Politics Coronavirus

[Scouse]

Jeebuz.

I'll *always* be twatting the tories for no PPE. - it's their fault.

But I'm not talking about that for gods sake.

I'm reiterating the scientists saying SHIT PPE > NO PPE.

It's pretty fucking simple. And to answer knuckle-dragger @Bodhi above:

YES. In the absence of any PPE a fucking scarf is better than nothing because:

SHIT PPE > NO PPE.

(says scientists)

So in the absence of any proper PPE for nurses we should buy a load of shit stuff because it might save a few of their lives - not as many as proper PPE would, but more than none would.

Less effective action > No action.


That statement is nothing to do with anything but what scientists have said we should do. It's about saving lives, nothing else.

It boggles my mind that people can't think straight.

Man 1: Fire! Fire!
Man 2: Get a fire extinguisher!
Man 1: I don't have one.
Man 2: Smother it with a wet towel then.
Man 1: Wet towel? That's not as effective as a fire extinguisher. And it's dangerous to use. I'd rather do nothing and leave the fire burning.

 

[Scouse]

Facepalm me all you like @Scouse - you have lost perspective.

Read the above, and adjust yours.

 

[Yoni]

Mine is fine dear - I understand your point however if any of the pro Tories had argued that the medical professionals should use bin bags there would be a post of equal size complaining again.

ie the UK government is currently caught between the devil and the deep blue sea because of people who voice their opinions in the way you do at the moment.

 

[Scouse]

Mine is fine dear - I understand your point however if any of the pro Tories had argued that the medical professionals should use bin bags there would be a post of equal size complaining again.

ie the UK government is currently caught between the devil and the deep blue sea because of people who voice their opinions in the way you do at the moment.

I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THE EFFING GOVERNMENT FFS!

What part of that is hard to understand??

We need to buy shit ppe because it's better than nothing.

To save lives.

Period. End of. Nothing else to talk about.

*you're the one obsessing about what that means for how shit the government would look. - but that doesn't matter - save the fucking lives ffs! Use the wet towel!

 

[Deebs]

Sorry but no you have constantly chosen the rhetoric that is most anti government through most of this thread.

If the government were to tell medical professionals to use sub standard PPE as it is better than no PPE the you would be here ranting again so for me at the moment I have stopped reading your posts as they seemed to have lost objectivity. Remember please I am not a Tory.

The way I see it:

Fully working PPE = you know the risk and sense of security
No PPE = you know the risk and sense of security
Faulty PPE = you do not know the risk and false sense of security

It really is that fucking simple.

 

[Deebs]

I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THE EFFING GOVERNMENT FFS!

What part of that is hard to understand??

We need to buy shit ppe because it's better than nothing.

To save lives.

Period. End of. Nothing else to talk about.

*you're the one obsessing about what that means for how shit the government would look. - but that doesn't matter - save the fucking lives ffs! Use the wet towel!

I've now managed to build a submarine (never built one before), it has a few holes and leaks but it is better than not having a submarine.

 

[Scouse]

The way I see it:

Fully working PPE = you know the risk and sense of security
No PPE = you know the risk and sense of security
Faulty PPE = you do not know the risk and false sense of security

It really is that fucking simple.

Don't really give a fuck aboit how you see it.

I'd rather take the opinion of the scientists - which is way more qualified than yours.

 

[Bodhi]

Jeebuz.

I'll *always* be twatting the tories for no PPE. - it's their fault.

But I'm not talking about that for gods sake.

I'm reiterating the scientists saying SHIT PPE > NO PPE.

It's pretty fucking simple. And to answer knuckle-dragger @Bodhi above:

YES. In the absence of any PPE a fucking scarf is better than nothing because:

SHIT PPE > NO PPE.

(says scientists)

So in the absence of any proper PPE for nurses we should buy a load of shit stuff because it might save a few of their lives - not as many as proper PPE would, but more than none would.

Less effective action > No action.


That statement is nothing to do with anything but what scientists have said we should do. It's about saving lives, nothing else.

It boggles my mind that people can't think straight.

Man 1: Fire! Fire!
Man 2: Get a fire extinguisher!
Man 1: I don't have one.
Man 2: Smother it with a wet towel then.
Man 1: Wet towel? That's not as effective as a fire extinguisher. And it's dangerous to use. I'd rather do nothing and leave the fire burning.

Care to point out this study that says that bad PPE is better than no PPE?

 

[Deebs]

Don't really give a fuck aboit how you see it.

I'd rather take the opinion of the scientists - which is way more qualified than yours.

Ah ok, so you take the opinion of the scientists. Good.

