Denmarks 'Drug Rooms'

[Gwadien]

These rooms are about healthier drug use not helping them quit.

The stats for kicking injected drugs like heroin long term are very low even with a treatment program.

Maybe that's why the Danes are giving them somewhere safe to take it, rather than sending police around to chase them, they're spending less money giving them somewhere to safely do it, so A. the death rate goes down B. They get professional help, and aren't treated like criminals C. They're off the streets so they're no longer a burden and an eye sore to the rest of society.

Drug addicts usually have the under lying 'illness' of addiction, they shouldn't be treated like criminals, more like patients.

 

[Raven]

Moonbeams and roses. Most druggies have access to "programs" of some sort already, methadone clinics, needle exchanges, the whole palaver. Now they trade methadone, so that went well.

That's because that is the environment they are in. Take them out of that environment and give them help and it works wonders. A close family friend had a serious heroin addiction that ended up putting her in hospital and then a mental hospital. Suffice to say the help she received from professionals in a clean environment was far more useful than the help she received from Baz and the skag heads in the squat.

Most of the existing programs are generally utterly useless because they are designed to deal with the after affects of drug addiction and abuse. The only reason she got proper help was because she was sectioned and had nowhere else to go. Most programs are drop in centres that can only offer advice, as soon as they leave them they are on the look out for a fix, to feed that need they are stealing, they are using dirty needles and they are using low grade brick dust based drugs.

Not tackling the problem is costing the NHS millions for a start, just in cleaning up afterwards.

Its all nice and easy to just write "druggies" off but then that shows what a closeted life you must live. Have you ever met a genuine drug addict? They are human beings too you know?

 

[DaGaffer]

Its all nice and easy to just write "druggies" off but then that shows what a closeted life you must live. Have you ever met a genuine drug addict? They are human beings too you know?

I meet genuine drug addicts every day unfortunately. Anyone who works in central Dublin is guaranteed a show.

The only ones I've known socially (a couple of massive cokeheads and a guy I was with at uni who ended up on heroin and was the poster-child for "gateway drugs") were idiots. All were well-educated and I don't buy the whole environment thing at all, in the case of one of them he was rich and good looking and he pissed it away because he was a twat. Its too easy to class them as victims, 99% of drug addicts are responsible for their own fate.

 

[Olgaline]

I meet genuine drug addicts every day unfortunately. Anyone who works in central Dublin is guaranteed a show. .

Infact I'll have you know, one of my very bestest friends happens to be black.... ... ... get it ?

 

[DaGaffer]

Infact I'll have you know, one of my very bestest friends happens to be black.... ... ... get it ?

No.

 

[rynnor]

Its all nice and easy to just write "druggies" off but then that shows what a closeted life you must live. Have you ever met a genuine drug addict? They are human beings too you know?

Barely - they are thieving parasites who spread disease if you want to be accurate about it.

Frankly seeing them up close on a regular basis has made me a lot less understanding than when I had never met one but each to their own opinion I guess.

Nowadays I get to watch their gradual disintegration on a dailly basis - if anyones ever been tempted by hard drugs I could show you a few horrors that would put you off for a lifetime.

 

[Raven]

Do you hold a scented hanky to your nose when you walk past them?

 

[Bigmac]

Personally I think any drug abuser who is caught should be put into forced detox and rehabilitation and should only be released when they are clean. At least that way they have a chance at a cleaner life. I know it sounds simple but in reality it isn't but that's my view on it all.

 

[throdgrain]

They're going to do it anyway! Some will try and spin it into a discussion and an idea that it somehow condones drug use. wich simply is a load of bullcrap! Now with the risk of generalizing here, I'd say that often the people that hold that view, are often people who simply do not care what happens to people fighting with drug abuse, and they'ed much rather not have to pay for it (in thier own mind) thus they come up with silly stupid and narrow minded arguments, to justify thier own lack of human compassion.

/throws down the mic!

Well there you go, I don't give much of a fuck what happens to drug addicts.

Oh wring my hands.

It's not an illness, it's an addiction. Not saying it's easy to beat, it's not, it's fucking hard, and the longer you are a junkie scumbag the harder it is. That doesn't justify it though. Or justify safe rooms like this. It's always at the expense of someone else, right?

*NOW* they trade methadone DaGaffer? They been doing it thirty years or more. And Physeptone methadone too, and diamorphine. Or "wet" and "dry" amps, as we used to call them. Nothing changes, just more bullshit, and more trying to do the right thing.

