Politics Coronavirus

[Raven]

See @Tay. And find a new record for your player this ones broken

That doesn't stop it from being true. The Tories have fucked this up, essentially to the point of criminality. They have directly caused 10s of thousands of deaths and have now even admitted as much.

They aren't fit for purpose.

Every single one of them should resign, if they had any decency whatsoever.

 

[Moriath]

100,000 dead. Third worst record on the planet.

Tell me - what would it take for you to condemn what can be objectively measured as a failure of world-topping proportions?

They're real people @Moriath. Not just figures in the news. Brothers, sisters, mothers, sons.

Dead, because of Tory incompetence.

The blame can be thrown in many directions including where you are.

its easy to poke at one person and not see the bigger picture.

if it makes you sleep better at night having one hate figure go for it. Knock yourself out.

Truth is that if we had corbyn here then the same set of scientist would be advising him. The same set of lobbyists would be pushing their agenda. The same balancing act would be being played out between commerce and health.

you and many others raged against brexit. The only thing that would have saved the situation here is if we closed our borders day one. And did brexit hard style.

no refugees in. No deliveries from the eu. Complete isolation.

its a novel situation where no one had the right answer. Whoever was in power at the time would have it in the neck.

if you think for one second that there is anyone in the government that is celebrating that 100k people have died cause of this you are deranged. If you think that every decision was painfully analysed before it was made you are stupid.

theres no play book .. you can hypothesise what might have happened .. what could have been with hind sight. But unless you were there with all the pressures from everyone wanting their own agenda and trying to walk the line between. And probably appeasing no one you are just one person shouting at yourself in an echo chamber.

so shhh.

 

[caLLous]

Put a sock in it @Moriath ffs. The Tories have fucked it up with such regularity it's difficult to even quantify. The guidance has changed 64 times and that was a few weeks ago. Weren't you one of the ones protesting against holding them to account months ago... now you're saying "what could have been with hindsight"?

 

[dysfunction]

The blame can be thrown in many directions including where you are.

its easy to poke at one person and not see the bigger picture.

if it makes you sleep better at night having one hate figure go for it. Knock yourself out.

Truth is that if we had corbyn here then the same set of scientist would be advising him. The same set of lobbyists would be pushing their agenda. The same balancing act would be being played out between commerce and health.

you and many others raged against brexit. The only thing that would have saved the situation here is if we closed our borders day one. And did brexit hard style.

no refugees in. No deliveries from the eu. Complete isolation.

its a novel situation where no one had the right answer. Whoever was in power at the time would have it in the neck.

if you think for one second that there is anyone in the government that is celebrating that 100k people have died cause of this you are deranged. If you think that every decision was painfully analysed before it was made you are stupid.

theres no play book .. you can hypothesise what might have happened .. what could have been with hind sight. But unless you were there with all the pressures from everyone wanting their own agenda and trying to walk the line between. And probably appeasing no one you are just one person shouting at yourself in an echo chamber.

so shhh.

We could quite easily have closed the borders but still allowed goods etc to come from the EU. Not everything needs to have people delivering it.
If you really think they followed the science then you are mistaken. Every decision was delayed while the evidence for action piled up.
Just like in Nov the infection rates, hospitalisations etc were all rising to danger levels and what did we do? We waited until January to lockdown.

We didnt even take our own advice that we issued when there was an Ebola breakout in Africa.

It's idiocy from the Tory government that we are in this position. Pure and simple.

 

[Raven]

The blame can be thrown in many directions including where you are.

its easy to poke at one person and not see the bigger picture.

if it makes you sleep better at night having one hate figure go for it. Knock yourself out.

Truth is that if we had corbyn here then the same set of scientist would be advising him. The same set of lobbyists would be pushing their agenda. The same balancing act would be being played out between commerce and health.

you and many others raged against brexit. The only thing that would have saved the situation here is if we closed our borders day one. And did brexit hard style.

no refugees in. No deliveries from the eu. Complete isolation.

its a novel situation where no one had the right answer. Whoever was in power at the time would have it in the neck.

if you think for one second that there is anyone in the government that is celebrating that 100k people have died cause of this you are deranged. If you think that every decision was painfully analysed before it was made you are stupid.

theres no play book .. you can hypothesise what might have happened .. what could have been with hind sight. But unless you were there with all the pressures from everyone wanting their own agenda and trying to walk the line between. And probably appeasing no one you are just one person shouting at yourself in an echo chamber.

so shhh.

