News Crazy UK Student Costs!

[tris-]

people have a massive bee in their bonnet about graduates.
simple fact is, without further education we have no doctors or scientists. there is no point naming the dozens of other important professions, were dead without both of them.

 

[Tom]

The option to go to university should be available to all those who wish to further better themselves, regardless of ability.

I disagree. If you're unable to pass the entrance requirements, you shouldn't be able to attend.

So what do u propose Throdgrain. Lets pretend we all accept uni is pointless and remove it, what do we then do with the hundreds of thousands of people who would have gone there and how do we find new doctors and other jobs that are highly specialised. Do we just throw them in at deep end and let them learn on the job? Hi im Talivar its my 1st day learning about medicine and im going to perform surgery on you pls dont be worried!, or maybe when you visit your local GP there can be 50 other starter doctors ll sat in room with you. Some jobs NEED a lot of knowledge before you can even think about attempting them.
You probally say uni isnt the problem its the fact you pay taxes for it that is, so lets keep uni and just not pay student loans anymore. All of a sudden none of the lower classes can go to uni, pretty quick all available jobs will be snapped up and you will be left with thousands and thousands of young people with no prospect at all, many will turn to crime as a way of making money or just as a FU to the country they feel hates them. So when you walking home and beaten to a pulp for your wallet every week or so you can say to yourself least i didnt have to pay taxes for uni courses!.

I sincerely hope that your post isn't reflective of the present standards of education, and that English is your second language.

I love people who moan about the debts they incur while at University. Welcome to the real world.

 

[MYstIC G]

No the world isnt equal but that doesnt mean we shouldnt try to make it so.

What, so we can all wear the same black shoes and the same black trousers and the same white shirts and live in the same size houses and have conversations at exactly the same level as we all know the same stuff, etc, etc. No thanks, besides you've got no right to make it so.

 

[Ch3tan]

I have no problem with my taxes going towards education, I have massive issues with some of the other crap my taxes get spent on. Unnecessary wars, supporting the vastly corrupt benefits system, the upcoming broadband tax, council enforcement officers etc etc.

Even if people go to uni to study less traditional degrees, they still have to put in the work to get a degree. I always thought the point of uni was the journey rather than the title and bit of paper at the end. Employers look to the fact that someone has completed 3 years of self motivated study, while looking after themselves rather than what degree the person has. It's character building, and I'd rather have people going to uni than struggling to find work and signing on.

Also some of you are so right wing and grumpy it is funny.

 

[Talivar]

Im British and got a B in English thanks, doesnt mean i check what i type on an internet forum tho. And Mystic G no offence but your being an idiot, i never said lets all be exactly the same. I said i would like us all to have the option of having equal chances. You say no thanks to all living in same house and wearing same clothes but without higher education for some or the lowest classes there is a chance they could end up with no house and no clothes but i gurss thats ok?

 

[Talivar]

Also some of the lower classes cant win, they
denied higher education as some of you seem to want then the chance of getting a job would drop even more so they would be forced onto the dole and then you would just whine about them being lazy. There isnt enough jobs that dont require higher education for every 16 year old in the country so a big % would HAVE to go onto the dole.

 

[DaGaffer]

I always thought the point of uni was the journey rather than the title and bit of paper at the end.

Exactly. Except in certain specialisms like Medicine where the study is as important as the experience, having a degree shows the graduate has the ability to learn and reason. Which isn't to argue all degrees have equal validity (a lot of "vocational" degrees, would be better served by proper apprenticeships), but even a "useless" degree has some benefit.

Having been through a vocational apprenticeship, and through higher education (to MSc level), I know which I'd prefer, and I know which has given me the better opportunities in life.

 

[Talivar]

Why is it so easy to accept fact alot of the upper classes will get whatever they want in life including uni places simply because of the fact some distant relative exploited the lower classes and made themselfs rich yet it seems a painfull insult to accept the lower classes need finacial help just to avoid a life on the dole.

 

[Tom]

Im British and got a B in English thanks, doesnt mean i check what i type on an internet forum tho. And Mystic G no offence but your being an idiot, i never said lets all be exactly the same. I said i would like us all to have the option of having equal chances. You say no thanks to all living in same house and wearing same clothes but without higher education for some or the lowest classes there is a chance they could end up with no house and no clothes but i gurss thats ok?

A B in English? Who was it who said that standards of education aren't dropping?

Take a look at the recently-discovered essay by Paul McCartney, aged ten years, if you want to see just how far standards have declined. You don't need a university education, you need to return to primary school.

 

[Tom]

Why is it so easy to accept fact alot of the upper classes will get whatever they want in life including uni places simply because of the fact some distant relative exploited the lower classes and made themselfs rich yet it seems a painfull insult to accept the lower classes need finacial help just to avoid a life on the dole.

