Politics Coronavirus

Aoami

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I think were seeing the beginning of the end for the central office building and all the logistics and business surrounding it.
I don't think so. I see people WFH one or two days a week, it's a big leap to say people won't use offices anymore.
 

Jupitus

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I don't think so. I see people WFH one or two days a week, it's a big leap to say people won't use offices anymore.
Our HR is saying you need to commit (as and when) to 2 days in the office per week....
 

Yoni

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Explain how....
I feel dirty agreeing with Job however it really was not a good piece at all and barely factual, it has cherry picked the information it would like to potray. Firstly the writer should make it clear that in Sweden no government is allowed to implement curfews OR restrict another human as per lockdown - this is just not legal here and the government has no immediate power to be able to take that course of action. In order to implement a full lockdown there has to be a change in the law - something that would take years to go though so in Sweden - as seen during the crisis the government were given addtional powers to restrict movement - this did not mean enforcing a lockdown, it meant closing shopping centres etc which they did not act upon. So everyone is reliant upon recommendations - there was never going to be a lockdown here and they have not pushed for a change in law for future use either.

So given that there can be no lockdown the strategy taken here is actually NOTHING like the the US who had no strategy at all with the president giving a conflicting view to those responsible causing a massive amount of civil rioting. The US also believed that Sweden had got it wrong - with Trumpy standing up stating that fact that Sweden was suffering more than other European countries (in April) at a time when lots of countries were suffering either due to number of cases or lockdown. In fact not long after that he wanted everything to be open for .. Easter etc etc

In terms of infection take cases in June - they shot up because testing was made available for all however hospital numbers and more importantly ICU beds went down not up. At the moment we see an increase like ALL other european countries however it is not at the same level and the hospital humbers and ICU figures are not increasing dramatically (two weeks or more after infection). This is not to say there will not be an increase and if there is then the regions are now responsible for imposing further restrictions in consultation with the scientists (not the government). When Sweden talk about restrictions this is not confining people to their homes (as I have said this would be illegal), these restrictions can go to the extent of : limiting numbers in shopping centres,

The top one is new infections, the middle new entrys intensive care and the bottom is those that have died. As I have stated now many many times sadly the number who died in the majority were over 70 (5258 out of 5910 89%, 652 under the age of 70). As you can see the majority of these deaths occured Mar to May. The peak of infection in June did not lead to an increase in use of intensive care nor an increase in deaths.

Our old peoples homes are open for visitors at this time but most homes have a strict policy for visitors and staff not previously in place - masks, disinfection and perspex - the ban has been lifted as it has been concluded by the health authority that it is causing other health issues brought about by them being in isolation. I also read in the article that there was triage done during the height of infection - this was not a suprise to me we had already been made aware of this very early in the pandemic and also it is expected - is this not what was done in other countries? If there is a massive accident do you not triage at the time so that resources are spent on those most likely to survive (harsh but also factual).


1602820537408.png

As for strategy - we have been informed that our recommendations will be in place for the next 12 months with tougher restrictions in locations where there is an increase in hospitalisation and pressure on intensive care. In other countries there is not this statement there are things like "we will be open for Christmas, this is just for 2 weeks or 4 weeks". The model here although citizens are getting bored with it it FAR more sustainable than some of the other strategies seen in the last year - not perfect for sure but I believe we (in Sweden) are on the right path at this time.

In terms of communication we were also informed twice per week that it is expected that there will be an increase autumn winter, not only due to change in weather but there is also students going back to uni, schools opening and a lot of Swedish people lead a soitary life in the summer ie going to their summer houses and generally spending most of the lighter days outside.

Finally isolation when returning from foreign lands - why isolate when you can get a test on return and every 3 days and when you are tested it takes c. 24 hours after getting the test to get a response.
 

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Yoni

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Our HR is saying you need to commit (as and when) to 2 days in the office per week....
Our company has instructed managers to have employees working from home as much as possible and to follow the recommendations of the land you live in. So for me we all do between 2 and 3 days in the office with 50% or less in the office at any one time. I do have staff using public transport if they do not have a car and the company (inspite of the article above) GIVES employees face masks to use.

