Politics Coronavirus

[Gwadien]

That's the thing, I don't think it is wrong in the slightest - the only thing that is wrong is locking down when the previous Tier System was already working.

Shopping is not an especially risky activity in terms of disease spread. If you look at the PHE surveillance reports, the riskiest settings are Care Homes, Hospitals and Schools, none of which are especially affected by The Range selling some biscuits. Schools we can't do much about, but tightening up infection control in the first two would see huge benefits, especially in the number of Deaths considering how frail most people in care homes/already in hospital are - see Page 18-19 below:

https://assets.publishing.service.g.../Weekly_Flu_and_COVID-19_report_w46_FINAL.PDF

Looking at that I do questions the impact of closing down hospitality, considering how few outbreaks originate from there. And I definitely don't get why outdoor activities like golf, tennis, surfing etc have been banned.

Staff or the people they live with who work in care homes, hospitals or schools are affected by The Range though.

The only way that I can see it done is if you tell people who work in those industries that they're on their own lockdown where they can't do things (or the people they live with) and let the rest of society get on with it.

That being said, during the last lockdown there were loads of staffed that lived at their care home, so I have to applaud that.

 

[Moriath]

I don't know - I've not seen another human outside of zoom for two weeks.

It's been great

Mrs hiding from you then?

 

[Job]

I think they have it mosty right tbh , they are targetting activities that lead to social distance reductions.

There is a difference between rules that seem arbitary , but statistically result in the dropping of our attention as emotion and familiarity take over common sense,.I see it all the time...it happens to me daily, Im quite often a stranger they havent had in the house for some time and they crowd around me with their take on the pandemic, if they will do it with me, it would be far worse with friends and relatives, every time they allow a crack of normality that exponentially jumps to further drops in distancing.

Let me show you my new...
Do you know how this works...
And masks are the very problem that the WHO waened us about, cos Ive got a mask on they feel free to talk right in my face.
They are a dangerous misconception of safety

 

[Scouse]

the previous Tier System was already working.

Not seen that anywhere.

 

[Bodhi]

Staff or the people they live with who work in care homes, hospitals or schools are affected by The Range though.

The only way that I can see it done is if you tell people who work in those industries that they're on their own lockdown where they can't do things (or the people they live with) and let the rest of society get on with it.

That being said, during the last lockdown there were loads of staffed that lived at their care home, so I have to applaud that.

I have a couple of close family members in the NHS, one who has voluntarily locked down since March, only going to work and Tesco, and another who is more concerned about getting infected at work and spreading it in the community that way.

I also know for a fact they still aren't being tested with any sort of regularity - I should think health care would be a better use of these new rapid tests than randomly testing people in Liverpool (and not finding much).

 

[Bodhi]

Not seen that anywhere.

Covered here by Tim Spector, the chap who runs the ZOE app. Their numbers seem to track the ONS prevalence survey fairly well:

Prof Tim Spector: hopes of a vaccine will lead to more lockdowns

Podcast version: One of the most interesting sources of data for the progress of the Covid-19 pandemic has been the ZOE app — downloaded by over 4.3 million people, who input symptoms and test results every day. Its founder is Professor Tim Spector, an epidemiologist from KCL, and the app is now...

unherd.com

 

[Scouse]

Covered here by Tim Spector, the chap who runs the ZOE app. Their numbers seem to track the ONS prevalence survey fairly well:

I watched much of that interview. I actually quite like the guy (although the interviewer looks like smug guy from b3ta).

From his own mouth: "ours is not the only source of data". There are multiple datasets and, from what he said alone, the government chose to pick the worst case scenario to act on - which when you're trying to risk manage may or may not be an unreasonable position.

The point of this is we're back around here again @Bodhi - this is a single source of data. Just one guy. We've got a raft of people providing data and a committee of highly qualified people taking all of this data and deciding, on looking at all sources of data, which to act upon.


You're cherry-picking single sources to justify your position and ignoring the sources of data that shit on it. SAGE don't have the luxury of taking single dissenting opinions and dismissing other, less convenient, evidence.

Maybe they discounted him because nearly 10% of his app. subscribers were citizen scientists who actually funded the application - so they're clearly much more likely to behave in a responsible fashion and could therefore skew his results?

Who knows. But what I do know - right now, today, from the governments own figures, the number of people being admitted to hospital with covid is still rising on a daily basis.

I'm not going to argue about lags etc. If you want to split hairs like that with the loss of human life just so you can go to the pub more freely then I'm not interested in any discussion. Right now the government is choosing to lock down, a Tory government is choosing to lock down - and if there's one thing they're known for is keeping an eye on the money. You can be your ass that if a wholistic decision could be taken that would protect profits and jobs at a loss of life that would not destabilise the country the Tories would grip it with both hands.

 

[Raven]

Christmas decorations have gone up around the village!

I am usually not that bothered about Xmas but I am going to have a massive blow out this year.

 

[Scouse]

I am usually not that bothered about Xmas but I am going to have a massive blow out this year.

Oh rly?

Spoiler

??

 

[Job]

WHO are still recommending against lockdowns.

Who is advising them and why are we ignoring it.

National lockdowns should be backup plan on Covid, says WHO envoy

David Nabarro says ‘circuit breakers’ should be reserve rather than primary measure

www.google.com

 

[Scouse]

WHO are still recommending against lockdowns.

No they're not.

National lockdowns should be used only as a “reserve” measure to control coronavirus, according to the World Health Organization’s special envoy on Covid

We tried other stuff. Then we used a (weak) lockdown when other stuff hadn't worked.

Words @Job. You use them to understand what other people mean.

