Politics Coronavirus

Deebs

Deebs

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@Yoni Not just BA but most other airlines in the UK are laying staff off.

BA are being wankers though threatening to lay all staff off and rehiring them under new contracts if they don't accept changes to their current contracts.
 
Scouse

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Scouse

Scouse

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Bodhi said:
France, Ireland, Norway and Denmark have all said that they aren't locking down again, so not sure why you still have so much enthusiasm for the 60 day free trial of communism we're just finishing.

Ah, that's why.
Click to expand...
I never had enthusiasm for it - and certainly less so since the way it's been managed.

If they had done what they had been told to prepare for years ago - very fast lockdown, test test test, then we would already be back on our feet and raring to go - with a lot less death.

Shorter lockdown? Win.
Less death? Win.
Back to work already - like most of my European colleagues (and other places in the world, had two calls today with colleagues from Hong Kong who were actually in the office) - Win!

Britain?
Slow to react
No testing
Loads of death
Poor messaging
Long tail with an R rate that isn't coming down fast enough.
Jobs going to the wall. (I suspect I'll be one before long).


So, not enthused at all, no. Less so since it's been completely mishandled and we've the second highest death rate on the planet. And yet people are still queuing up to suck tory cock and say "you've done a good job there in difficult circumstances" when it's clear they've done one of the worst jobs on the planet.
 
Moriath

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Deebs said:
The demonstrations and the beachgoers threw the baby out with the bathwater. That is the point.

Even if Johnson said lockdown is going to be extended for 2 weeks due to the twats that defied lockdown over the past few weeks I doubt anyone would listen now, the damage has been done, people will just say the infection rate is not rising. Many things could have been done better but the demonstrations have certainly not helped one bit, in fact the opposite.

I am also going to say that the Police have some blame to be attributed to them, don't think I saw any wearing any form of PPE and a riot helmet does not count.
Click to expand...
Police were not given ppe to wear from the government.
 
Bodhi

Bodhi

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Scouse said:
I never had enthusiasm for it - and certainly less so since the way it's been managed.

If they had done what they had been told to prepare for years ago - very fast lockdown, test test test, then we would already be back on our feet and raring to go - with a lot less death.

Shorter lockdown? Win.
Less death? Win.
Back to work already - like most of my European colleagues (and other places in the world, had two calls today with colleagues from Hong Kong who were actually in the office) - Win!

Britain?
Slow to react
No testing
Loads of death
Poor messaging
Long tail with an R rate that isn't coming down fast enough.
Jobs going to the wall. (I suspect I'll be one before long).


So, not enthused at all, no. Less so since it's been completely mishandled and we've the second highest death rate on the planet. And yet people are still queuing up to suck tory cock and say "you've done a good job there in difficult circumstances" when it's clear they've done one of the worst jobs on the planet.
Click to expand...

But Tory cock gets rid of the foul taste of cigarettes?

Anyway -

Slow to react - despite Ferguson's best attempts at a bit of historical revisionism it looks as if we took action exactly when SAGE suggested we did, so not entirely sure how you can blame the politicians for that one - unless you think they should have gone against expert advice?
Testing Slow to Ramp Up - yep, agree. That one's on Public Health England.
Loads of Death - excess deaths do look quite high at this point, however the only policy decision I can see that relates to is around care homes. Considering how far behind most European Nations version of the ONS are, I'd suggest we wait a while on that one.
Poor messaging - it made sense to me, but then I'm not a dribbling idiot. Maybe there's something you'd like to share with the group around your dribbling habits?
Long Tail.... - other than getting you an awesome score in a game of Epidemiological Buzzword Bingo I'm not sure what your point here is. The R rate will always jump around all over the place when you have low infections as we do now, ratios tend to do that.
Jobs going to the wall - yep, so get out and do some shopping. I assume shops have reached Wales now?

However given how often you've gone on about Tory scum mishandling the pandemic, I'm assuming that means you have someone in mind that could have done a better job? Consider the options on the ballot form when framing your answer, and take all the time you need.
 
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And next weekend 10s of thousands of Trump supporters are going to descend upon Tulsa from all over the country. Once there they'll all spend several hours in close proximity to each other at an indoor rally before heading back home. After the Trump campaign makes them all sign something saying they can't sue if they catch the virus. No wonder the health director in Tulsa is pleading with the Trump campaign to postpone the rally.
 
