Politics Coronavirus

Raven

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Going to be seeing the inlaws on Tuesday, weather permitting. Just going to be sat in their garden, but the wife can't wait. Her parents have been vaccinated, I've had my first dose, and she is taking regular covid tests due to being a teacher so as safe as we can be. She's like a child at Christmas.
 

Raven

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Looks like we will shortly be using the moderna vaccine too, further boosting vaccination rates.
 

Hawkwind

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fairly balanced but strange how the article makes no mention of the British Govt early investment in the oxford vaccine which effectively gave them the first orders. They were also the first to sign contracts for AZ. the Eurocrat response is always that they signed the same terms but that actually is not true. When the contract was published they targeted the supply from UK factories as a major issue. prior to that is was that they had concrete dates set in the contract (also a lie, best-effort type language and a schedule is not that). They gave so much bad press (for political points) to the AZ vaccine that people did not want it. At the time of passing the bill that can block exports they had >2 million unused AZ vaccines.

It is a mess but the spin they put out is just one-sided rhetoric with slithers of actual truth inserted. Going after the UK in export bans will hurt the EU more if the UK responded. The Lipids needed in the EU factories are made in the UK. No one wants a trade war and working together is a much better way forward. The Eurocrats seem more intent on the justification of a slow response than actually sitting down and talking.

/rant off
 

Ormorof

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Im a little stunned at all the "capitalism works" speeches, not just from BoJo but also across EU... Havent all the vaccines been developed and been underwritten by public money and in public institutions? Practically no risk taken by pharmaceutical companies at all they are just manufacturing it
 

Scouse

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Im a little stunned at all the "capitalism works" speeches, not just from BoJo but also across EU... Havent all the vaccines been developed and been underwritten by public money and in public institutions? Practically no risk taken by pharmaceutical companies at all they are just manufacturing it
Exactly.

The whole thing is a giant magnifying glass on the fact that pharma works better when competition is removed and we work towards a common goal.
 

Embattle

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Im a little stunned at all the "capitalism works" speeches, not just from BoJo but also across EU... Havent all the vaccines been developed and been underwritten by public money and in public institutions? Practically no risk taken by pharmaceutical companies at all they are just manufacturing it

I find it utterly silly personally since you can see bits of both systems in the vaccines.
 

Ormorof

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I agree that papers or an app or whatever for going to pub is absurd, the trial in Denmark is a mess (if you lose connection due to say, being inside a pub in an old building) then whoops it doesn't work.

I don't have an issue with it being used for travelling between countries as that already exists, and seems to work ok (the aim there being to avoid people getting sick while there and overwhelming local systems), but how would a pub even check it? Do bouncers need to know how to spot a real one vs fake one? For that matter will all pubs need someone at the door?
 

Raven

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Inlaws tomorrow, taking a cream tea, wife can't wait.

BBQ with my mum on Saturday, weather permitting (see her all the time, share a garden)
 

Raven

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However many weeks in. Anyone would think the EU care about politics rather than saving lives.
 

Gwadien

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However many weeks in. Anyone would think the EU care about politics rather than saving lives.

So what are the EU doing with the vaccines they're blocking? putting them in the bin just to score political points?

It's actually funny that Boris said in a conference the reason why we're leading is because of 'greed and capitalism' and we're all finding it fine because we're the ones benefitting from it.
 

Raven

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Who knows what the EU and EU countries are doing but it ain't getting vaccines into arms and it isn't a supply issue. Lots of serious face by committee though, very little action.

Also, you need context for that quote, which was redacted immediately. Boris is a cock, no doubt, but try harder, he comes out with all sorts of shit, the rags focusing on that deflects from all sorts of shittery.
 

Gwadien

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Who knows what the EU and EU countries are doing but it ain't getting vaccines into arms and it isn't a supply issue. Lots of serious face by committee though, very little action.

Also, you need context for that quote, which was redacted immediately. Boris is a cock, no doubt, but try harder, he comes out with all sorts of shit, the rags focusing on that deflects from all sorts of shittery.

He redacted it? So what? It's a completely correct statement; the only reason why we have vaccines is because we put the orders in the earliest.

But again, this is where I'm confused, because we're serving our self interest and the EU are serving their own interests, it's a bit like when Italy blocked the vaccines destined for Australia and our Brexit loving press jumped on it, but hang on a second, didn't Italy do pretty badly and their healthcare system fell apart whilst Australia have been having a pretty decent time? If we're after saving lives then surely the priority should be Italy regardless of the incompetence of their Government?

Considering pretty much every political leader around the world has called the pandemic a 'war' I still can't be convinced that everyone is so shocked that the EU would use their own resources on their own people, you behave like it's purely a EU bureaucratic issue and that people in the EU aren't benefitting from it, imagine if the tides were turned and we were producing vaccines for other countries whilst doing pretty poor ourselves, there would be uproar.

