Politics Coronavirus

[Raven]

Edit, to parrot so many pre-EU folk, they can't have their cake and eat it.

 

[Yoni]

Your apparent gloating about the EC struggles started before that post.... Yes for a leaver who is looking to grasp at the positives of still being in the UK it is understandable that you are happy that there is one thing going well...

No rose tinted specs here by the way I have lived in both areas... UK and EU and regardless of the vaccine issues life here even in a pandemic is so much better..

It was made quite clear to people here that they would not see a vaccination before the Summer and that is absolutey fine with me - my nervousness about the rate it was tested will be satisfied by that time as any side affects that may not have come to light, may have come to light by then as such a vast number will have recieved it.

 

[Deebs]

Your apparent gloating about the EC struggles started before that post.... Yes for a leaver who is looking to grasp at the positives of still being in the UK it is understandable that you are happy that there is one thing going well... No rose tinted specs here by the way I have lived in both areas... UK and EU and regardless of the vaccine issues life here even in a pandemic is so much better.. It was made quite clear to people here that they would not see a vaccination before the Summer and that is absolutey fine with me - my nervousness about the rate it was tested will be satisfied by that time as any side affects that may not have come to light, may have come to light by then as such a vast number will have recieved it by then.

And yet @Raven a remainer is criticising the exact same EC, is he gloating? Can you not see, from either side of the fence, that the EC fucked up. Even Peston, a PRO-EU supporter criticised them.

Not once have I mentioned anything about being in the EU or out and how it has benefited the UK's access to vaccines. You are merely seeing stuff that is not there just due to how someone voted in the referendum of 2016.

 

[Bodhi]

Don't see the issue - the AZ vaccine is basically Genetically Modified Monkey Snot, what could possibly be bad about that?

 

[Raven]

Anyway...

Covid-19: 'Poor decisions' to blame for UK death toll, scientists say

A "legacy of poor decisions" in 2020 and before the pandemic led to 100,000 deaths, scientists say.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Yoni]

Don't see the issue - the AZ vaccine is basically Genetically Modified Monkey Snot, what could possibly be bad about that?

Pandemrix very close to home

 

[Yoni]

And yet @Raven a remainer is criticising the exact same EC, is he gloating? Can you not see, from either side of the fence, that the EC fucked up. Even Peston, a PRO-EU supporter criticised them.

Not once have I mentioned anything about being in the EU or out and how it has benefited the UK's access to vaccines. You are merely seeing stuff that is not there just due to how someone voted in the referendum of 2016.

I stated that your posts appeared to be gloating even if that was not the intention...

 

[Scouse]

and because of the populations incompetence. The Tories fucked up along the way but so did the people for not following advice. The blame lies at multiple people's feet.

Sorry @Deebs but the UK government, the police and the actual figures show that the vast majority of the UK public have been highly compliant with the requests - just like human animals from other countries.

The differentiating factor between the UK's abysmal performance and other countries isn't the people - it's the leadership.

Decisions taken too late and half assed measures - in direct conflict with scientific advice. Importantly - a failure on our leadership to learn the lessons from those mistakes so they were repeated.

Programme failures, governance failures, poor quality and mixed messaging. The reasons are myriad - it's not one failure that has led to such a devastating death toll comparative to the whole world but multiple and consistent failures.


Multiple and consistent failings and a failure to learn from mistakes equals clear incompetence.

The result of that incompetence has been death. More death than other countries, battling the same disease but doing much better.

I can think of no clearer indication of a total failure of leadership than the situation we find ourselves in with bodies continuing to rack up at world-fastest rates.

 

[Deebs]

I stated that your posts appeared to be gloating even if that was not the intention...

I am sorry if I came across as that, I can assure you from the bottom of my heart I am not. Just like the UK Government has fucked up, the EU has fucked up and the people suffer for it.

Moving on, this is an interesting graphic which shows where the vaccine is being made around the world.

 

[Scouse]

Pandemrix very close to home

You really need to let that go. It's an emotional rather than rational response yons.

 

[DaGaffer]

I would have throught by now it would be clearly understood that gloating may possibly come back and bite the gloatees in the ass this is not a threat it is just unfortunately how humans work. Personally I believe the "world" should be focussed on ensuring the most vulnerable are vaccinated as soon as possible.... The post made by Wij is a much more unbiased presentation of the situation - it really makes one think a little bit more.

The most likely to spread it should be vaccinated first. If everyone is locked down anyway, we're doing this ass-backwards. There was a little village in Cork that was, for a few days, the highest infected place on the planet, and it was almost certainly caused by one or two super-spreaders who'd come home for Christmas from the UK. Anyone travelling shouldn't be allowed on a plane unless they've been vaccinated two weeks before; including the crew. Anyone involved in transport of any sort should be vaccinated as a priority. There are a bunch of use cases the medics absolutely know are likely super-spreaders but we have to follow the "kind" vaccination route (old to young) rather than the effective route. I know it hits old people harder, but they've had a year to get their social distancing and lockdown shit together at this point, and yet when I (quite rarely now) go out, I still see oldies being just as irresponsible as teenagers.

