugely positive effect on my life, previous issues with Insomnia and IBS are a thing of the past, I'm far more relaxed of an evening, and ggenerally much nicer to be around. I appreciate it's not for everyone, but if it is for you, what's the issue?

I don't disagree but this is really a discussion about injected drug use not weed.

 

[Raven]

So you do want to get them off the drugs then? So how does giving them somewhere to shoot up advance that objective at all?

Most of them are escaping a crappy reality - unless you can radically change that reality then why would they give up? Their habit is all the really desperate ones have left having burned all their bridges with friends and family and with no job prospects?

All this move is about is getting them off the streets and decreasing the litter - don't think its about 'curing' them or treating them nicely - its just a sop to the majority who don't like to see them.

You have an extremely narrow view on drug use and drug users, In most cases drug abuse is a symptom of the problem. The provision of drugs in a clean and controlled environment is the first step to getting off the drugs. These places can have professionals who can advise the users and offer support, far more so than some skag dealer in a filthy flat.

 

[rynnor]

You have an extremely narrow view on drug use and drug users, In most cases drug abuse is a symptom of the problem. The provision of drugs in a clean and controlled environment is the first step to getting off the drugs. These places can have professionals who can advise the users and offer support, far more so than some skag dealer in a filthy flat.

These rooms are about healthier drug use not helping them quit.

The stats for kicking injected drugs like heroin long term are very low even with a treatment program.

 

[DaGaffer]

You have an extremely narrow view on drug use and drug users, In most cases drug abuse is a symptom of the problem. The provision of drugs in a clean and controlled environment is the first step to getting off the drugs. These places can have professionals who can advise the users and offer support, far more so than some skag dealer in a filthy flat.

Moonbeams and roses. Most druggies have access to "programs" of some sort already, methadone clinics, needle exchanges, the whole palaver. Now they trade methadone, so that went well.