Building a robust test, trace and isolate system must remain the priority for all governments, said Nabarro, “with lockdown still the reserve that you use to take the heat out of the system when things are really bad”.

Instead of whining about lockdowns being used - why aren't you pummeling the tory government for STILL not having a robust track and trace system (never mind a "world beating" one) up and running in NOVEMBER?

 

[Gumbo]

If the previous restrictions were working so well, why are we admitting someone to hospital in the UK every 52 seconds?

 

[Scouse]

If the previous restrictions were working so well, why are we admitting someone to hospital in the UK every 52 seconds?

51.79 seconds m8

 

[Gwadien]

If we could be a sensible society and just have a new normal where everyone behaves in a certain way due to covid then we'd be dandy.

Problem is that there's lots of people out there who feel that they won't personally be affected by covid that much, so why would they care?

Doesn't help when you have a Government that encourages you to go out for a meal mid pandemic though.

 

[Gumbo]

They banned the other stuff like Golf etc because they thought we'd be going back to deserted streets like LD1, because we would all be good little people. Or they simply don't care, because this way the economy keeps moving. The usual retort is that lockdowns don't solve the problem, and of course the first didn't fix the virus,, but the downslope in cases and deaths was pretty rapid, the pressure eased and we got down to single figure deaths per day.

This time everyone is ignoring it, Everything is going the wrong way and will continue to do so, I have little doubt, so we'll be looking at a longer more severe lockdown soon.

If I were in charge About 8 weeks ago I'd have said, - In 10 days we're shutting the country down for 14 days. Supermarkets and Pharmacies will be open, but we'll have them monitored to make sure that they have put in one way, one in one out like in the first week of April. Other than that EVERYONE except for ACTUAL REAL essential workers is staying inside. Perhaps I'd have even done a French style, you need a form to say where you're going. That would have given people time to prepare and would have knocked it back about 6-8 weeks.

I'd have also said, that we're probably doing that again in a few weeks, and maybe one or two more times before vaccine.

So what, 6 weeks? of HARD lockdown spread over 5 - 6 months, but effective. Instead this is going to turn into 3 months of ineffective lockdown and a completely overwhelmed NHS causing countless unnecessary deaths, and not just Covid ones.

 

[Gumbo]

51.79 seconds m8

Yup here's my working, but I thought some of the hard of thinking in here might struggle with decimal places.

 

[Gumbo]

Worse is when you consider that someone is testing positive every 2.58 seconds. How many more are not even getting tests?

To assert that all that transfer is happening in households and the rest of society doesn't matter is mad.

 

[Raven]

Wife has gone to bed early, not feeling well. No cough or anything and will see how she is in the morning and get her tested, again.

 

[Job]

Travelers Are Buying Fake COVID-19 Test Results on the Black Market

 

[Raven]

I clicked that expecting it to be about pikeys.

 

[Gwadien]

Coronavirus: Safety officials had 'political' pressure to approve PPE

Emails reveal how officials described pressure to approve protective suits for the NHS.

www.bbc.co.uk

Lols

 

[Scouse]

5% work from home tax eh?

 

[Moriath]

Cummings is goings it seems. Not before time.

@Scouse tax has followed working patterns and economic activity. Salt tax window tax even feckin beard tax. Not surprised that a loss in fuel duty is made up some how. Seen ppl asking for a rise in capital gains also. Which percentage wise hits poorer ppl over the mega rich unless they raise the threshhold

 

[Moriath]

Cummings is goings it seems. Not before time.

@Scouse tax has followed working patterns and economic activity. Salt tax window tax even feckin beard tax. Not surprised that a loss in fuel duty is made up some how. Seen ppl asking for a rise in capital gains also. Which percentage wise hits poorer ppl over the mega rich unless they

also Dbank are a bunch of chancers who i deal with weekly in my job.

 

[SilverHood]

Cummings is goings it seems. Not before time.

@Scouse tax has followed working patterns and economic activity. Salt tax window tax even feckin beard tax. Not surprised that a loss in fuel duty is made up some how. Seen ppl asking for a rise in capital gains also. Which percentage wise hits poorer ppl over the mega rich unless they

also Dbank are a bunch of chancers who i deal with weekly in my job.

Cummings .... he came and went

I used to work for DB, I am amazed they are still in business. One day I'll write a book about the shenanigans that went on in the infrastructure area.

 

[Ormorof]

5% work from home tax eh?

I get a nice fat tax deduction for working from home

 

[Wij]

Every criminal's favourite bank. They should have been closed years ago.

 

[DaGaffer]

WHO are still recommending against lockdowns.

Who is advising them and why are we ignoring it.

National lockdowns should be backup plan on Covid, says WHO envoy

David Nabarro says ‘circuit breakers’ should be reserve rather than primary measure

www.google.com

Once again, not what the article says. "Should be a backup plan". Its right there in the URL.

NB. You couldn't get a better test case than Ireland/NI right now. Ireland = lockdown, daily infections have dropped by 60-70% in the last four weeks. NI, no lockdown, giant shitshow with twice the daily infections of Ireland with half the population.

 

[Raven]

You just need to go somewhere to see that this second lockdown hasn't actually changed all that much and is setting us up for full lockdown over Christmas, I am sure Bojo will be out at his podium telling us all about the sacrifices that we need to make at this troubled time though.

Kids are dropping like flies at schools atm, the wife is off for another test today which means I have to stay at home until she gets the result but cannot get a test myself.

Silver lining though, it was pretty easy for her to get a test booked in today, unlike last time when they wanted her to drive 100 miles for a test in a town that she has never been to before in her life...so progress, I guess.

 

[DaGaffer]

I get a nice fat tax deduction for working from home

Me too. We can claim back a load of stuff for home working.