What absolute bullshit. WTF has it got to do with Corbyn?!

Most truck drivers just sit in their cab while it's all unloaded, it's not like they park up and fuck off down the pub to cough over everyone. Goods in and out of any country is responsible for a ridiculously tiny amount of, if any, transmissions.

The borders should have been shut from day one.
Schools should have been shut from day one
Pubs and restaurants should have been shut from day one.
Social distancing while shopping should have been clamped down on from day one. Have you not noticed that when it was a bit iffy early on, everyone queued, one way system etc. Even during the recent huge peak it's still a free-for-all.
All workers that work at a screen should be working from home, from day one. They still aren't, it should be temporarily mandated in law.

It's all been stop-start-stop-start-stop-start, which has damaged the economy far more than a hard shut down in the spring/beginning of summer. Perhaps then we would have entered winter in a better state.

We are an island ffs, it's not that hard to keep people out. Very few people swim here!


And all that doesn't even begin to cover the dodgy deals done by the Tories with recent start-ups and ex-marketing firms and the complete loss of any sort of confidence in the government message with the whole Cummings fiasco and the absolute refusal to do anything about it by the Tories.

They are an abject failure. No ifs, no buts. Utterly fucking useless.

 

[Raven]

Jesus Christ, we still had open flights with Brazil and South Africa days/weeks after the new strains. The Tories are literally undefendable.

An island nation 3rd worst in the world. Christ fucking shit balls.

 

[Embattle]

Head of AstraZeneca rejects calls for UK vaccine to be diverted to EU

Chief executive of pharmaceutical giant says the firm will honour UK’s earlier contract despite EU anger over shortfall

www.theguardian.com

 

[Embattle]

There are without doubt many reasons why we have some of the highest death figures including population density, obesity levels, virus variant, etc. however I've also no doubt that the current government is also one of the reasons.

Once properly under control well undoubtedly have years of enquiries, hopefully also some proper systems put in place to deal with the next outbreak.

 

[Moriath]

Yup ok. You disagree.

see how much i care about yr disagreement.

there are lots of things that could have been done better. But i dont agree that any one took those decisions on a basis that they were going to hurt anyone.

theres a lot of emption going on here.

be it the anti depressants or the genetics i was born with i have no emotional attachment to any of the numbers or videos on the tv.

its not my fault. Its the way i was born and the way that my thinking works.

you guys talk about being tolerant of differences but f someone offers a different point of view to yourselves you lose yr shit.

either accept that you have put your side, i have put mine, nothing you say or I will really affect whats happening. Now go cry in your impotence.

before you go off on one. I support all those doing what ever they can to allow more ppl to live. And locally i regularly argue with those twats who dont want to wear a mask or something. But directing arguments at me about a situation that really is bigger than a government. Itsa global issue. If the Chinese had not been so scared to lose face to the west we wouldnt be here in the first place.

you pick easy local targets instead of seeing the bigger problem. The negatives over the positive.

i argue when i am in the mood because your though process and direction is flawed.

 

[Deebs]

100,000 dead. Third worst record on the planet.

Tell me - what would it take for you to condemn what can be objectively measured as a failure of world-topping proportions?

They're real people @Moriath. Not just figures in the news. Brothers, sisters, mothers, sons.

Dead, because of Tory incompetence.

and because of the populations incompetence. The Tories fucked up along the way but so did the people for not following advice. The blame lies at multiple people's feet.

 

[Deebs]

It's a gigantic shit show, by way of the EU being absolute control freaks, nothing more. Plenty of countries were in the advanced stage of getting it all set up but the EU fucked them off to do a combined effort, turns out, just like socialism, everyone gets dry fucked.

It's worth noting that this is not the UK threatening the EU (and others) with pulling their critical vaccine supply, it is the EU doing it because they are a slow moving, bureaucratic fuck up that should have had the supply chain details ironed out months ago.

I am not sure anyone is saying haha we won and all that shit but why should countries that did get on the ball early suffer for EU pissing about?

Heads need to roll in the EU hierarchy, I'm sure that will happen at the next election...

Absolutely not a "haha we won" moment, this is about saving and costing lives and the EU has shown just how shit it is at doing everything for all its members thinking it knows what is best for all 27 member states combined.

 

[Ormorof]

and because of the populations incompetence. The Tories fucked up along the way but so did the people for not following advice. The blame lies at multiple people's feet.