Now why is the Government being shite for doing exactly what you just said you do?

 

[Scouse]

I've now managed to build a submarine (never built one before), it has a few holes and leaks but it is better than not having a submarine.

Not applicable as a metaphor.

There's no positive outcome from that scenario @Deebs - but there is from the wet towel/shit ppe.

Shit ppe doesn't equal guaranteed drowning - it means maybe the fire gets put out.

 

[Deebs]

Not applicable as a metaphor.

There's no positive outcome from that scenario @Deebs - but there is from the wet towel/shit ppe.

Shit ppe doesn't equal guaranteed drowning - it means maybe the fire gets put out.

No but it means you know the risk and without PPE you don't go near the frontline.

Same as if the fire is a fucking building you don't use a wet towel to put it out but the correct equipment.

 

[Scouse]

Ah ok, so you take the opinion of the scientists. Good.

Now why is the Government being shite for doing exactly what you just said you do?

Because they didn't.

Scientists have been screaming for years about exactly this, especially after SARS and ebola.

And our government did nothing but cancel the working group that, if the government had followed their advice, would have insisted on proper PPE stockpiles, enough respirators, testing kits and an action plan that would have produced an outcome like South Korea's, not Italy's.

This government did that. THAT is why they're shit.

 

[Deebs]

Because they didn't.

Scientists have been screaming for years about exactly this, especially after SARS and ebola.

And our government did nothing but cancel the working group that, if the government had followed their advice, would have insisted on proper PPE stockpiles, enough respirators, testing kits and an action plan that would have produced an outcome like South Korea's, not Italy's.

This government did that. THAT is why they're shit.

Fucking hell, seriously, I thought I gave @Job a holiday.

The Government and NHS Procurement stockpiled lots of stuff due to Brexit, much to everyones anger (yours included). Maybe not enough respirators and ventilators.

But seriously, testing kits? Fucking testing kits for an unknown virus. You fucking plank.

 

[Scouse]

No but it means you know the risk and without PPE you don't go near the frontline.

Same as if the fire is a fucking building you don't use a wet towel to put it out but the correct equipment.

Jeesus deebs - we're talking about frontline staff - who don't have the correct equipment.

So, to use your metaphor - nurses and doctors are running into that burning building with no hoses, facemasks and breathers - because that's what they do.

Give them a wet towel to wrap around their face ffs - it's better than nothing.

 

[Yoni]

I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THE EFFING GOVERNMENT FFS!

What part of that is hard to understand??

We need to buy shit ppe because it's better than nothing.

To save lives.

Period. End of. Nothing else to talk about.

*you're the one obsessing about what that means for how shit the government would look. - but that doesn't matter - save the fucking lives ffs! Use the wet towel!

No if a building was on fire I would not use a wet towel - you are a special kind of crazy at the moment.

 

[Deebs]

Jeesus deebs - we're talking about frontline staff - who don't have the correct equipment.

So, to use your metaphor - nurses and doctors are running into that burning building with no hoses, facemasks and breathers - because that's what they do.

Give them a wet towel to wrap around their face ffs - it's better than nothing.

Link the article.

 

[Deebs]

No if a building was on fire I would not use a wet towel - you are a special kind of crazy at the moment.

He is blaming the Govt for not having enough testing kits for an unknown virus in stockpiles.

 

[Wij]

For the 17th time, that is advice for the General Public, not frontline healthcare workers. Otherwise why would the Dutch send back 600,000 masks that were no use to their healthcare workers?

Unless you're suggesting ICU nurses just use fucking scarves instead?

Jesus.

I think the point is being missed somewhat. I'm not advocating the use of shit PPE.

However, just because a blog has found *some* claimed providers who were trying to hawk shit does not mean there were NO cases where perfectly usable PPE has been sent abroad. I'm doubting our EU cousins were desperate for any old shit either.

 

[Yoni]

I can’t find a scientific view on bad PPE- I know UK health authorities suggested more than single use before last weekend - but in the press conferences I thought CMO said poor PPE is worse than no PPE but I could have miss heard it.

Here they have rejected shite PPE as posted pages ago.

 

[Scouse]

But seriously, testing kits? Fucking testing kits for an unknown virus. You fucking plank.

You mean the fucking imaginary testing kits (and full PPE) That South Korea managed to magic out of their arses on much shorter notice than we had - allowing them to cut death without a lockdown - because they tested and contact traced (following the WHO advice to "test test test")?

Before we go any further, you lot need to explain to me why South Korea, who followed WHO advice and prepared for a pandemic - managed to get through it with vastly fewer deaths than we did and no lockdown.