The organisation have invested in home office and processes and procedures have been changed so that this can be managed for all office workers. For production there has been lots of work to keep shifts in bubbles so that should we have an inncident it will be easy for use to inform individuals should they need to stay home. The support package given by he government is superb in Sweden but it is the same support package that is in place for companies going through extrodianary events rolled out. Unlke the UK (which I think have done better than expected although not good enough), the systems appear in place so that people here are not scared and can pay their bills and rent it is also in place until at least 31st of December - this includes short time working, first day sick (which used to be incurred by the employee but now it can be claimed back) and sickleave which the government now pay from day 2 rather than from day 15.
 

dysfunction

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I feel dirty agreeing with Job however it really was not a good piece at all and barely factual, it has cherry picked the information it would like to potray. Firstly the writer should make it clear that in Sweden no government is allowed to implement curfews OR restrict another human as per lockdown - this is just not legal here and the government has no immediate power to be able to take that course of action. In order to implement a full lockdown there has to be a change in the law - something that would take years to go though so in Sweden - as seen during the crisis the government were given addtional powers to restrict movement - this did not mean enforcing a lockdown, it meant closing shopping centres etc which they did not act upon. So everyone is reliant upon recommendations - there was never going to be a lockdown here and they have not pushed for a change in law for future use either.

So given that there can be no lockdown the strategy taken here is actually NOTHING like the the US who had no strategy at all with the president giving a conflicting view to those responsible causing a massive amount of civil rioting. The US also believed that Sweden had got it wrong - with Trumpy standing up stating that fact that Sweden was suffering more than other European countries (in April) at a time when lots of countries were suffering either due to number of cases or lockdown. In fact not long after that he wanted everything to be open for .. Easter etc etc

In terms of infection take cases in June - they shot up because testing was made available for all however hospital numbers and more importantly ICU beds went down not up. At the moment we see an increase like ALL other european countries however it is not at the same level and the hospital humbers and ICU figures are not increasing dramatically (two weeks or more after infection). This is not to say there will not be an increase and if there is then the regions are now responsible for imposing further restrictions in consultation with the scientists (not the government). When Sweden talk about restrictions this is not confining people to their homes (as I have said this would be illegal), these restrictions can go to the extent of : limiting numbers in shopping centres,

The top one is new infections, the middle new entrys intensive care and the bottom is those that have died. As I have stated now many many times sadly the number who died in the majority were over 70 (5258 out of 5910 89%, 652 under the age of 70). As you can see the majority of these deaths occured Mar to May. The peak of infection in June did not lead to an increase in use of intensive care nor an increase in deaths.

Our old peoples homes are open for visitors at this time but most homes have a strict policy for visitors and staff not previously in place - masks, disinfection and perspex - the ban has been lifted as it has been concluded by the health authority that it is causing other health issues brought about by them being in isolation. I also read in the article that there was triage done during the height of infection - this was not a suprise to me we had already been made aware of this very early in the pandemic and also it is expected - is this not what was done in other countries? If there is a massive accident do you not triage at the time so that resources are spent on those most likely to survive (harsh but also factual).


View attachment 42801

As for strategy - we have been informed that our recommendations will be in place for the next 12 months with tougher restrictions in locations where there is an increase in hospitalisation and pressure on intensive care. In other countries there is not this statement there are things like "we will be open for Christmas, this is just for 2 weeks or 4 weeks". The model here although citizens are getting bored with it it FAR more sustainable than some of the other strategies seen in the last year - not perfect for sure but I believe we (in Sweden) are on the right path at this time.

In terms of communication we were also informed twice per week that it is expected that there will be an increase autumn winter, not only due to change in weather but there is also students going back to uni, schools opening and a lot of Swedish people lead a soitary life in the summer ie going to their summer houses and generally spending most of the lighter days outside.

Finally isolation when returning from foreign lands - why isolate when you can get a test on return and every 3 days and when you are tested it takes c. 24 hours after getting the test to get a response.
I didnt want you to explain it...sigh
 

Scouse

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@Yoni - it's lovely that you adore sweden. I'm genuinely happy for you that you live somewhere you love as not everyone does.

However, I feel that because of that you won't brook any criticism of it - like an adoring but blinkered mother who won't see any of the bad side of her only child.

But hey ho. :)
 

Yoni

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I understand that but I was already replying to Moriath at the time on the initial post
 

Yoni

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@Yoni - it's lovely that you adore sweden. I'm genuinely happy for you that you live somewhere you love as not everyone does.

However, I feel that because of that you won't brook any criticism of it - like an adoring but blinkered mother who won't see any of the bad side of her only child.

But hey ho. :)
This is not true - I know where there are issues and I am politically active make changes where they are required.