 

[Scouse]

he was rich and good looking and he pissed it away because he was a twat - which was probably brought on by terrible indifferent parenting and a childhood that didn't teach him the lessons that you need to survive in the real world

Fixed m8

 

[DaGaffer]

Fixed m8

And surprisingly wrong. I actually met his parents on quite a few occasions when we were at Uni and they were nice down to Earth types who if anything mollycoddled him. But he became a cokehead after he started mixing with new friends (he trained as an accountant, ended up in the fashion industry) and he was pushing thirty; well old enough to take Mummy and Daddy out of the equation. The only person to blame for being a knob was himself. As I understand it he's turned things around now (my ex ran into him a year or two back) but I think the ship has sailed on his friendship with his pre-druggie mates.

And for the record there are loads of people who are or have been recreational drug users (me included) and don't turn into junkies, because we have the imagination not to be.

 

[Yoni]

And yet there are those who have addictive personalities who replace one addiction with another. Drugs to food to gaming to food to drugs, to exercise, the cycle is never ending and it is hard work to maintain the status quo. However the one thing helped me control the cycle was someone to talk to, someone who had no other agenda but to help me break the destructive patterns.

What I find particularly disturbing in this thread is the complete lack of empathy. Addictions are always going to be there and they can strike at any point in a life time to you, your children and your parents (ie after a problem with her back my mum had an issue with codeine). As a parent you can do everything in your power to educate your children the issues surrounding drug use, my parents did and I had a very normal upbringing, no broken home, no poverty, good education and yet I still manage even today to find myself obsessed with doing things that in the short term make me feel good, but in the long term could have a devastating effect Eg last year I tried to give up smoking and immediately replaced that need with shopping which crippled us....after Christmas I stopped spending money and stopped eating and over exercised... If it wasn't for two awesome friends I would have really fucked up.

Throddy you should also know that I admire your strength in what you achieved!

What I would say to those of you who think addicts are weak or skum is try to have an appreciation of how they got there and instead of mentally spitting on them when you pass them in the street consider how they got themselves into that mess and Dagaffer it isn't due to lack of imagination to be something different...

I believe that addiction is a disease as like heart disease, part of the propensity to become an addict is genetic and part is though poor life choices and in an addicts case, it how they choose to cope with their issues. It's funny but sitting on high horses telling addicts they should just quit, is like telling an overweight person to stop eating and exercise more, without any understanding of how they got there.... So please look at your own lives, are you sitting there being judgemental whilst being overweight, routinely drinking, sleeping with many partners, smoking cigarettes, using snus, taking painkillers regularly, using drugs and calling it recreational, over exercising, obsessively, drinking your morning coffee, in fact undertaking any action to get through the day... If so you are an addict too !

 

[Aoami]

Wanking

 

[DaGaffer]

And yet there are those who have addictive personalities who replace one addiction with another. Drugs to food to gaming to food to drugs, to exercise, the cycle is never ending and it is hard work to maintain the status quo. However the one thing helped me control the cycle was someone to talk to, someone who had no other agenda but to help me break the destructive patterns.

What I find particularly disturbing in this thread is the complete lack of empathy. Addictions are always going to be there and they can strike at any point in a life time to you, your children and your parents (ie after a problem with her back my mum had an issue with codeine). As a parent you can do everything in your power to educate your children the issues surrounding drug use, my parents did and I had a very normal upbringing, no broken home, no poverty, good education and yet I still manage even today to find myself obsessed with doing things that in the short term make me feel good, but in the long term could have a devastating effect Eg last year I tried to give up smoking and immediately replaced that need with shopping which crippled us....after Christmas I stopped spending money and stopped eating and over exercised... If it wasn't for two awesome friends I would have really fucked up.

Throddy you should also know that I admire your strength in what you achieved!

What I would say to those of you who think addicts are weak or skum is try to have an appreciation of how they got there and instead of mentally spitting on them when you pass them in the street consider how they got themselves into that mess and Dagaffer it isn't due to lack of imagination to be something different...

I believe that addiction is a disease as like heart disease, part of the propensity to become an addict is genetic and part is though poor life choices and in an addicts case, it how they choose to cope with their issues. It's funny but sitting on high horses telling addicts they should just quit, is like telling an overweight person to stop eating and exercise more, without any understanding of how they got there.... So please look at your own lives, are you sitting there being judgemental whilst being overweight, routinely drinking, sleeping with many partners, smoking cigarettes, using snus, taking painkillers regularly, using drugs and calling it recreational, over exercising, obsessively, drinking your morning coffee, in fact undertaking any action to get through the day... If so you are an addict too !

Sorry, not buying it. Its simply misleading to say "addiction is a disease", end of story. Yes, anyone can become an "addict" to food or coffee or whatever, but there's a key difference when it comes to heroin, and yes it is a failure of imagination. Most of the heroin addicts I see shambling around Dublin come from two or three communities; there have been heroin addicts in these communities for generations, going back to late 70s/early 80s. No one from these communities who decides to start taking heroin in 2013 doesn't have the example of wreckage it causes right in front of them. And that's why I have no sympathy, its not their inability to stop that I have a problem with, its the fact that they started.

As for other addictions, once again its a case by case judgement; I have sympathy for the adult smoker who's been trying to kick the habit for thirty years, I have much less sympathy for the teenager who takes up the habit in 2013. I have sympathy for alcoholics because unlike heroin, the social pressure to drink in the first place is immense. I have sympathy for the overweight and even compulsive eaters, because you can't not eat. But, the other consideration that always has to be taken into account, is if your addiction has direct anti-social effects for the rest of society (e.g. because you go around nicking everything not nailed down and having fights in the street) then sympathy goes down again.

Ultimately, even if I did have sympathy for for heroin addicts, so what? Their anti-social behaviour remains the immediate problem and that needs to be addressed, "victim" or not.

 

[Olgaline]

Personally I think any drug abuser who is caught should be put into forced detox and rehabilitation

Sounds good in theory doesnt it ? I wonder if that's been tried....hmmmm

Also This

What I would say to those of you who think addicts are weak or skum is try to have an appreciation of how they got there and instead

I believe that addiction is a disease as like heart disease, part of the propensity to become an addict is genetic and part is though poor life choices!

Lastly, as I started with, I've yet to hear one good argument against these safe houses.

 

[throdgrain]

Complete lack of empathy lol They are weak, and if they are going around stealing stuff from people they are scum, right?

 

[soze]

If you have any seen a child running holding a needle saying "Whats this" you would have to be for these rooms. I am also for legalising drugs and making taxing it. Get the Afgan farmers on side buy buying the poppy's off them and take all that money away for the TaliBanis. Then your drugies get clean and safe drugs.

 

[rynnor]

I have empathy but I see the dailly reality

If you have any seen a child running holding a needle saying "Whats this" you would have to be for these rooms. I am also for legalising drugs and making taxing it. Get the Afgan farmers on side buy buying the poppy's off them and take all that money away for the TaliBanis. Then your drugies get clean and safe drugs.

Yeah right - at the most I would provide drugs for existing drug addicts in controlled doses and on site not prescriptions for them to start selling on the streets.

Why would you legalise shit like crack and heroin that's so destructive to people - how is that empathy?

 

[soze]

I have empathy but I see the dailly reality


Yeah right - at the most I would provide drugs for existing drug addicts in controlled doses and on site not prescriptions for them to start selling on the streets.

Why would you legalise shit like crack and heroin that's so destructive to people - how is that empathy?

How is ignoring the issue helping. At the moment some addict will smash the window on your car and steal £10 then he goes and gives that to his dealer and gets a hit to god only knows what.

If they had a drug room where an addict could come and get a regulated fix like you stated they could offer it so much cheaper and then the homeless addicts will not have to Steal and Mug to make Johnny Sovereign Ring richer. And your functions users who do not have to steal to keep up their habits can buy clean safe drugs and the tax they pay would go towards funding the drugs for the homeless.

The major downside would be how many new people would try it if it is socially acceptable. But the good it could do is there to be seen.

 

[rynnor]

I believe that addiction is a disease as like heart disease, part of the propensity to become an addict is genetic and part is though poor life choices and in an addicts case, it how they choose to cope with their issues. It's funny but sitting on high horses telling addicts they should just quit, is like telling an overweight person to stop eating and exercise more, without any understanding of how they got there.... So please look at your own lives, are you sitting there being judgemental whilst being overweight, routinely drinking, sleeping with many partners, smoking cigarettes, using snus, taking painkillers regularly, using drugs and calling it recreational, over exercising, obsessively, drinking your morning coffee, in fact undertaking any action to get through the day... If so you are an addict too !

I have an addictive personality but I also have free will.

I dont agree that you just get dealt a dodgy hand and then are doomed to do this shit. If you get sucked into this disease crap you are effectively giving up personal responsibility for your own actions.

 

[rynnor]

If they had a drug room where an addict could come and get a regulated fix like you stated they could offer it so much cheaper and then the homeless addicts will not have to Steal and Mug to make Johnny Sovereign Ring richer. And your functions users who do not have to steal to keep up their habits can buy clean safe drugs and the tax they pay would go towards funding the drugs for the homeless.

The major downside would be how many new people would try it if it is socially acceptable. But the good it could do is there to be seen.

I agree and would like to see them trial this - it would have to be strictly controlled (administering the drug onsite only) so that you limit attracting new addicts but its the only thing left that makes any sense to me. Just providing a safe place to inject but ignoring the crimes that took place to fund that hit is stupid - thats why Denmarks experiment is a dead end compromise.

 

[Gwadien]

If you have any seen a child running holding a needle saying "Whats this" you would have to be for these rooms. I am also for legalising drugs and making taxing it. Get the Afgan farmers on side buy buying the poppy's off them and take all that money away for the TaliBanis. Then your drugies get clean and safe drugs.

I agree with this, going to Afghanistan and burning poppys was a fucking stupid idea, way to get the farmers on our side, but that's another story for another time.

-

So everyone else who's anti-drug room, and anti-helping druggies, could you not argue that clubs/pubs etc are a similar sort of establishment?

 

[Yoni]

I have an addictive personality but I also have free will.

I dont agree that you just get dealt a dodgy hand and then are doomed to do this shit. If you get sucked into this disease crap you are effectively giving up personal responsibility for your own actions.

That was not what I was saying if you read anything I wrote. I am proof that if you work at it you can overcome anything. I am a very successful business woman however I constantly have to keep myself in check to ensure that my need for extremes doesn't damage my health, financial security and relationships.

However some people do not have the support circle I have, some people don't even know who to turn to when life deals a curve ball, so their addictions take over to cope.

Addiction whether you like it or not is a disease, just like anorexia / obesity / depression they all involve free will....

 

[throdgrain]

The more time goes on, the more we legitimise stupid behaviour by calling it an illness. It's ridiculous I think.

 

[Yoni]

The more time goes on the increased understanding we have of our bodies and how they work the better medicine becomes and to be honest thank fuck, it wasn't so long ago that if you had epilepsy you were put in a mental institution and given a lobotomy and if you go back a relatively short time burned at the steak for being a witch......

I won't go into detail as to the historic treatments of being homosexual....

 

[soze]

The more time goes on, the more we legitimise stupid behaviour by calling it an illness. It's ridiculous I think.

I am not sure you can call a drug addiction anything other than an illness. Sure starting to take drugs and maybe doing it socially is stupid. But they are not the only reasons that people get addicted. And once you are addicted it is not a case of just stopping. One look at people on Krokodil proves that. If you could stop you would. Before you lose all the flesh on your leg.

 

[throdgrain]

The more time goes on, the more we make excuses for our behaviour.

It actually is just a case of stopping by the way too. And you can stop. It just depends if you want to. I have a friend whos been on methadone for 20 years, do you think that is too long?

 

[soze]

Not everyone has the willpower to just stop. In fact a massive majority don't. People know smoking kills them yet they still struggle to quit. One of the wives at our Christmas party is a drugs councillor and she has had people in tears after being told their addiction will kill them in a year but they can't stop. People who can are very lucky and very smug.

 

[Everz]

Not everyone has the willpower to just stop. In fact a massive majority don't. People know smoking kills them yet they still struggle to quit. One of the wives at our Christmas party is a drugs councillor and she has had people in tears after being told their addiction will kill them in a year but they can't stop. People who can are very lucky and very smug.

An addition, the compulsive behavior that is ridiculously hard to stop.

 

[throdgrain]

Not everyone has the willpower to just stop. In fact a massive majority don't. People know smoking kills them yet they still struggle to quit. One of the wives at our Christmas party is a drugs councillor and she has had people in tears after being told their addiction will kill them in a year but they can't stop. People who can are very lucky and very smug.

Meaning I'm smug? Yeah well so would you be matey No answers though, twenty years too long?