Politics Coronavirus

[Bodhi]

N95? what have Nokia pre-smart phones got to do with anything?! (great phone at the time btw)

It's fairly simple science, for the slow among us. The mask 'helps' stop water droplets (that contain the virus, if you indeed have the virus) from leaving your gob from normal breathing. It's not the panacea of virus suppression, it's not a cure. Nobody expects a mask worn for several hours to still be effective but for a quick 30 mins super market shop, it will do. Wear the fucking thing.

The virus is literally spread by bodily fluid, as in mucus and exhalation, both directly and on surfaces, one step down from airborne. You have to be a complete spaz to not minimise that risk, regardless of how stupid you think you look. Washing hands and wearing a mask is the least you can fucking do.

Yeah, sure some people claim Sweden have done it right, with a population of 64 per square mile, but that just doesn't fly in a country with 727 per square mile.

If you aren't wearing a mask, you're a fucking moron.

I'd say you're a far bigger moron if you're comparing population densities country wide for a virus that mostly affects urban areas - look at the relevant densities of Stockholm and London and you'd be far closer. It's even more interesting if you compare Malmo and Copenhagen, but that might make you question the value of locking down, wouldn't want that now would we?

And you're right, it is fairly simple science. Cloth masks don't work (see study I posted earlier). I mean you could go with the study Scouse posted, which actually contains the phrase " But the report finds that face covering policy has been impacted by a lack of clear recommendations, likely because of an ‘over-reliance on an evidence-based approach and assertion that evidence was weak due to few conclusive RCT (randomized control trial) results "

So there's absolutely no evidence that cloth masks work, but it is scientific fact.

I thought Brass Eye was supposed to be satire?

 

[Bodhi]

And for some actual science - SARS-CoV-2-specific T cell immunity in cases of COVID-19 and SARS, and uninfected controls

 

[Exioce]

Seen ubiquitous take-up of mask wearing in shops in Scotland so far. No big deal just take it off when you get outside. I wear hiking/motorcycling buffs like a lot of blokes, wife uses pretty patterned ones she got online.

Heck of a hill to choose to die on.

 

[caLLous]

Christ on a bike, @Bodhi. You do like digging in over the most ridiculous things, don't you?

The aim of the Vietnamese study (from 2015) you linked to was, and I quote, "to compare the efficacy of cloth masks to medical masks in hospital healthcare workers". Hospital healthcare workers. You know, those who are on the front line and who are orders of magnitude more likely to be exposed to a virus.

The Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)

The mission of MIT is to advance knowledge and educate students in science, technology and other areas of scholarship that will best serve the nation and the world in the 21st century.

medical.mit.edu

The study you cite involved healthcare workers who experienced repeated exposures to the virus due to very close, often physical, contact with infected patients — the very definition of “high-risk situations.” Not surprisingly, the study showed that cloth masks did not protect against infection as well as medical-grade masks.

Read that and then have a think about whether the same safety measures should apply to somebody working in a hospital and somebody popping to the shops who wants to follow precautions and do what they can do prevent the spread.

Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus

We talked to UCSF epidemiologist George Rutherford, MD, and infectious disease specialist Peter Chin-Hong, MD, about the CDC’s reversal on mask-wearing, the current science on how masks work, and what to consider when choosing a mask.

www.ucsf.edu

 

[SilverHood]

Sobering reading in the Guardian.

Revealed: Italy's call for urgent help was ignored as coronavirus swept through Europe

Exclusive: A litany of failings meant that when Italy faced disaster, its distress call to the EU met with a shocking silence

www.theguardian.com

Shows the need facilities for mass producing PPE inside the European Union, even if its more expensive than Chinese imports.

 

[Raven]

I've got a box of surgical grade disposable masks, our warehouse manager at work went a bit mad and ordered shit loads.

 

[Raven]

Coronavirus: PM promises future independent inquiry

But a bereaved families group says an inquiry is needed now to learn lessons if there is a second spike.

www.bbc.co.uk

Will be a while off, take too long and not come to any real conclusions and if it doesn't come to the correct conclusions according to the Tories, won't get published.

 

[Bodhi]

Christ on a bike, @Bodhi. You do like digging in over the most ridiculous things, don't you?

The aim of the Vietnamese study (from 2015) you linked to was, and I quote, "to compare the efficacy of cloth masks to medical masks in hospital healthcare workers". Hospital healthcare workers. You know, those who are on the front line and who are orders of magnitude more likely to be exposed to a virus.

The Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)

The mission of MIT is to advance knowledge and educate students in science, technology and other areas of scholarship that will best serve the nation and the world in the 21st century.

medical.mit.edu

Read that and then have a think about whether the same safety measures should apply to somebody working in a hospital and somebody popping to the shops who wants to follow precautions and do what they can do prevent the spread.

Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus

We talked to UCSF epidemiologist George Rutherford, MD, and infectious disease specialist Peter Chin-Hong, MD, about the CDC’s reversal on mask-wearing, the current science on how masks work, and what to consider when choosing a mask.

www.ucsf.edu

No you're correct, an RCT demonstrating they are of no use whatsoever in a health care setting is totally irrelevant for what goes on in a shop - as everyone knows a mask that lets 97% of organic matter through in a health care setting will automatically block everything the second you set foot in Tesco.

 

[Scouse]

No you're correct, an RCT demonstrating they are of no use whatsoever in a health care setting is totally irrelevant for what goes on in a shop - as everyone knows a mask that lets 97% of organic matter through in a health care setting will automatically block everything the second you set foot in Tesco.

Funny. I'd picked a quote to copy down without reading the thread, and low and behold our boy Bodhi had just provided the perfect leader to it!

“The concept is risk reduction rather than absolute prevention,” said Chin-Hong. “You don’t throw up your hands if you think a mask is not 100 percent effective. That’s silly. Nobody’s taking a cholesterol medicine because they’re going to prevent a heart attack 100 percent of the time, but you’re reducing your risk substantially.”

So, scientist confirms @Bodhi is "officially silly".

Perhaps you should change your avatar title m8?

 

[Bodhi]

Funny. I'd picked a quote to copy down without reading the thread, and low and behold our boy Bodhi had just provided the perfect leader to it!



So, scientist confirms @Bodhi is "officially silly".

Perhaps you should change your avatar title m8?

If it was 50 or 60% effective - like a medical mask - I wouldn't object. But for something that's 3% effective that also presents other issues, such as CO2 inhalation, mildew and creates and enormous wet infection vector on your face?

I'll pass thanks, and use shops which aren't enforcing it.

 

[Embattle]

Sobering reading in the Guardian.

Revealed: Italy's call for urgent help was ignored as coronavirus swept through Europe

Exclusive: A litany of failings meant that when Italy faced disaster, its distress call to the EU met with a shocking silence

www.theguardian.com

Shows the need facilities for mass producing PPE inside the European Union, even if its more expensive than Chinese imports.

Quite frankly the west is going to need to pull a lot back from Winnie the Pooh's honey jar.

I'll pass thanks, and use shops which aren't enforcing it.

So no shopping for you from physical locations then.

 

[Bodhi]

So no shopping for you from physical locations then.

I'm sure I'll be fine

 

[Wij]

I'm sure I'll be fine

Tbh I get most of my grocery from prime now.

 

[Yoni]

Move to Sweden - they leave it up to individual here. I have masks for if I have to get public transport or fly for work (not requested atm). They are cloth but with a replaceable filter system.

 

[Moriath]

If it was 50 or 60% effective - like a medical mask - I wouldn't object. But for something that's 3% effective that also presents other issues, such as CO2 inhalation, mildew and creates and enormous wet infection vector on your face?

I'll pass thanks, and use shops which aren't enforcing it.

What i really care about is how this simple requirement absolutely shafts a lot of deaf and hard of hearing people. Its the unintended effects that you need to look at.

 

[Raven]

What i really care about is how this simple requirement absolutely shafts a lot of deaf and hard of hearing people. Its the unintended effects that you need to look at.

How?

Our warehouse guys have come up with using hard hat chin straps, attached to their face masks to wrap around the back of their heads.

 

[Moriath]

How?

Our warehouse guys have come up with using hard hat chin straps, attached to their face masks to wrap around the back of their heads.

Cause they cant lip read.. muppet . Many partially deaf people supplement their hearing by watching lips to pick the bits they miss.

 

[Raven]

Oh right, makes sense. Thought it was interfering with their hearing aids

 

[Job]

I worked for on day using the typical mask you buy, sort of concertina opens with a little metal strip to fold it over your nose.
You can feel your breath escaping everywhere around the edges.

Not bothered about wearing a mask in a shop..if it makes people more. comfortable, its just manners at one level in this situation.