 

[DaGaffer]

I do not believe a world that comes out of his mouth... he is CEO of a parma co... He is just spinning a story to keep his shareholders happy.. As for gloating I was not talking about him....

To be fair, the pace of the EU vaccine rollout is self-inflicted. It's been absolutely appalling. It seems to have been far more focused on cost than efficacy, and that's come back to bite us collectively on the arse. I'm extremely pissed off that the one time living in a small country should be an advantage, we can't leverage it. We could have been nearly done by now, but thanks to the EU we've barely started.

 

[Yoni]

The most likely to spread it should be vaccinated first. If everyone is locked down anyway, we're doing this ass-backwards. There was a little village in Cork that was, for a few days, the highest infected place on the planet, and it was almost certainly caused by one or two super-spreaders who'd come home for Christmas from the UK. Anyone travelling shouldn't be allowed on a plane unless they've been vaccinated two weeks before; including the crew. Anyone involved in transport of any sort should be vaccinated as a priority. There are a bunch of use cases the medics absolutely know are likely super-spreaders but we have to follow the "kind" vaccination route (old to young) rather than the effective route. I know it hits old people harder, but they've had a year to get their social distancing and lockdown shit together at this point, and yet when I (quite rarely now) go out, I still see oldies being just as irresponsible as teenagers.

This is absolutely true re some of the old.... and I believe it is potentilaly the same the world over - here they are the ones not wearing masks (I know it is not mandetory but the 30 to 60 group seem to be the most compliant to that recommendation - they are also the group on the very few occasions that I have been to the supermarket who have no clue about social distancing..... Maybe it should be made clear that until vaccination if they are found being irresponsible they will go to the bottom of the vaccination list..... I am not sure how the list is generated as of last week my mum who is now behaving herself (it took a while) has not been contacted and she is 83 with a heart condition - neither of my brothers have been contacted either both in the vulnerable group both mid to late 50s..

 

[Deebs]

This is absolutely true re some of the old.... and I believe it is potentilaly the same the world over - here they are the ones not wearing masks (I know it is not mandetory but the 30 to 60 group seem to be the most compliant to that recommendation - they are also the group on the very few occasions that I have been to the supermarket who have no clue about social distancing..... Maybe it should be made clear that until vaccination if they are found being irresponsible they will go to the bottom of the vaccination list..... I am not sure how the list is generated as of last week my mum who is now behaving herself (it took a while) has not been contacted and she is 83 with a heart condition - neither of my brothers have been contacted either both in the vulnerable group both mid to late 50s..

Can someone check with her GP to see if she has been "missed"?

The over 50s are in group 9 and I believe in England they have started group 4, not sure of the status of the other 3 nations. I read somewhere (cannot find it now) that group 9 should be reached sometime in March.

 

[Scouse]

tely know are likely super-spreaders but we have to follow the "kind" vaccination route (old to young) rather than the effective route

We're following the vaccination route most likely to prevent death.

The goal isn't to stop it spreading (yet) it's to stop people dying.

 

[Yoni]

You really need to let that go. It's an emotional rather than rational response yons.

Sorry not emotional and very rational... the issues with the vaccine were found during the testing phsae..... I just know of parents with kids who were vaccinated who were affected..

 

[Deebs]

Interesting, I see on Twitter people getting their jabs in America in drive thrus. However, when my Dad got his jab last week he was made to wait 15 minutes before leaving the centre.

Are we being over cautious or is it because of a different vaccine?

 

[Yoni]

Can someone check with her GP to see if she has been "missed"?

The over 50s are in group 9 and I believe in England they have started group 4, not sure of the status of the other 3 nations. I read somewhere (cannot find it now) that group 9 should be reached sometime in March.

My sister is dealing with it - apart from the heart issues she is a very healthy 83 year old - as for my brothers I am sure they will be vaccinated as soon as it is available in the meantime they can continue to stay away from people

 

[Yoni]

Sorry @Deebs but the UK government, the police and the actual figures show that the vast majority of the UK public have been highly compliant with the requests - just like human animals from other countries.

The differentiating factor between the UK's abysmal performance and other countries isn't the people - it's the leadership.

Decisions taken too late and half assed measures - in direct conflict with scientific advice. Importantly - a failure on our leadership to learn the lessons from those mistakes so they were repeated.

Programme failures, governance failures, poor quality and mixed messaging. The reasons are myriad - it's not one failure that has led to such a devastating death toll comparative to the whole world but multiple and consistent failures.


Multiple and consistent failings and a failure to learn from mistakes equals clear incompetence.

The result of that incompetence has been death. More death than other countries, battling the same disease but doing much better.

I can think of no clearer indication of a total failure of leadership than the situation we find ourselves in with bodies continuing to rack up at world-fastest rates.

He has already stated that after the pandemic calms down there should be a full independent equiry.... that is the best solution at the moment - a cabinet resignation will just make things a lot worse in the midst of an emergency...

 

[Raven]

I am sorry if I came across as that, I can assure you from the bottom of my heart I am not. Just like the UK Government has fucked up, the EU has fucked up and the people suffer for it.

Moving on, this is an interesting graphic which shows where the vaccine is being made around the world.

View attachment 43695

The take home from that is that Africa and the Middle East need help, once we have our ducks in a row we should be pushing the vaccines there.

 

[DaGaffer]

We're following the vaccination route most likely to prevent death.

The goal isn't to stop it spreading (yet) it's to stop people dying.

I'm aware of that. But you also stop people dying by stopping it spreading, and lockdown is a bandaid; if you don't head off the likely super-spreaders, you raise the lockdown and the numbers go up again. If we're going to have a shortage of vaccines for the forseeable, using them where they do the most good for everybody makes sense.

 

[Deebs]

The take home from that is that Africa and the Middle East need help, once we have our ducks in a row we should be pushing the vaccines there.

Looks like India and Russia have that covered. The Serum is a seriously big plant taking on the lion's share. Hopefully the yields on plants around the world will increase even more as they refine the process and get more doses out to everyone from all producers.

 

[Deebs]

To be fair, the pace of the EU vaccine rollout is self-inflicted. It's been absolutely appalling. It seems to have been far more focused on cost than efficacy, and that's come back to bite us collectively on the arse. I'm extremely pissed off that the one time living in a small country should be an advantage, we can't leverage it. We could have been nearly done by now, but thanks to the EU we've barely started.

You seen this @DaGaffer. Looks like Ireland is only getting 300,000 doses in Feb/March of AZ.

Major setback as HSE set to get just 300,000 doses of AstraZeneca vaccine

The Covid-19 vaccination roll-out, particularly to the over-70s, will suffer a serious setback as the HSE looks set to get only around 300,000 doses of the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine in February and March.

www.independent.ie

 

[Scouse]

a cabinet resignation will just make things a lot worse in the midst of an emergency...

That doesn't follow at all.

3 months ago we replaced a programme manager who was heading a multi-year clusterfuck. It was't 100% clear that it was him, but having done everything else humanly possible (and at great expense) it was the last roll of the dice.

The result? An immediate uptick and rapidly righted ship. Indicators are all now trending positive and financials are back on track. Regulator (and business) much happier.

It's not the staff underneath - it's the direction they're given and top-level decisionmaking.

Head of that programme, one person (amongst hundreds) changed. Things get much better.

Same can happen in government. Replace Johnson with someone who doesn't just get by on charisma alone - something we all knew (or at least suspected) when he was voted in - and we replace the top-level decision maker.

From the evidence (100,000 deaths, world-beatingly shit performance) it's likely that almost anyone would perform better than him. A competent but less popular performer is what is required.

I think that's glaringly obvious tbpfh.

 

[Embattle]

Interesting, I see on Twitter people getting their jabs in America in drive thrus. However, when my Dad got his jab last week he was made to wait 15 minutes before leaving the centre.

Are we being over cautious or is it because of a different vaccine?

America is largely one big drive through.

Personally I'm in Group 4 for vaccination.

 

[Deebs]

@Wij

China’s Zero-Tolerance Covid Tactics Now Include Anal Swabs

China is ramping up efforts to neutralize the coronavirus as new outbreaks challenge its already stringent pandemic strategy, with another weapon added to an arsenal of border curbs, mass testing and hard lockdowns: anal swabs.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Scouse]

If we're going to have a shortage of vaccines for the forseeable, using them where they do the most good for everybody makes sense.

We won't, you will

I get what you're saying but they'll have modelled that.

This will be the last lockdown IMO. We'll have vaccinated the most likely death candidates by, say, April/May. Then things'll gradually open up again.

Vaccination programme will continue. Deaths will be in their tens, not hundreds or thousands. Disease will still spread but as long as we ignore long covid then we'll be told it's more or less over.


What a clusterfuck of mismanagement.

 

[Deebs]

What a load of bollocks to both tweets.

 

[Bodhi]

What a load of bollocks to both tweets.

View attachment 43696

I give it 5 minutes before we get some idiot saying "Muh New Zyeland!"!"!"

 

[Scouse]

I give it 5 minutes before we get some idiot saying "Muh New Zyeland!"!"!"

Rather than South Korea. A densely populated democratic country of 70 million who prepared along WHO guidelines...