Scouse

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In-line @Bodhi:

Slow to react - despite Ferguson's best attempts at a bit of historical revisionism it looks as if we took action exactly when SAGE suggested we did, so not entirely sure how you can blame the politicians for that one - unless you think they should have gone against expert advice?
1) Turns out SAGE wasn't independent under the tories - Cummings was sat on the meetings - which is a class-A no-no for impartial scientific advice.
2) Who knows what the advice was - it's just guesswork
3) Who cares what the advice was - the argument has always been: We. Should. Have. Been. Prepared.

Testing Slow to Ramp Up - yep, agree. That one's on Public Health England.
Been through that and evidenced it (but hang on to it) - it wasn't PHE's job to secure funding for pandemic testing kits and prepare a multi-agency response to a global pandemic. That falls on central government - and a Tory party that's been in power for a decade, yet de-funded these programmes and actually called a halt to pandemic planning last year.

Loads of Death - excess deaths do look quite high at this point, however the only policy decision I can see that relates to is around care homes. Considering how far behind most European Nations version of the ONS are, I'd suggest we wait a while on that one
Utter bullshit. It's been the bloodbath and shitshow that was predicted when lockdowns and "test test test" doesn't happen straight away.
"Quite high" is 60,000 excess deaths eh? What a cunt. :rolleyes:

Poor messaging - it made sense to me, but then I'm not a dribbling idiot. Maybe there's something you'd like to share with the group around your dribbling habits?
Was working OK until they failed in their primary duty to ensure Cummings was sacked - effective lockdown pretty much ended in England on that day. That was the message they needed to send.

Long Tail.... - other than getting you an awesome score in a game of Epidemiological Buzzword Bingo I'm not sure what your point here is. The R rate will always jump around all over the place when you have low infections as we do now, ratios tend to do that.
The R rate shouldn't be betwee 0.7 and 1 at this point - it should be far lower at this point - and would have been if we'd prepared, locked down and test test test-ed as the WHO recommended a decade ago. We'd all be out and about now - but the sheer amount of cases has an effect on how long the whole shebang takes to recover from.

Jobs going to the wall - yep, so get out and do some shopping. I assume shops have reached Wales now?
If we'd prepared and test-test-tested then as many jobs wouldn't have to be saved, the economic consequences wouldn't be anywhere near so bad - all down to wank preparations and botched handling.

I'd be glib and make a joke about the upside of this being that those people dumb enough to go shopping are the ones that are going to contract the virus - but it's shit because they'll spread it to totally innocent people.


My bosses' dad died of coronavirus a couple of weeks ago. One of Tam's reports lost her dad in a home, but couldn't go see him because she cares for her mum, and then lost her uncle a week later.

This isn't just some pissing match on the internet - it's life-or-death stuff. And the Tory party are culpable for a DECADE of mis-management.

  • This pandemic was predicted.
  • A plan for governments to enact was drawn up - all they had to do was pull the trigger.
  • OUR GOVERNMENT DIDN'T FUCKING DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

Being the incumbent government, who's primary job is to keep us safe, that makes the Conservative Party culpable. Full stop.
 
Job

Job

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The wife and I had the virus swab test, just pointless, you do it yourself while being handed the equipment by 17yr olds.
The instructions are ambiguos with poor procedure flow and keep going off topic.
Everything is fiddly and contamination of the swab is inevitable.
It wont fricking break off at the right length, there isnt enough barcodes, they dont rip off the sheet properly.
Self swabbing your tonsils for 15s is impossible without vomiting, the nasal instructions are useless.
Most people are not going to go anywhere far enough.
A txt result within 48hrs...its been a week...nothing
 
dysfunction

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Job said:
The wife and I had the virus swab test, just pointless, you do it yourself while being handed the equipment by 17yr olds.
The instructions are ambiguos with poor procedure flow and keep going off topic.
Everything is fiddly and contamination of the swab is inevitable.
It wont fricking break off at the right length, there isnt enough barcodes, they dont rip off the sheet properly.
Self swabbing your tonsils for 15s is impossible without vomiting, the nasal instructions are useless.
Most people are not going to go anywhere far enough.
A txt result within 48hrs...its been a week...nothing
Click to expand...

more like you can't follow simple instructions from someone younger than you
 
Scouse

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Should have heard though.

Although he probably gave the wrong number.

A mate went. Said it was fine. Is clear.
 
Bodhi

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Scouse said:
In-line @Bodhi:

Slow to react - despite Ferguson's best attempts at a bit of historical revisionism it looks as if we took action exactly when SAGE suggested we did, so not entirely sure how you can blame the politicians for that one - unless you think they should have gone against expert advice?
1) Turns out SAGE wasn't independent under the tories - Cummings was sat on the meetings - which is a class-A no-no for impartial scientific advice.
2) Who knows what the advice was - it's just guesswork
3) Who cares what the advice was - the argument has always been: We. Should. Have. Been. Prepared.

Testing Slow to Ramp Up - yep, agree. That one's on Public Health England.
Been through that and evidenced it (but hang on to it) - it wasn't PHE's job to secure funding for pandemic testing kits and prepare a multi-agency response to a global pandemic. That falls on central government - and a Tory party that's been in power for a decade, yet de-funded these programmes and actually called a halt to pandemic planning last year.

Loads of Death - excess deaths do look quite high at this point, however the only policy decision I can see that relates to is around care homes. Considering how far behind most European Nations version of the ONS are, I'd suggest we wait a while on that one
Utter bullshit. It's been the bloodbath and shitshow that was predicted when lockdowns and "test test test" doesn't happen straight away.
"Quite high" is 60,000 excess deaths eh? What a cunt. :rolleyes:

Poor messaging - it made sense to me, but then I'm not a dribbling idiot. Maybe there's something you'd like to share with the group around your dribbling habits?
Was working OK until they failed in their primary duty to ensure Cummings was sacked - effective lockdown pretty much ended in England on that day. That was the message they needed to send.

Long Tail.... - other than getting you an awesome score in a game of Epidemiological Buzzword Bingo I'm not sure what your point here is. The R rate will always jump around all over the place when you have low infections as we do now, ratios tend to do that.
The R rate shouldn't be betwee 0.7 and 1 at this point - it should be far lower at this point - and would have been if we'd prepared, locked down and test test test-ed as the WHO recommended a decade ago. We'd all be out and about now - but the sheer amount of cases has an effect on how long the whole shebang takes to recover from.

Jobs going to the wall - yep, so get out and do some shopping. I assume shops have reached Wales now?
If we'd prepared and test-test-tested then as many jobs wouldn't have to be saved, the economic consequences wouldn't be anywhere near so bad - all down to wank preparations and botched handling.

I'd be glib and make a joke about the upside of this being that those people dumb enough to go shopping are the ones that are going to contract the virus - but it's shit because they'll spread it to totally innocent people.


My bosses' dad died of coronavirus a couple of weeks ago. One of Tam's reports lost her dad in a home, but couldn't go see him because she cares for her mum, and then lost her uncle a week later.

This isn't just some pissing match on the internet - it's life-or-death stuff. And the Tory party are culpable for a DECADE of mis-management.

  • This pandemic was predicted.
  • A plan for governments to enact was drawn up - all they had to do was pull the trigger.
  • OUR GOVERNMENT DIDN'T FUCKING DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

Being the incumbent government, who's primary job is to keep us safe, that makes the Conservative Party culpable. Full stop.
Click to expand...

I got about 3 lines into your post before I figured out you really don't have a clue about any of this, do you? It's just the ramblings of demented person trapped on a hill in Wales, yelling at clouds.

"Who knows what the advice was?" - anyone who can use Google and type in "SAGE Minutes" - Government publishes SAGE minutes all online for you to review. Feel free to do so and point out where our response differed from the scientific advice at the time.

"Who cares what the advice was?" - I'd say it's pretty fucking important when you're trying to evaluate if it was followed or not.

"But we didn't prepare"!"!"!" - As I keep pointing out, according to the GHS Index we were the 2nd best country in the world for preparedness - Ranked: Global Pandemic Preparedness by Country so I'm intrigued where you get this idea we weren't prepared from. We clearly were, the only issue was our plan (much like everyone else in Europe/US) was based around flu. I'll happily admit - as had Boris - that we didn't learn as much as we should have from SARS, but to say we weren't prepared is actually bullshit.

Also good to see you still haven't a clue on PHE's relationship with central government. DHSC can replace the Chief Exec, but apart from that they are fully autonomous with an increasing budget year on year. Considering how much their Chief Exec is on I don't think we should be so quick to excuse their catastrophic fuck ups in this around testing. To give PHE credit at least they eventually increased testing capacity to a useful level, the Public Health bodies in Wales and Scotland are still scratching their arses from what I can tell.

Yes, 60,000 excess deaths is quite high. Slightly above the number for excess winter deaths for 2017/2018 (50,000) and around the level of a bad flu season - but it will be interesting to see over EWD for 2019/2020. Apart from a small blip in January (the first wave of COVID) excess mortality was running at around zero when CV hit, and is trending below zero currently, so let's see where we end up.

Cummings - not sure how he made it to Durham as he's clearly living rent free in your head, but the lockdown was fraying long before that story came out. Hence why it was delayed as long as possible, as it only ever had a finite lifespan before people got bored. However none of the other ministers who got caught flouting lockdown were sacked (Kinnock, Blackford etc), in fact the only resignation was Ferguson's, however I'm sure you can get the difference between child care and getting jiggy with your mistress. You also have to wonder why, considering the Cumming story was of such key public interest, the Mirror sat on it for a month before publishing?

If you want to know why we got hit so hard, there are lots of reasons from a highly mobile yet not entirely healthy population, the perfect climate for CV transmission (5 - 15 degrees and high humidity), a botched care home response, very liberal definition of a COVID death (my wife's cousin passed away last month due to an inoperable brain tumour, but you can guess what went on the death certificate), widespread Vitamin D deficiencies, a global transport hub just outside London, and two remarkably mild flu seasons in the preceding winters. None of which really sells papers apart from the care home response.
 
Scouse

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*sigh* I get it @Bodhi - you think it's a nothing disease and nowt is going to dissuage you of that notion. Meh. We'll agree to disagree.

The one thing I'd say is that global pandemic preparedness is about the overall health of our medical system and it's ability to respond to crisis - and the NHS is great in general. But you're wilfully ignoring the point that the UK was unprepared for a pandemic of this specific nature - in terms of PPE availability and the ability to test and contact trace - and those two specific things are part of what we were asked to prepare for by the WHO.

Those two critical things we didn't have ready and it's cost us both lives and a prolonged lockdown of our freedoms and the economic damage that goes with that.

You can blame PHE all you like - and lets, for argument's sake, say yes - it's all PHE's fault.

Who fucking setup that quango?

Oh yes. The tories. The government.


I run an IT portfolio across Continental Europe. There's a number of contributing bodies who are responsible for doing the work. But I'm accountable for ensuring that their work is done well and to a high standard.

I govern. It's MY fault when shit doesn't go right.
 
Last edited:
Job

Job

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Im not sure what to take from this except BAME are twice as likely to die after contracting covid, the list of possible racist reasons dont seem to accurately address why, this cant be totally..they dont trust us , so wont go to the doctors.

Anyway its all our fault as usual, or just the Guard spin on it.
www.theguardian.com

Historical racism may be behind England's higher BAME Covid-19 rate

Calls grow for UK government to act as delayed report says ethnic minorites less likely to seek help or raise concerns
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Embattle

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We took part in the ONS Covid survey yesterday, talk about gagging when you stick that cotton bud to the back of your throat then getting watery eyes when you stick it up your nose. Got to do it again next week.
 
C

caLLous

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www.standard.co.uk

UK virus response ranked second worst among world's richest countries

The UK was today ranked second bottom in a league table of how well the world’s richest nations responded to the coronavirus pandemic.
www.standard.co.uk www.standard.co.uk
“Overall, the countries that managed the pandemic the better all reacted early and swiftly, as New Zealand did, for instance. Not all of them introduced stringent lockdowns, but all implemented aggressive testing and tracing programmes, which were among the most crucial factors to contain the pandemic.

“The countries that rank at the bottom of our index either did not have time to prepare for the pandemic (Spain, Italy) or made dubious policy choices to combat the pandemic. For instance, an insufficiently fast and co-ordinated response, an initial lack of testing capacity, and a decision to suspend track and trace in early March explain why the UK became an outlier."
Click to expand...
 
Job

Job

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Bit early really in the 'race' tbh.
 
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