The problem is they are mostly inneffective and give the false security to make people talk close in your face.
That was the original guidance of health studies, but now its wrap a scarf around your head and carry on.
There is small scale studies based almost on anectdotal that people are spreading it less when using masks....strange how this is suddenly a thing, I mean have masks and their effectivness been some impossible science until now.

 

[dysfunction]

I worked for on day using the typical mask you buy, sort of concertina opens with a little metal strip to fold it over your nose.
You can feel your breath escaping everywhere around the edges.

Not bothered about wearing a mask in a shop..if it makes people more. comfortable, its just manners at one level in this situation.

The problem is they are mostly inneffective and give the false security to make people talk close in your face.
That was the original guidance of health studies, but now its wrap a scarf around your head and carry on.
There is small scale studies based almost on anectdotal that people are spreading it less when using masks....strange how this is suddenly a thing, I mean have masks and their effectivness been some impossible science until now.

Where else is the air supposed to go? Magically go away or absorbed into the mask material?

 

[Scouse]

Where else is the air supposed to go? Magically go away or absorbed into the mask material?

Same shit that Bodhi posted and ignoring the guidance already posted.

1) "silly" people want it to be 100% effective
2) scarves have specifically been ruled out. High thread count cotton, multi layered but non-surgical masks.

I think he just gets a kick out being contrary - and very specifically contrary - otherwise he wouldn't have the posting pattern he does.

 

[Bodhi]

Where else is the air supposed to go? Magically go away or absorbed into the mask material?

Unless the air is virus free it kinds of defeats the object.

 

[Scouse]

Unless the air is virus free it kinds of defeats the object.

Silly silly boy. Reduction of risk. Not elimanation of risk.

When you talk you emit spit. Forwards.

When you talk through a barrier the bigger globules get stopped.

Risk reduced. Not stopped. Reduced.

It's struggling to sink in with you isn't it. You silly, silly baby-out-with-the-bathwater boy.

 

[Job]

I accept that they are effective as far as you can obviously see...but if they are to be mandatory then they need to double down on the downsides and highlight the methods for ensuring safe mask wearing.
Not leave it to newspaper journalists and youtubers.

Most people will wear the same mask and stuff it in their pocket or leave it on the car seat and a moist mask is virus paradise.

 

[Bodhi]

Silly silly boy. Reduction of risk. Not elimanation of risk.

When you talk you emit spit. Forwards.

When you talk through a barrier the bigger globules get stopped.

Risk reduced. Not stopped. Reduced.

It's struggling to sink in with you isn't it. You silly, silly baby-out-with-the-bathwater boy.

Yes they end up soaked in the mask, and then when you breathe out get turned into aerosols and you infect everyone anyway. Awesome work!

Unless of course you get one of the vented ones Rishi was wearing to go to Pret yesterday, which cunningly directs all the bugs straight out the front.

If it was single use medical masks to be deposited in a bin on the way out, the benefits would probably outweigh the imposition and utterly dystopian era of only being able to see people's eyes we're about to usher in for the 50% reduction they offer.

But a sweaty, CO2 filled infection vector in return for a 3% reduction? Considering I've been shopping 2 or 3 times a week since this all kicked off without a mask, seems a bit silly to be doing it now only 0.025% of the population are infected (as per ONS). If you want to talk risks, you're probably more likely to crash your car on the way to the supermarket than catch the Rona when you're there at this point.

 

[Scouse]

Lol "CO2 filled" infection vector!

How does breathing out "fill" a mask with CO2? I mean more than your lungs?

Rishi being a twat doesn't make them all ineffective. Aerosols floating out the side of a mask are much less of a vector than globules being spewed in front of you.

But I'm still chuckling about what you've got against CO2, considering it's necessary for lots of metabolic processes...

 

[Raven]

Were at this level of stupid now.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaFSH0K4BdQ

 

[Bodhi]

But I'm still chuckling about what you've got against CO2, considering it's necessary for lots of metabolic processes...

And I'll remind you of that the next time you start wanking on about too much CO2 in the air. After all, it's necessary for lots of metabolic processes

 

[Scouse]

And I'll remind you of that the next time you start wanking on about too much CO2 in the air. After all, it's necessary for lots of metabolic processes

I thought you'd be glib with global warming instead of addressing why you think it's a problem in face masks.

 

[Wij]

Russian state-sponsored hackers target Covid-19 vaccine researchers

UK National Cyber Security Centre says drug firms and research groups being targeted by group known as APT29

www.theguardian.com