Politics Coronavirus

Scouse

Giant Thundercunt
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
35,981
I suppose it'd be alright if the vaccine worked instantly; I don't see my Grandma's carehome opening up normally for visitors for a loooong time (until *everyone* is vaccinated), which begs the question; what's the point getting the residents vaccinated when they'll only ever been in contact with vaccinated staff until their families are vaccinated, but then you have the place that old people love the most; hospitals.
You vaccinate the whole care home in a day. Two weeks later they're not going to die of covid.

It's kind of a no-brainer compared to trying to speed up getting us back in the pub. (Which I really really want)
 

Moriath

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
16,209
Hmmm @Bodhi facepalmed my post about the ZA virus strain. Dont like that it might be less susceptible to the vaccine?
 

Bodhi

Once agreed with Scouse and a LibDem at same time
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,270
Hmmm @Bodhi facepalmed my post about the ZA virus strain. Dont like that it might be less susceptible to the vaccine?

Because it was covered in the interview with Prof Balloux I posted yesterday, who was at pains to point out this isn't a vaccine escape variant or anything like that. Considering he spends his days mapping the genome of all the various COVID mutations, I'll take his word over a nutritionist with dubious medical qualifications like Sridhar.
 

Raven

Happy Shopper Ray Mears
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
44,617
It's completely pointless giving it to people in a care home, it's not like they are going anywhere or be allowed to have face to face visitors. Give it to the staff.

Nurses/Doctors/Hospital staff/Ambulance drivers
Care home workers
Teachers
Shop workers/delivery people
High risk people at home
Police
Fire
Then the elderly, then the rest of us. In that order.
 

Aoami

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
11,223
order should be:

1. pub landlords
2. the regulars
3. pub chefs
4. health care workers
5. me and the boys
6. my nan
7. everyone else
 

Scouse

Giant Thundercunt
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
35,981
It's completely pointless giving it to people in a care home, it's not like they are going anywhere or be allowed to have face to face visitors. Give it to the staff.
Come off it. People want to visit their relatives in care homes. Before that happens they *must* be immunised.

Immunity for the staff doesn't mean that they won't 100% pass it on. It just means that they won't die of an infection if they get it. But they could well kill their residents if their residents aren't immunised.

:rolleyes:
 

Gwadien

Uneducated Northern Cretin
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Messages
19,842
Come off it. People want to visit their relatives in care homes. Before that happens they *must* be immunised.

Immunity for the staff doesn't mean that they won't 100% pass it on. It just means that they won't die of an infection if they get it. But they could well kill their residents if their residents aren't immunised.

:rolleyes:

But care homes probably won't open up normally until all the relatives are also vaccinated.

I mean most care homes (if not all) have setup meeting rooms with a glass/plastic divider (like a prison) and I think care homes will be using those rooms for a very very long time.
 

Bodhi

Once agreed with Scouse and a LibDem at same time
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,270
It's completely pointless giving it to people in a care home, it's not like they are going anywhere or be allowed to have face to face visitors. Give it to the staff.

Nurses/Doctors/Hospital staff/Ambulance drivers
Care home workers
Teachers
Shop workers/delivery people
High risk people at home
Police
Fire
Then the elderly, then the rest of us. In that order.

Thankfully this isn't the plan, considering the large volume of infections and deaths that are coming from care homes.
 

Scouse

Giant Thundercunt
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
35,981
But care homes probably won't open up normally until all the relatives are also vaccinated.
And the same applies. Vaccinated relatives could potentially kill them - and no matter how secure your biosecurity arrangements (monitored by minimum wage staff) you'd still be putting lives at risk.

Stick a jab in their arm, that worry goes away. Simple.


This objection to protecting the most vulnerable in our society smacks a little of "me me me" and "fuck the olds - they're dying anyway". :(
 

Bodhi

Once agreed with Scouse and a LibDem at same time
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,270
And the same applies. Vaccinated relatives could potentially kill them - and no matter how secure your biosecurity arrangements (monitored by minimum wage staff) you'd still be putting lives at risk.

Stick a jab in their arm, that worry goes away. Simple.