The advice seems to have changed so often its hard to blame people, not to mention MPs from all parties (and a certain asshat doing an eye test) not following govs own rules and advice

 

[Deebs]

The advice seems to have changed so often its hard to blame people, not to mention MPs from all parties (and a certain asshat doing an eye test) not following govs own rules and advice

Why? I am still safe after following all the changed advice. You cannot simply remove the population from responsibility.

So all the people being told to stay at home/meet bubbles and social distance but instead fucking off down the beach, holding parties and raves, meeting up in the park (all with no social distancing) bear no responsilibity for helping to spread the virus?

 

[Ormorof]

Of course they do, people are responsible for their actions

But governments changing their advice so fast is not good, it makes it much easier for misinformation to spread. The whole eat out to help out was only weeks before starting to fine people for eating out its been an insane set of flip flopping guidelines, it needs to be consistent or it won't work. And gov types need to follow it, or there will be zero trust in future messages

 

[Deebs]

Head of AstraZeneca rejects calls for UK vaccine to be diverted to EU

Chief executive of pharmaceutical giant says the firm will honour UK’s earlier contract despite EU anger over shortfall

www.theguardian.com

This is an even better read:

Pascal Soriot: "There are a lot of emotions on vaccines in EU. But it's complicated"

An exclusive interview with AstraZeneca's CEO on the accusations from Europe after the delay of Oxford vaccine supplies, some revealing details of the vacc…

www.repubblica.it

 

[Yoni]

and because of the populations incompetence. The Tories fucked up along the way but so did the people for not following advice. The blame lies at multiple people's feet.

Whilst I agree that individuals have a responsibility and in the UK there "seems" a group who are really taking the piss, the current cabinet is an absolute disgrace. If the 1922 committee do not resolve this once the pandemic is more undercontrol then the whole party can be held accountable... just like the GOP in the US was conducive in the riots on the capital by enabling trump for 4 years and also should come underfire for their association.

 

[Deebs]

Whilst I agree that individuals have a responsibility and in the UK there "seems" a group who are really taking the piss, the current cabinet is an absolute disgrace. If the 1922 committee do not resolve this once the pandemic is more undercontrol then the whole party can be held accountable... just like the GOP in the US was conducive in the riots on the capital by enabling trump for 4 years and also should come underfire for their association.

I totally support the idea of an independant enquiry to how the Government and population handled this pandemic once, like you say, it is more under control.

 

[Yoni]

This is an even better read:

Pascal Soriot: "There are a lot of emotions on vaccines in EU. But it's complicated"

An exclusive interview with AstraZeneca's CEO on the accusations from Europe after the delay of Oxford vaccine supplies, some revealing details of the vacc…

www.repubblica.it

I would have throught by now it would be clearly understood that gloating may possibly come back and bite the gloatees in the ass this is not a threat it is just unfortunately how humans work. Personally I believe the "world" should be focussed on ensuring the most vulnerable are vaccinated as soon as possible.... The post made by Wij is a much more unbiased presentation of the situation - it really makes one think a little bit more.

 

[Deebs]

I would have throught by now it would be clearly understood that gloating may possibly come back and bite the gloatees in the ass this is not a threat it is just unfortunately how humans work. Personally I believe the "world" should be focussed on ensuring the most vulnerable are vaccinated as soon as possible.... The post made by Wij is a much more unbiased presentation of the situation - it really makes one think a little bit more.

This is the actual interview with the CEO of AZ. There is no gloating, he is merely pointing out the fact that the EU Commission are fucktards. The UK Government has stated that once the initial 100M doses have been delivered then the UK plants can export doeses to the EU to help.

 

[Yoni]

I do not believe a world that comes out of his mouth... he is CEO of a parma co... He is just spinning a story to keep his shareholders happy.. As for gloating I was not talking about him....

 

[Deebs]

I do not believe a world that comes out of his mouth... he is CEO of a parma co... He is just spinning a story to keep his shareholders happy.. As for gloating I was not talking about him....

Sigh. He has said this publically, if it is a spin story the EU will be going after him and he has made himself liable for any lies with regard to the contract. As for implying I might be gloating, nope. I just feel sorry for the people due to the ineptitude of the EC. Remember they overruled the IVA. This is all their OWN doing.

 

[Raven]

I do not believe a world that comes out of his mouth... he is CEO of a parma co... He is just spinning a story to keep his shareholders happy.. As for gloating I was not talking about him....