Left-wing, socialist, revisionist, uneducated, and ignorant, bullshit.

 

[Talivar]

Why so i can make more of an effort when typing on an internet forum? To me These places are same as txt msgs , relaxed and not about proper english. If this style of writing offends you then that tells me it is YOU with the weakness. You probally the type of eprson that gets really annoyed when people dont do things the way you want, probally an anal retentive who didnt enjoy nappy time as a child. We can talk education standards or compare IQ if u really want but it would serve no point because win or lose you wouldnt be happy because deep down your a bitter individual who resents other people getting things for free or things maybe you wasnt offered. See i can make sweeping pointless assumptions aswell after reading some internet posts.

 

[00dave]

No the world isnt equal but that doesnt mean we shouldnt try to make it so.

I think the Russians had a similar way of thinking once, didn't work out well for them in the end.

 

[Talivar]

Agreed about the russians and i dont want a society without a structure, i just want a society where a persons place within the structure is decided on ability and the individual person and not class. If 2 students apply for a job , one with better grades but from a rough background on an estate the chances are the job will go to the other person if they are from a better class.

 

[Tom]

Why so i can make more of an effort when typing on an internet forum? To me These places are same as txt msgs , relaxed and not about proper english. If this style of writing offends you then that tells me it is YOU with the weakness. You probally the type of eprson that gets really annoyed when people dont do things the way you want, probally an anal retentive who didnt enjoy nappy time as a child. We can talk education standards or compare IQ if u really want but it would serve no point because win or lose you wouldnt be happy because deep down your a bitter individual who resents other people getting things for free or things maybe you wasnt offered. See i can make sweeping pointless assumptions aswell after reading some internet posts.

You cannot even think 'proper English', let alone type it. Your ignorance is plain to see, regardless of grammar.

I've worked my arse off for everything I have. I've always been self-employed, and self-dependent. Yes, you could say that I'm annoyed about people who seem to want something for nothing, especially when I'm paying for it.

 

[Talivar]

Your problem is that you are small minded and cant see the bigger picture. As me and others have tried to explain we NEED people to do degrees. There are many jobs that just cant be done without them and if we didnt have these students our country would suffer greatly or we would just be forced to employ people from other countrys in an even greater capacity. We need as many people as we can being trained up with degrees to keep a steady supply of people for these jobs.
And back to my other point, what do you suggest the lowest class children do at 16 if there is no jobs and they cant go onto higher education. Please enlighten me.

 

[MYstIC G]

In my experience "the bigger picture" is a disguised insult often used by those who can't justify what they're saying.

 

[Talivar]

Justify? I beleive we live in a world where people shouldnt have to go hungry or cold, we have the knowledge and technology to stop it, in other countrys its harder because other people rule there but in our own there is no excuse, Why dont you justify why its ok for some people to suffer simply because of the place they where born or the parents they there were born to.

 

[Talivar]

And im not all talk i back up my words with action, I changed my degree from Pyschology to Rehabilitation so i could have a more direct hands on approach to helping people. Atm i do my degree and the required work hours and also i spend the rest of the spare hours in the week doing voluntary work at a local charity that helps special needs people. I spent my whole summer helping special need children and children from broken homes. Just giving them the option to enjoy things most take for granted like going swimming or to the leisure centre had a massive boost and effect. Alot of these children are very clever and would benefit a lot from higher education but without our current system they would not stand a chance, especially those from broken homes where the parents dont care about them.
I dont want or think everyone should think or be like me but i do think people should think about those less fortunate.

 

[Tom]

Your problem is that you are small minded and cant see the bigger picture. As me and others have tried to explain we NEED people to do degrees. There are many jobs that just cant be done without them and if we didnt have these students our country would suffer greatly or we would just be forced to employ people from other countrys in an even greater capacity. We need as many people as we can being trained up with degrees to keep a steady supply of people for these jobs.
And back to my other point, what do you suggest the lowest class children do at 16 if there is no jobs and they cant go onto higher education. Please enlighten me.

That's rich, accusing me of being small-minded while you hold the opinion that wealthy students are only at university because their forebears exploited the poor. Who do you think supports the country - the private sector, or the public sector? Without the former, the latter cannot exist. I bet you think that Margaret Thatcher was evil incarnate, and that Michael Foot was the saviour who never was.

Its funny how people such as yourself, who want everyone to be equal, constantly harp on about class division. With the exception of the Monarchy, the only classes that exist within society are the artificial barriers created by people such as yourself. There is no legal impediment, as there once was, to a poor person becoming a politician, a doctor, a street-sweeper or anything else they would like to be.

We don't need 'as many people as we can' holding a degree - we need 'as many people as are required'. There are a great many privately-run businesses who send their staff to university or college, to take degrees. That's a much fairer and much more effective system of education then simply allowing some greasy little mong to take a 'meeja' degree because they have vain ideas about their self-worth, and their importance to society. Young people should undertake further education because they believe that they will be able to make a significant contribution to society. If the idea of a relatively small debt (yes, small, compared to a mortgage or business loan) dissuades them from taking a course which may never be able to repay that debt, then I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.

You can give some people the finest education that money has to offer, and they'll still throw it back in your face and do fuck all with their lives. You might say that such people are the responsibility of the state; I say they're the responsibility of themselves, and nobody else.

By the way, there are still plenty of jobs around. The trouble is, we have plenty of people who think they're above such jobs, and who would rather claim dole. I have no sympathy for such people, and see no reason why I should pay for their existence.

 

[00dave]

Justify? I beleive we live in a world where people shouldnt have to go hungry or cold, we have the knowledge and technology to stop it, in other countrys its harder because other people rule there but in our own there is no excuse, Why dont you justify why its ok for some people to suffer simply because of the place they where born or the parents they there were born to.

Because unfortunately that's life. And as much as you complain and campaign about it, there isn't a great deal you can do. Some people are just better off than others, it really the luck of the draw. We certainly do not have the knowledge or technology to stop any of it, I think you've been watching too many movies.

 

[Talivar]

Well lets agree to disagree then but i beleive we can help those less fortunate and i will keep doing the things i can to do my bit.

 

[Jeros]

Well lets agree to disagree then but i beleive we can help those less fortunate and i will keep doing the things i can to do my bit.

Amen

I sure as hell dont want to live in a world where, should i be out of work, my kids cant go on to higher education due to there being no money for it!

 

[MYstIC G]

Why dont you justify why its ok for some people to suffer simply because of the place they where born or the parents they there were born to.

I don't have to justify it, that's just the way the universe works. Additionally I didn't say it was ok, so be more selective or accurate with your words please.

 

[tris-]

A B in English? Who was it who said that standards of education aren't dropping?

how does picking on someones english on the internet give your argument any ground?

maybe its more fair to the graduates here if you read their dissertation or thesis (something that actually matters, the internet doesnt imo). then it might be ok to comment on their language skills.

everyone here who has a bee in their bonnet with students, why dont you tell us what your job is and how much of a help it is to society? at least then you might have a reason to take the piss out of other people.

arnt you a photographer tom? why is that any different to someone who studies landscape gardening at uni?

 

[Tom]

how does picking on someones english on the internet give your argument any ground?

maybe its more fair to the graduates here if you read their dissertation or thesis (something that actually matters, the internet doesnt imo). then it might be ok to comment on their language skills.

everyone here who has a bee in their bonnet with students, why dont you tell us what your job is and how much of a help it is to society? at least then you might have a reason to take the piss out of other people.

arnt you a photographer tom? why is that any different to someone who studies landscape gardening at uni?

I don't feel I need to justify my job, or my education. My biannual tax bill does that quite nicely.

 

[MYstIC G]

why dont you tell us what your job is and how much of a help it is to society?

Loaded question is loaded.

 

[tris-]

tom i know you have not necessarily said this, but you seem to have the same view as the others against university.

why shouldnt people be able to go to university and do a degree based on gardening for example? the job at the end is as useful to society as a photographer is. even more useful than both of these are binmen. if it wasnt for them, the streets would be full of litter and vermin. ofcourse, in the end, all jobs are useful to society in some way.

By the way, there are still plenty of jobs around. The trouble is, we have plenty of people who think they're above such jobs, and who would rather claim dole. I have no sympathy for such people, and see no reason why I should pay for their existence.

not everyone wants to be stuck on these 'jobs' that there are plenty of, nor be on the dole. im sure as fuck not going to work on a till for 40 years just because there is a lot of job vacancies for that. i went to university so i wouldnt have to do those kinds of jobs but if the government thought like you, i wouldnt of had the choice.

thankfully the government does think like that, and now ive got a degree and a career that is worthwhile.

Loaded question is loaded.

sorry i have no idea what this means. im just interested to see what jobs people have when they tell others they cant contribue to society .

 

[Jeros]

sorry i have no idea what this means. im just interested to see what jobs people have when they tell others they cant contribue to society .

A loaded question is something like

"Do you think im sexier now or when you first met me"

or

"Who do you love more, me or the kids"

A question where no matter what you say you are wrong, often fielded by creative design people

 

[tris-]

then they cannot justify saying others jobs are useless.

 

[MYstIC G]

sorry i have no idea what this means. im just interested to see what jobs people have when they tell others they cant contribue to society .

Your question sets you up as judge and jury, unless there is some sort of list that I'm unaware of which ranks jobs by "contribution to society". I'm again uncertain where anyone said that X job or Y job were useless?