In my eyes this is the whole Remain argument in a nutshell, and I don't buy the whole 'yeah but they need us because we produce some of the stuff they need' as if they wouldn't go elsewhere and buy it at a premium to make a point.
 

Raven

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This has nothing to do with Brexit. Do we really need to keep going round in circles regarding the EU and EU countries trying to shave a few quid off the cost, or not...and obviously...Still not getting their acts together regarding distribution? They have the vaccines, they have the people.

Also, the EU pretending they are blocking exports to try and show them selves as anything other than weak, slow and ineffective is hilarious. The moment they do is the moment we block ingredients. I am sure people will whine about that too though.

Anyway, cream tea just devoured, lovely sunshine in the inlaws garden and further good news in the UK over covid.

Sun is out, virus in retreat. Light at the end of the tunnel in full view! Time to be positive...but not complacent!
 

Raven

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And yeah, sure they can go elsewhere. So not only would they have delayed the rollout, caused more deaths (most EU countries will be worse per capita than us when this is done) but they will end up paying more anyway...and all completely avoidable.

A failure at ever managerial level, due to one single issue, the EU and it's 27 board members with 27 different needs.
 

Gwadien

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And yeah, sure they can go elsewhere. So not only would they have delayed the rollout, caused more deaths (most EU countries will be worse per capita than us when this is done) but they will end up paying more anyway...and all completely avoidable.

A failure at ever managerial level, due to one single issue, the EU and it's 27 board members with 27 different needs.

Completely avoidable by them not blocking vaccines meaning they still have less vaccines and still have 'more deaths'?

Isn't it a two way street? If that's the case then surely we should agree to let the EU keep a few million doses if our priority is preventing deaths internationally, not just nationally?
 

Raven

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Completely avoidable because there is absolutely no reason for them to not be at the same stage as us in vaccination.

Well, there are reasons, all generated by EU leadership.

And once again, vaccine supply is not affecting vaccine distribution in the EU, idiocy and scaremongering is. They have tons of them, perhaps they should have a crack at using them
 

Raven

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Anyway, there are now more people that have had at least first jab than those without.

Gogo NHS
 

Gwadien

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Completely avoidable because there is absolutely no reason for them to not be at the same stage as us in vaccination.

Well, there are reasons, all generated by EU leadership.

And once again, vaccine supply is not affecting vaccine distribution in the EU, idiocy and scaremongering is. They have tons of them, perhaps they should have a crack at using them

How though? It's competition, we got in front of them, they can't be at the same stage as us, they could only be in front of us...
 

Raven

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No, it wasn't competition at all. If anything it was cooperative in building and designing manufacturing and distribution systems, just that we started earlier. This competition for supply is an entirely EU created lie.

There still aren't enough plants making the stuff and they are still too slow giving it out.

It's been the same now for weeks and distribution still isn't going very fast, why? What are they doing?
 

Gwadien

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No, it wasn't competition at all. If anything it was cooperative in building and designing manufacturing and distribution systems, just that we started earlier. This competition for supply is an entirely EU created lie.

There still aren't enough plants making the stuff and they are still too slow giving it out.

It's been the same now for weeks and distribution still isn't going very fast, why? What are they doing?

NHS?

& didn't we already have a pretty big pharma industry in the UK compared to other countries?

Also, NHS again; I'd imagine the conversations are much easier with companies that exclusively work with the NHS rather than with the pharma bros who are used to the competition.
 

Moriath

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NHS?

& didn't we already have a pretty big pharma industry in the UK compared to other countries?

Also, NHS again; I'd imagine the conversations are much easier with companies that exclusively work with the NHS rather than with the pharma bros who are used to the competition.
The only pharma developed by the uk as been released at cost price. All the others are priced to make a profit.

a not insignificant amount of vaccine came from other sources than the az plants in the uk.

its not like we have made all the stuff in our own island and are not sending it out.

its made all over the world. And we ship out components of the pfizer vaccine to the EU in order them to make it.

most of the eu supply problems have been because they stopped the az roll out and before and after the stop they pushed it at only certain demographics.

unless you were going to make a pool of all the vaccines and hand them out on a ratio basis to all countries it had to go where the contract and supply was agreed.

and of course it takes longer for the later agreed contracts to be satisfied.
 
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Gwadien

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Really?

That might why we're talking about other countries not allowing their stocks to exported.

Jesus.
 

Raven

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NHS?

& didn't we already have a pretty big pharma industry in the UK compared to other countries?

Also, NHS again; I'd imagine the conversations are much easier with companies that exclusively work with the NHS rather than with the pharma bros who are used to the competition.

Yes, the NHS are distributing it at an unprecedented rate. Extremely well-organised and all largely despite the Tories, not because of them.
 
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