There are no two ways about it, the EU have fucked up, not intentionally ofc just by being a slow moving bureaucratic mess, this was the perfect test of joined up action within the EU, over rulling countries own plans, simply because they want control. You can't immediately ramp up production of vaccines just because the EU have all of a sudden decided that they want it. If they had got it sorted in May, like we did then they would not be in this mess. That isn't gloating, it just is what it is.

They still haven't even passed the Astrazenica vaccine, so what are they complaining about?

 

[Embattle]

I do not believe a world that comes out of his mouth... he is CEO of a parma co... He is just spinning a story to keep his shareholders happy.. As for gloating I was not talking about him....

To me it comes across as more of a counter offensive than spin.

 

[Deebs]

There are no two ways about it, the EU have fucked up, not intentionally ofc just by being a slow moving bureaucratic mess, but you can't immediately ramp up production of vaccines just because the EU have all of a sudden decided that they want it. If they had got it sorted in May, like we did then they would not be in this mess. That isn't gloating, it just is what it is.

They still haven't even passed the Astrazenica vaccine, so what are they complaining about?

Read the interview I posted, it explains how they make the vaccine and the problems they faced in the UK and are now facing in the Belgian plant.

Edit:

And the low yields in other plants across the world.

 

[Raven]

Yep, nobody has experience of making a vaccine on this scale in the time needed to get it out to people, it is all an unknown and the earlier it is started the better, there is no time for fucking about.

 

[Yoni]

You should be aware that your posts do not read in a sympathetic way @Deebs reagardless of your intent...

What you are forgetting is that there are people around the world not just in the EU who are in need of a vaccine either for age or before a lot of individuals and I believe ALL vaccines should be distributed to those first regardless of nationality. As for the UK to be honest you need it more than most they have the 6th worst deaths per million in the world - for an island who could shut shut its boarders it is shocking.

@Raven careful there you are begining to be as defensive about AZ as Moriarty is of the government (no government has experienced a pandemic before they are just trying to find their way bullshit - even though now we are a year on and they are making the same choices over and over again)... neither is a good look....

 

[Raven]

That also reads as well you're shit so we can be shit too.

Sorry, it doesn't work like that, I have repeatedly said that the vaccine is the only thing the Tories have got right and that was a massive gamble that just so happened to pay off.

Questions need to be answered. Why did the EU overrule countries that started early, like we did? Why have they still not authorised the vaccine that they are complaining about? Why are they allowing such damaging 'scientific' papers like that 8% bullshit? What exactly do they expect companies to do? Hold off in countries that have set up properly and make them wait? The two systems UK and EU work in parallel, our production has no effect at all on EU production, it's just an excuse.

We were ready, they weren't, it stands to reason that we would be at a more advanced stage in production and distribution. We have even hinted at cooperation, something that thanks to Brexit we have no real obligation to do, except for the obvious humanitarian ofc but the same could be said for helping poorer countries first that do not have the power or resources that the EU have.

 

[Deebs]

You should be aware that your posts do not read in a sympathetic way @Deebs reagardless of your intent...

What you are forgetting is that there are people around the world not just in the EU who are in need of a vaccine either for age or before a lot of individuals and I believe ALL vaccines should be distributed to those first regardless of nationality. As for the UK to be honest you need it more than most they have the 6th worst deaths per million in the world - for an island who could shut shut its boarders it is shocking.

@Raven careful there you are begining to be as defensive about AZ as Moriarty is of the government (no government has experienced a pandemic before they are just trying to find their way bullshit - even though now we are a year on and they are making the same choices over and over again)... neither is a good look....

You are merely reading them through rose tinted glasses, nowhere have I made a gloating remark and if you believe I have perhaps you can point one out.

People around the world? Have you heard of Covac? The UK has pledged £500 million to it.

And @Raven is not defending AZ, he is stating his opinion on how the EC has fucked up.

 

[caLLous]

You are merely reading them through rose tinted glasses, nowhere have I made a gloating remark and if you believe I have perhaps you can point one out.

A Leave voter describing an article that puts the EU in a negative light as "an even better read" could certainly be interpreted as gloating.

 

[Deebs]

A Leave voter describing an article that puts the EU in a negative light as "an even better read" could certainly be interpreted as gloating.

Fucksake, it was an interview with the CEO of AZ responding to the claims by the EU. Nothing more or less. His side of the "story". I said even better as it was the FULL transcript of the interview and not soundbites.