This has been posted lots of times before but steadfastly ignored: Why didn't we do the same? We had the same information and warning as them.

Yet here people are dying in the thousands and we're locked in our homes.

Answer that.

 

[dysfunction]

Link the article.

They are being told to re-use or wear and apron!! How can an apron be regarded as being high quality medical grade PPE or even reusing PPE can't be much better than non medical grade PPE.
PPE including gowns and masks running out, admits UK government

PHE advised frontline staff to wear a flimsy plastic apron with coveralls when gowns ran out

So already being told to use substandard PPE....

 

[Yoni]

You mean the fucking imaginary testing kits (and full PPE) That South Korea managed to magic out of their arses on much shorter notice than we had - allowing them to cut death without a lockdown - because they tested and contact traced?

Before we go any further, you lot need to explain to me why South Korea, who followed WHO advice and prepared for a pandemic - managed to get through it with vastly fewer deaths than we did and no lockdown.

This has been posted lits of times before but steadfastly ignored: Why didn't we do the same? We had the same information and warning as them.

Yet here people are dying in the thousands and we're locked in our homes.

Answer that.

They learnt from their experience with MERS.

Europe has never had to deal with anything like this before - additionally there is more than one strain of the virus S Korea have the milder version where as the mutated version that affected Italy is thought to be much more fatal.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Wish I'd bought more popcorn.

 

[Bodhi]

You mean the fucking imaginary testing kits (and full PPE) That South Korea managed to magic out of their arses on much shorter notice than we had - allowing them to cut death without a lockdown - because they tested and contact traced (following the WHO advice to "test test test")?

Before we go any further, you lot need to explain to me why South Korea, who followed WHO advice and prepared for a pandemic - managed to get through it with vastly fewer deaths than we did and no lockdown.

This has been posted lots of times before but steadfastly ignored: Why didn't we do the same? We had the same information and warning as them.

Yet here people are dying in the thousands and we're locked in our homes.

Answer that.

Ah, you mean the contact tracing app South Koreans have to install that you said you wanted nothing to do with?

Inconsistent argument is inconsistent.

 

[Deebs]

You mean the fucking imaginary testing kits (and full PPE) That South Korea managed to magic out of their arses on much shorter notice than we had - allowing them to cut death without a lockdown - because they tested and contact traced (following the WHO advice to "test test test")?

Before we go any further, you lot need to explain to me why South Korea, who followed WHO advice and prepared for a pandemic - managed to get through it with vastly fewer deaths than we did and no lockdown.

This has been posted lots of times before but steadfastly ignored: Why didn't we do the same? We had the same information and warning as them.

Yet here people are dying in the thousands and we're locked in our homes.

Answer that.

1. They had to create the test. I was not stockpiled years ago. So again you cannot stockpile a test which checks for an unknown virus.
2. They were prepared after the other 2 virus outbreaks. No doubting that.
3. They act in a socially different way.
4. The rest of the world didn't think (my opinion) is that it could happen to them.

 

[Deebs]

They are being told to re-use or wear and apron!! How can an apron be regarded as being high quality medical grade PPE or even reusing PPE can't be much better than non medical grade PPE.
PPE including gowns and masks running out, admits UK government



So already being told to use substandard PPE....

Is this the article that states by scientists that shit ppe is better than no ppe on the frontline?

 

[caLLous]

He is blaming the Govt for not having enough testing kits for an unknown virus in stockpiles.

You don't need to know what the testing kit is testing for, you take a sample and run it through a machine and look for whatever you're looking for in the results. It's totally reasonable to have stockpiles of testing kits.

 

[Yoni]

You don't need to know what the testing kit is testing for, you take a sample and run it through a machine and look for whatever you're looking for in the results. It's totally reasonable to have stockpiles of testing kits.

Are you an expert medical researcher?

 

[Deebs]

You don't need to know what the testing kit is testing for, you take a sample and run it through a machine and look for whatever you're looking for in the results. It's totally reasonable to have stockpiles of testing kits.

Then explain how countries around the world are returning recently made testing kits as they are incorrectly detecting coronavirus?

How do you quality control stockpiled testing kits? test a few a day and hope the whole lot is not shite?

 

[Deebs]

They are being told to re-use or wear and apron!! How can an apron be regarded as being high quality medical grade PPE or even reusing PPE can't be much better than non medical grade PPE.
PPE including gowns and masks running out, admits UK government



So already being told to use substandard PPE....

Yes and I keep seeing interviews with hospital managers that say they are reusing PPE but only after washing it and testing that it is still viable and safe to use.