This objection to protecting the most vulnerable in our society smacks a little of "me me me" and "fuck the olds - they're dying anyway". :(

Yep, aka The Great Barrington Declaration, just with vaccines rather than infection control.

Anyway if you want a demonstration of why vaccinating care homes is our way out of this, have a read of the below, it's pretty sobering.


View: https://twitter.com/rwjdingwall/status/1351479321588862976?s=20


Survey done of crematoriums in South Wales to see where the deaths originated from - over 50% were from health care settings, about half and half care homes v hospitals. Given the hospital deaths look to have occurred in seriously ill people I'm not sure what good vaccination will do there, but protecting care home residents looks like a quick win to get the numbers down. Then we need a serious look at why infections can spread so easily in places where people are supposed to be looked after.
 

Scouse

Giant Thundercunt
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
35,981
Hospitals are some of the most dangerous places we have. Have been since long before covid.

It's simply because real biosecurity is very very hard (and incredibly obstructive (and expensive)) to do.
 

Tay

Grumpy old fecker
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,310

Tay

Grumpy old fecker
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,310
Yep, aka The Great Barrington Declaration, just with vaccines rather than infection control.

Anyway if you want a demonstration of why vaccinating care homes is our way out of this, have a read of the below, it's pretty sobering.


View: https://twitter.com/rwjdingwall/status/1351479321588862976?s=20


Survey done of crematoriums in South Wales to see where the deaths originated from - over 50% were from health care settings, about half and half care homes v hospitals. Given the hospital deaths look to have occurred in seriously ill people I'm not sure what good vaccination will do there, but protecting care home residents looks like a quick win to get the numbers down. Then we need a serious look at why infections can spread so easily in places where people are supposed to be looked after.


Reference your last statement, some of it will be down to the poor management of "for profit' care homes. PPE management was and possibly still is next to useless. I know for a fact some of the instructions that were given to staff re:changing PPE every 2hrs no matter what, it was simply with a view to saving money, but making it sound like they cared. PPE should be changed on a per patient/requirement basis not at a scheduled time ffs

I understand they were suing lateral flow tests to determine in 30mins if relatives could visit last year, as I've said before I'm not convinced by them, many of the front line NHS staff have been on a trial the wife included, yet 2 of her friend still tested negative whilst being off sick with covid after positive PCR tests.
 

Tay

Grumpy old fecker
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,310
I suppose it'd be alright if the vaccine worked instantly; I don't see my Grandma's carehome opening up normally for visitors for a loooong time (until *everyone* is vaccinated), which begs the question; what's the point getting the residents vaccinated when they'll only ever been in contact with vaccinated staff until their families are vaccinated, but then you have the place that old people love the most; hospitals.

Hopefully that should be too far along the way though. The vast majority of care home occupants are 65+ which should get picked up in the next traunch of vaccinations, unless of course they have comormidities that get them further up the list.

Ref: the later part of you post, until it was mentioned today that after the Pfizer/BioNtech vaccination people have near on no chance of passing it on, I would have still been worried, but less so now.
 

Tay

Grumpy old fecker
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,310
It's completely pointless giving it to people in a care home, it's not like they are going anywhere or be allowed to have face to face visitors. Give it to the staff.

Nurses/Doctors/Hospital staff/Ambulance drivers
Care home workers
Teachers
Shop workers/delivery people
High risk people at home
Police
Fire
Then the elderly, then the rest of us. In that order.

The deciding factor was likelihood of dying from it. The older people were/are the more likelyhood that this plus their other co-morbidities would kill them.

Its about risk of dying, and that hasnt changed since this started.
 

Scouse

Giant Thundercunt
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
35,981
Why couldn't the maker of the vaccine tell us that?
First sentence - new study.

Later on in the article - it's a "may" not a "does". So who knows.

Either way - it's a moot point. That's after two doses - we're currently only ponying up a single dose, and not following up with the other until three months. So we're massively gambling anyway.

All Pfizer had to say about our strategy was "well, we've not tested for any of this shit, so you're on your own"...
 

Tay

Grumpy old fecker
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,310
First sentence - new study.

Later on in the article - it's a "may" not a "does". So who knows.

