DAoC Forum announcement

[elryrith]

Well i am Excal/Albion Eyes and Ears so why not barrysworld as well

sign me up

 

[Telamon]

Originally posted by Sichama
During Hitlers reign in Germany the people where actively encouraged to report (snitch) their neighbours and family for anti-goverment behaviour....all this ofcourse for a better Germany.

LOL .. that's just lovely

"During Hitler's reign people used to wipe their asses too."

Ofc they employed people on one way or another .. spies/whatever.

It's not purely a nazi thing mate .. snap out of this please..

I'm so sick of reading stuff like that.

".. in my class we have someone speaking for the class. In the
youth groups Hitler sponsored they had that too. let's kill the
guy, before he nazifies us."

:mgwhore2: :mgwhore: :great:

It's FEEDBACK. .. it's HELPING the forums. Barry's world is not the 3rd Reich .. .. afaik. Is it?

 

[klavrynd]

Nice idea that works in theory but so does communism...

e&e is like being a vn blue helmet (or whatever they're called in english), you get to wear a gun, but you don't get to shoot with it.

hall monitor all over again...




ps : i didnt not say you're communists, just to make this absolutely clear

pps : i'm bitter because i didnt get to be mod last time

 

[Sichama]

Originally posted by Belsameth
so we're nazi's who'll put "abusers" in the gass chaimber, while it's ok for everybody to shout die IRL at eachother...

humanity never ceases to amaze me
I'd quote Einstein at this point, something 2 things being infinite, but I'd better not I think, lest I break the forum rules myself

First i never said you are Nazi's, no where did i mention gass chaimbers or anything relative to the murdering of jews by the Nazi's, i definately didn't say that its ok for anybody to shout die IRL at eachother, it's interesting though that you did read all of that in my simple post, wonder why you had to get so defensive.

So to make it clear and don't have any misunderstanding's my post is simple, the volunteer semi-official position of the forum snitch is an idea that has the same structure as the one i described in my previous post.
The "oh it's for the benefit of the community...blah blah" blabber says nothing to me as usually what is percieved as good by those in charge rearly is in reality also or it is used as an excuse.
These are the only two elements in my previous post...did i make it simple to understand now?...i hope so.

Do you want to moderate this forum by building a network of people that will snitch on the others thus making fear and distrust govern how people conduct themselves here, by all means do it no one can stop you and you surely will have enough self righteous, power hungry, "protectors" of the weak volunteers.

It is quite obvious that your intentions are good but im afraid that is not enough... after all as a true philosopher said in contrast of a moron and thief of ideas....the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by Sichama
So to make it clear and don't have any misunderstanding's my post is simple, the volunteer semi-official position of the forum snitch is an idea that has the same structure as the one i described in my previous post.

a snitch is someone who betrays someones trust and reports him. The E&E will hardly betrays anyone trust as everyone can see what is offensive and the E&E is hardly taken in trust with the info of the post. As he wont be telling about in game stuff neither about some private stuff of his friends as long as it isnt posted on BW, which by doing so doesnt make it private any longer anyway.

The "oh it's for the benefit of the community...blah blah" blabber says nothing to me as usually what is percieved as good by those in charge rearly is in reality also or it is used as an excuse.
These are the only two elements in my previous post...did i make it simple to understand now?...i hope so.

the E&E have NO power absolutly zero, if I understand it correctly. The only "power" they have is to report a post or bring some trend to the attention of the mods. They cant edit ppls posts, cant lock any but their own threads and certainly cant ban people. So where is the possible abuse of the E&E?
The worst thing that could happen is that he either reports to much, which means mods will read to many posts or he reports to little which might mean that the mods might moderate to little. However in both cases it will still be better than it is now, as mods will still read these boards and now have some extra help in spotting the offensive posts.

Do you want to moderate this forum by building a network of people that will snitch on the others thus making fear and distrust govern how people conduct themselves here, by all means do it no one can stop you and you surely will have enough self righteous, power hungry, "protectors" of the weak volunteers.

again there is no snitching going on as anything happening on these boards can be seen as trusting a person with information (as everyone can read it even without a BW account) and people wont fear the E&E as they have no real power. So the E&E wont be powerhungry either, as they dont have any power.

 

[Sichama]

I have made my point crystal clear, and i think it has been received and understood, no need to explain it anymore.

You want to get stuck up upon the symantics of the word snitch? fine change it with informer or with any word that fits best.

And power hungry people will grab an oportunity if they perceive that they will gain power, if they actually will or not is another thing.

 

[Damini]

My local community has meetings to liase with police and politicians to discuss issues they feel important.

This is obviously the road to fascism. I will alert my local anti nazi league, and we shall commune at dawn.

And arguing the symantics of a word? You know as well as anyone else that snitch has negative connotations. If someone is eyewitness to a crime, if they were refered to as a snitch in court, would that be fair? Its technically the same thing, but with a gaping moral distance between the two definitions. You argue well, so don't try and dismiss the significance of your words. Also, do you think that we should completely do away with reported posts altogether in order to prevent "snitching"? This forum is ALREADY moderated by reported posts, or as you so sensationally put it "a network of people that will snitch on the others thus making fear and distrust govern how people conduct themselves". Nothing is changing. If this situation is morally uncomfortable to you, then it should have been morally uncomfortable a long time prior to my announcement.

I can understand people disagreeing with the idea, but reducing it to emotive language such as the type you'd find in 50's america degrades your argument. Ironically, I personally find more totalitarian and oppressive principles involved in the silencing of the community voice, rather than the encouragement of it.

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by Sichama
You want to get stuck up upon the symantics of the word snitch? fine change it with informer or with any word that fits best.

And power hungry people will grab an oportunity if they perceive that they will gain power, if they actually will or not is another thing.

it wasnt just the word snitch it was the whole idea you have behind it. You said there will be fear and distrust:

Do you want to moderate this forum by building a network of people that will snitch on the others thus making fear and distrust govern how people conduct themselves here,

^^ as said the E&E will not cause fear as the only thing they can do is report posts, which is already an option for everyone. Except instead of reporting posts that they find themself offensive, the E&E will check if something is offensive for the complete community.

About power, what power? The power to report posts? Everyone has that power, it isnt something new. Everyone will still be able to do it, the only slight difference is that mods might check reports of the E&E before checking the regular reported posts.

And I got your point, I just find it completly wrong. The E&E who only report the wrong posts, will get ignored/booted. Its still the same mods who are in power and have the only rights of editing posts/deleting and closing threads/banning people. The same people will be judging posts, but hopefully a little bit more effective now as they can find the bad posts/threads faster with this system.

 

[Sichama]

I was hoping you would answer Damini...
it is true the word snitch has negative connotations and i used it because i believe that people rearly do something because they feel its right to do so, i believe people will start reporting anything and everything they perceive as possibly insulting however minor it might be just because they have the semi-official right to do so.

No i don't believe that getting rid of the post reporting system alltogether is a good thing because, reporting a seriously ofensive post i can understand, but by my personal experience people enjoy taking shots at others even for a slip of a tongue or an overreaction after they have been baited, tricked or provoked into saying something that they wouldn't in normal situations and they really enjoy it when by their actions someone gets banned, considering it as their personal victory.

It was my understanding from the day i discovered BW forums as an oficial meeting place for DAoC players that although i have the option to report an ofensive post, it was not something to overuse or to use for things that are minor, in fact i had the idea that taking advantage of the system may be more ofensive than a single ofensive post. The E&E system i believe will be viewd as the right to spam you, the mod's, with reports for whatever reason.

So i still believe that although there will be reports that will be justified the majority will be plain "snitching".
I must say that this is my personal view of things as i have no faith in people or the human race.

So you see i was not using the word to add to the meaning of my post or to decrade it i honestly think this system will deteriorate into snitching.

Although i get a feeling of what you meen by saying that my language is...emotive language such as the type you'd find in 50's america... i can't really say i totaly understand it, and although i don't expect a language lesson or something, i can only say it was unintentional.

As with everything else in life nothing is black or white i understand your argument that silencing the community would be more totalitarian and oppressive but that would hold true if there was no way for someone to reach you, at this point there is.

Anyway i don't want to continue arguing for arguments sake i suppose that if you think that something is needed than you should try it out, i just hope that by our argument some serious questions might arise for you to consider.

By the way i will pretend your two first lines don't exist because then this discussion will become completely academic.

 

['Shy]

OMG, far too many long words tbh

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Sichama, if you don't like the response when you post a very inflametory comparison, you should moderate your choice of examples in the first place.

You say you didn't call anyone a nazi, but your choice of post blatantly inferred this. You know it, the people reading this thread know it, and no amount of subsequent long posts can cover this up.

Comparing BW to a Nazi regime is fairly laughable. Its only that it appears not to be a joke that is the problem.

Your choice of comparison was ill advised and I think not appreciated in any way by anyone. Free speech is not the right to abuse people with impunity and there will always be people that will try, so there must always be people that must attempt to prevent it.

To be perfectly blunt, if you don't like a strong response to your own posts, apply some more thought before sticking something as ridiculous as that on a public forum.

You also place a slur on the people that try to help in these ways, saying that they'll just use it for their own petty ends. Good grief.
Yes, you do get people like that. But not everyone and anyone that tries gets weeded out fairly quickly - these forums exist by consensus, not by some imaginary iron heel . I also fail to see what power you imagine arises from being able to help moderate forums without the ability to act on anything other than to refer on.

Trying to sound reasonable when you take a very nasty dig doesn't wash. You deliberately took a pop. No amount of long winded arguments can cover it up. Actually, most of your arguments chase themselves in circles and are self-negating, rather than making your argument more convincing. They could be taken as rambling or mulling if you weren't pointedly making a dig at people every few sentences.

Makes me laugh a bit when you admit in your own post you'll ignore the bits of posts that others make that don't suit you

A lot of pops at a lot of people just trying to make things work and you attempted to cover it over.

Doesn't work.

 

[Tesla Monkor]

/hug Roo.

Stop teasing my poor Alchemist in Hagall. :/

 

[Tyka]

People will always call others who have more "power" nazi's.

I think you should be more strict and give 1 warning and then a ban like someone else already suggested..

It's like kindergarten, well I have'nt posted here for a while but when I was around here everyone posted +1 and crap in every thread just to say something..

 

[Belsameth]

that has been (mostly) stamped out, luckily.
now only the useless flaming to go

 

[Sichama]

Ok an answer is needed here or else someone will claim i ignored your post and this will only prove it right by your saying that i do it to post's that don't suit me...something i never said though but its not entirely untrue either.

Some very good points in your post but not entirely accurate.
First i do not dislike any kind of responses in my posts, now that doesn't meen that i don't like some, but to be honest i am a very self centered, cynical and insensitive person so no amount of flaming, swearing or any other kind of ofensive or hostile responses will even touch me it might seem i ignore them because they don't suit me, truth is that i see the words and if they are trying to wound me in any way i just go over them forgoten the instant i read the next post i don't dislike strong responses that have reason and arguments behind them even if they are totaly against me, actually i like them more than the you are right posts. By the way i liked both yours and Damini's responses.

I said i didn't call anyone a Nazi and i stick to it, i made a comparison of tactics and explanations, ofcourse some will translate it the way you described, others would ask themselves what does he want to say by this? maybe the hint that it's similar shows an error in our decision?, ofcourse the majority won't think that way the majority will flame me for calling them Nazi's, fine whatever /shrug.

I don't agree with anything that attempts to prevent or try to lessen what i think are the bigest rights in life, not for any reason because if one reason can be accepted then others can also, this higher rights of life are, the right to live, the right of freedom, the right of free speach, the right for love etc.

That meens that yes i believe someone should have the right to say "i hope you die IRL" for example because freedom of speach is extremely more important than hurting the feelings of some over sensitive person, but thats just me and i have accepted the fact that these higher rights although generaly accepted in theory, in practise people just don't want to give them to others so they accept they won't have them also.

I have allready stated that i don't have faith in people or the human kind, in fact when i see someone trying to help although i accept it might be honest my first reaction is allways distrast because i believe that the majority of people only claim to want to help you if they have something to gain from it, this is my personal view of things and can't be changed by some words in a forum or a few arguments, so i guess it's not a big surprise i try to place a slur or try to take a dig at people in my arguments, its the way i feel.

As for what the power i think the E&E will have is not relevant, it does not matter if i think they will have power or not, it does not even matter if they will really have any or not, what matters is if people that will think they will have power will volunteer because of it.

I do't understan what you meen when you say i deliberately took a pop, i posted what i did fully aware of what it is though, and how alot of people would react to it, i never said i didn't and i surely don't want to cover anything up.

I challenge you though to find a single thing that is self negating in my posts or that runs in circles, these where totaly unnessesary comments because they try to put a stain on the way i post in general and they are completely wrong also. And frankly every post that is too long for its good is in a way a rumbling or mulling these include my previous post yours and this one im making now, oh well sometimes two or three line posts are too hard to understand so....

Originally posted by Roo Stercogburn
A lot of pops at a lot of people just trying to make things work and you attempted to cover it over.

Doesn't work.

This line i don't understand its meening at all, it is obviously an attempt to discretid me and my posts as a whole but that is not what i care about, i would care about you explaining what are the things that i want to work that i also want to cover them up that its not working...i assure you there is no hidden agenta in my posts, i don't want to take over the world or anything.

I have a feeling that your last post at which i had to respond though are kinda taking Damini's thread into an unwanted turn that was not Damini's intention, i might be wrong but thats what i feel. I would not mind taking our argument somewhere else if you still think there is something to argue with me.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

I don't particularly need to quote anything. In your last post pretty much every paragraph has some generalised disparaging remark about people. Just because a comment isn't levelled at a specific individual doesn't make it any less of a slight on people.

Many of your comments are aimed at people in general and will obviously be taken to refer to the forum users here in particular, since this is the context in which we are discussing.

The reasons your arguments are circular is because you say that you have little faith in people in general but at the same time you believe there is no need for anyone to be making the effort to keep things in check, which is what this thread is actually about.

And sorry, it doesn't matter how many times you say you didn't level the nazi thing at anyone here, you won't fool anyone other than yourself perhaps.

 

[clearbrook]

From the universal declaration of hyman rights:

Article 1.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

OK, i guess we could argue about the "all... endowned with reason and conscience" bit , but we should try to accept that they mean the "spirit of brotherhood" and that as they make that article one maybe people should moderate their behaviour a bit.


ok now what do the articles have to say about moderators... hmmm....

Article 12.
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

OK there you have it: article 12, everyone is entitled to report an offensive post to the moderators, and they can then ban the poster or delete the post.

But seriously, why not just be polite to each other?

 

[Demolay]

forum - dictionary - read

 

[old.Tohtori]

*Scared*

:scared:



:help:

With the debuties running around i'll be scamoozed! Whapboozeled! Nicknaggert! You know...Bimbooled!

All the Olt Skool Mods are going and when the new law comes i'll be hung by my furry bits!

Aaaah!

 

[Kaomond]

Originally posted by Cyradix
So you just have to report threads to the real mods? Sounds easy enough

erm ... isn't this what any decent rule-abiding membr of the comunity should be doing in the first place? If people aren't doing this in the first place how is some little title going to chamge matters? all you willhave is the minority that report things still repotring them but with a nifty title ... pointless imo ... nice idea but i don't think it will work.

 

[Belsameth]

Originally posted by Kaomond
erm ... isn't this what any decent rule-abiding membr of the comunity should be doing in the first place?

should be, yes

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by Belsameth
should be, yes

I dont report threads that might irritate other people, which imo an E&E should do though.

 

[Arcos]

Re: DAoC announcement

Originally posted by Damini
We don't want to go all nazi

even going a little bit nazi is bad tho..

still a good idea imo

 

[Lochlyessa]

Sounds like a good idea generally, though I can see why some people are going up in flames over their 'lack of freedom of speech!' etc. But then if you never delibrately try to offend people, what do you have to worry about?

I'd be tempted to offer for teh alb/pryd forum, but not sure I could be bothered ;o

 

[hrodelbert]

you have too short a temper Loch

 

[old.tRoG]

Think.

 

[cHodAX]

Why aren't people being warned or banned for using 'Die IRL'? I have reported a number of incidents and so far all the mods have done is deleted or edit the offending post. Repeat offenders are getting away with this on a daily basis and it just isn't good enough. If it is now a rule then PLEASE enforce it for the sake of those members who abide by the rules and don't want to read that crap.

 

[Damini]

Warnings are generally PMed now, so I would very much expect they have been sent a warning (especially if the post has been edited).

 

[cHodAX]

Originally posted by Damini
Warnings are generally PMed now, so I would very much expect they have been sent a warning (especially if the post has been edited).

Ok, that sounds fair. I have noticed a few repeat offenders though, might be time for a reminder about future conduct.

 

[Cap'n Sissyfoo]

Who is the E&E person for Excal OT?