What I do diagree with is the level of misinformation reported about Sweden during this time. Most of the misinformation being produced about Sweden is being used to control citizens in other countries as Trump tried to do back in April, when they try to deliver their complex often over exagerated strategies that do nothing but confuse their citizens and cause civil unrest which by its nature is causing the virus to spread further oO. Here the rules are simple and clear to understand : Click here in very plain english that anyone can understand - generally these are still being followed. There were interesting pictures howver from the nightclubs that opened last weekend however I suspect that they will not be open for long if they continue in that way.....
 

Raven

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The trouble is, at this point, what the government say is pretty pointless anyway. They undermined their message at every level and have never got any confidence back so people are trying to game the system. In fact continued blithering and dodgy deals for the Eton boys, over real front line support, have just made things worse.

I know it was months ago and people have done far "worse" since but Cummings decision to drive up to Durham for his mum's birthday and an eye test, followed by weak/obviously compromised leadership and a hilarious non-appology, followed by even more weak leadership has meant that from the get-go, people have been working against government, not with it. Seeing how far they can push the rules, or outright break them. We had booked a family meal for 8, 3 households) at the end of November for my sisters 40th, it was booked months ago in the hope that things would get better by now. I phoned to cancel and the restaurant said that they could just do two tables of 4 right next to each other 'it's legal mate'

People go on about the British spirit but it only works if we are united, we quickly ignore and ridicule weak leadership. Lead, follow or get out of the way. There are no statesmen or leaders left in British politics. Hasn't been since pre-Blair.

Comparatively, vs other euro countries, we aren't doing all that badly really but we could and should be doing a hell of a lot better and would be if it wasn't for the Tories...not that a Corbyn Labour would be doing any better, that doesn't bear thinking about.
 

Gwadien

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that a Corbyn Labour would be doing any better, that doesn't bear thinking about.
I can't believe I'm saying this...

It probably wouldn't have been as expensive under Corbyn :D

Or at least more money would have been spent on the people rather than corruption.
 

Scouse

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I think if Labour had been running the shop for the last decade the NHS would have already stockpiled the PPE - they wouldn't have ditched off the meeting on pandemic planning etc. Furlough would likely have covered more people and yep - the rich would have taken a little more of a hit.

A load of other stuff would be shit - but we'd likely have been better off in the pandemic.
 

Scouse

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Tory boys finding it funny and optimistic as per.

Underfunding the NHS is a Tory theme. But say what you need to yourselves to make you sleep good at night eh? :)
 

caLLous

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And they wouldn't have prioritised their woefully ill-equipped toff mates when it came to handing out contracts without tender. Or even worse, some seemingly untouchable SpAd's mates who ran Vote Leave with him.
 

Gwadien

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I don't really understand why there's such upset over the north-south divide in the UK over Covid.

When Wales and Scotland do whatever they like anyway?


I can see England doing the 2 week thing to, just in a true Westminster fashion, it'll be a very last minute decision.
 

Raven

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Wife hasn't heard anything about anything for a while now. I imagine they will tell her on the Friday to plan a weeks remote teaching, during her week off.
 

Raven

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Burnham is a snake, I can't stand him and he is playing Bojo like a fiddle, it's great :)
 

Embattle

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My sister's test was done and posted on Thursday, it got there on Friday still not heard any thing yet.
 

Moriath

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How else Are they going to make sure mr x stays at home? No one knows who to monitor unless the data is shared. Its only the manual test and trace not the phone app anyway. Cause thats apparently not got identifiable data stored.

or you prefer mr super spreader to keep on doing his thing when he should be at home?
 

Gwadien

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My sister's test was done and posted on Thursday, it got there on Friday still not heard any thing yet.
Yeah me neither, I did get a survey on the quality of the service which I thought was funny.

I also rang up the number to chase it up, but I was met with a layer of 20 options and thought fuck it i'll deal with it tomorrow.
 

Embattle

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Yeah my sister got the survey as well, the process has been fine until the most important bit of getting the results.

She rang them today because our mum is due to go to hospital for her pre-operative assessment on Tuesday, my mum can't go unless we get a negative result before then which would undoubtedly push her knee operation back.
 

Gwadien

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Yeah my sister got the survey as well, the process has been fine until the most important bit of getting the results.

She rang them today because our mum is due to go to hospital for her pre-operative assessment on Tuesday, my mum can't go unless we get a negative result before then which would undoubtedly push her knee operation back.
What did they say when she rang up? Computer says no?
 

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