Either way - it's a moot point. That's after two doses - we're currently only ponying up a single dose, and not following up with the other until three months. So we're massively gambling anyway.

All Pfizer had to say about our strategy was "well, we've not tested for any of this shit, so you're on your own"...

For some reason I couldnt see the report that was clearly attached to the link...I think my DNS over https + VPN with Opera is having a bit of a fit.. then I missed my 10 min edit window in a diff browser :(

The numbers look promising, only a small number developed low antibodies and one of those was immune compromised anyway.
I wonder if there is a bit of a spin on this news to prevent old folks breaking lockdown and running around hugging teens saying "FUCK YOU wankers !!"

Especially since holiday bookings for over 65's are through the roof allegedly
 

Job

The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
21,652
With a high incidence of BAME workers in the care industry, it seems up to 50% of them could refuse the vaccine.

 

Gwadien

Uneducated Northern Cretin
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Messages
19,842
With a high incidence of BAME workers in the care industry, it seems up to 50% of them could refuse the vaccine.


Why do you think this is the case?

I'd also like to add the majority of people I've seen at my grandma's two care homes have been white people.

But I don't know how that reflects across the board, being from Leicester I would have assumed we'd have way more BAME than other cities.
 

Scouse

Giant Thundercunt
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
35,981
I'd also like to add the majority of people I've seen at my grandma's two care homes have been white people.
After last time @Job went on about this (and I actually agreed on staff proportions) I went and looked it up properly.

It's bullshit. Permanent care home staff ethnicity reflects the UK population pretty well.

So he's just wrong. Again. (But I couldn't be arsed arguing at the time).
 

Job

The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
21,652
Well strangely we are constantly being reminded how bame is the backbone of care and all these immigrants are an essential part of society because white people wont do it.

So it seems that the care profession is totally bucking the trend for bame low vaccination stats and its much more likely than usual for white people who are care workers to resist the vaccine than average.

Its all our fault whatever it is.
 

Deebs

Chief Arsewipe
Staff member
Moderator
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 11, 1997
Messages
9,076,920
Dad just confirmed he has received the jab, and Aldershot has given the vaccine to just over 3,000 residents as of this morning.
 

Scouse

Giant Thundercunt
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
35,981
Dad just confirmed he has received the jab, and Aldershot has given the vaccine to just over 3,000 residents as of this morning.
Tell him to stay properly locked down for two weeks.

The danger is that it makes him feel safe (and with the news from Israel about single jab efficacy...)

Good news tho.
 

Job

The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
21,652
All family members over 80 have had it.
Seems very safe, very few issues so far except those Norwegian deaths.
.

Tested pos for covid....died of covid, not old age.

Had vaccine then died...died of old age.

Just sayin.
 

Scouse

Giant Thundercunt
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
35,981
Just sayin.
"Fatal incidents among these severely frail patients following vaccination do not imply a causal relationship between COVID-19 vaccination and death," explains Dr Sara Viksmoen Watle, Senior Physician at the NIPH.
oh, and:
there are no statistical analyses that indicate that coronavirus vaccination has had an increased risk of death among those vaccinated
 

Bodhi

Once agreed with Scouse and a LibDem at same time
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,270
Me mum has had her first jab date through, for next week in Stafford.

I'd tell her how to act after she's had it, but as she's lived through a World War, two other epidemics, many Foot and Mouth crises, a World Cup, growing up in Glasgow and has a Biochemistry degree, I shall probably leave her to it :)
 

Gwadien

Uneducated Northern Cretin
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Messages
19,842
All family members over 80 have had it.
Seems very safe, very few issues so far except those Norwegian deaths.
.

Tested pos for covid....died of covid, not old age.

Had vaccine then died...died of old age.

Just sayin.

Job, you really need to tell us where you're getting this information from.

Are you a regular at the Norwegian Institute of Public Health website?
 

Scouse

Giant Thundercunt
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
35,981
Job, you really need to tell us where you're getting this information from.

Are you a regular at the Norwegian Institute of Public Health website?
Doesn't matter. When he posts it he posts the information that disproves what he says.

It's like he posts our evidence-based counter to his retarded argument for us :)
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom